Wanderfound

All cool. Thanks for the entry. Gonna have a go at the Formula One class as well?

Trying to get another air-racing challenge going: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/107682-Kerbodyne-Touch-Go-Racing-League Plenty of stock fliers, could use some competition on the FAR side.

This one is simple: take off from KSC, fly to the island runway, do a touch & go (i.e. wheels must hit the runway but the plane doesn't need to stop) and come back to land at KSC. Post screenshots of your flight, particularly including the start, the touch & go on the island, and the plane stationary on the runway at the end. Make sure that the elapsed time is visible in all three, and feel free to post extra images narrating the flight. There are going to be four divisions: FAR/NEAR Formula One, Stock Aero Formula One, FAR/NEAR Open Class, Stock Aero Open Class. If you're flying in FAR, you must keep aero failures turned on. Physics-altering mods apart from FAR/NEAR are not permitted, but normal flight aids (Kerbal Flight Indicators, PID tuners, etc) are fine. If in doubt, ask. The idea is to find to the best racing pilots and planes, not the canniest game exploit. -- The Formula One class is a pure test of piloting skill. In order to give a level playing field, all pilots will fly the same plane. You are allowed to adjust the control surface tweakables (control only, not the mass tweakable), but no other changes can be made to the plane. This is the FAR/NEAR plane: Craft file for FAR/NEAR at https://www.dropbox.com/s/95mathcq1i9o485/Kerboracer.craft?dl=0 And this is the stock version: Craft file for Stock aero at https://www.dropbox.com/s/qitpft98cmzajlw/Kerboracer%20Stock.craft?dl=0 -- In the open classes, you bring your own plane. The only limitations are: * Must be a piloted, winged HOTOL aircraft. * No non-stock engines permitted (magic overpowered thrusters ruin the competition, and there's no reasonable way to go through and check every modpack for balance). Alternate cockpits, procedural wings, etc. are all fine though. * No rockets; therefore, no RAPIERs. No monoprop engines, RCS or Vernors either. Air-breathing thrust only. * Drag chutes provide a huge advantage, negating the need for aerobatic braking. They're allowed, but chute-assisted craft have a separate leaderboard to non-chute planes. -- See http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/craigmotbey/Kerbal/Challenges/Kerbodyne%20Air%20Race/Demo%20Run/story for the obligatory demonstration run in the FAR/NEAR Formula One class. -- Leaderboards Race 1 FAR/NEAR Formula One Zarakon, 3 minutes 43 seconds Zarakon, 3 minutes 55 seconds (NEAR) Wanderfound, 5 minutes 26 seconds Stock Aero Formula One Zarakon, 5 minutes 14 seconds hoioh, 5 minutes 21 seconds (partially fuelled) Merandix, 5 minutes 49 seconds Volcanix, 6 minutes 47 seconds FAR/NEAR Open Class Zarakon, 3 minutes 3 seconds Zarakon, 3 minutes 29 seconds Wanderfound, 4 minutes 19 seconds Stock Aero Open Class Right, 2 minutes 42 seconds Zaracon, 2 minutes 56 seconds Merandix, 3 minutes 19 seconds Volcanix, 3 minutes 41 seconds Merandix, 3 minutes 55 seconds Merandix, 3 minutes 58 seconds hoioh, 4 minutes 3 seconds Captain Vlad, 4 minutes 5 seconds Merandix, 4 minutes 11 seconds ValCab33, 4 minutes 11 seconds Starhawk, 4 minutes 13 seconds Captain Vlad, 4 minutes 34 seconds (slightly missed island runway) ValCab33, 4 minutes 44 seconds Captain Vlad, 4 minutes 48 seconds Merandix, 4 minutes 53 seconds hoioh, 5 minutes 8 seconds Captain Sierra, 5 minutes 16 seconds Volcanix, 5 minutes 47 seconds Sewerbird, 6 minutes 38 seconds (rocket assisted) Chute Assisted FAR Open Class Wanderfound, 4 minutes 7 seconds. Stock Open Class hoioh, 4 minutes 21 seconds VincentS, 4 minutes 38 seconds hoioh, 4 minutes 52 seconds VincentS, 5 minutes flat Captain Sierra, 5 minutes flat Race 2 For the race 2 route, see http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/107682-Kerbodyne-Touch-Go-Racing-League?p=1679351&viewfull=1#post1679351 To explain the difference between 2a and 2b, see http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/107682-Kerbodyne-Touch-Go-Racing-League?p=1679421&viewfull=1#post1679421 Race 2a (scenic route) FAR/NEAR Formula One Stock Aero Formula One FAR/NEAR Open Class Stock Aero Open Class Merandix, 5 minutes 9 seconds Race 2b (extra-challenge route) FAR/NEAR Formula One Stock Aero Formula One Merandix, 6 minutes 33 second hoioh, 7 minutes 51 seconds FAR/NEAR Open Class Zarakon, 4 minutes 29 seconds Wanderfound, 5 minutes 41 seconds Stock Aero Open Class Merandix, 5 minutes 7 seconds

Is there something wrong with my install, or am I just being really stupid? When I go into the DRE menu via the toolbar, this is all I see: What am I missing?

Post a go with your own if you'd like, but for comparable results you'd need identical aircraft. And it's a bit too easy to build some ultra-micro overpowered thing that can just flip on its tail and rocket back the other direction, so I didn't think it would be too interesting as a design challenge. - - - Updated - - - Are you flying in stock or FAR? As you can see here: ...it should take off with minimal effort at around 120m/s. You do need to let it get up to that speed before pulling the stick back, though; the drag from the stalling tailplane will interfere with your takeoff run if you don't. However, that is in FAR; if you're flying in stock, the absence of the FAR mass tweakable is going to substantially unbalance it, and as stated above it may not work at all. If that's the case, if a stock flyer wants to throw together a stock equivalent test plane, they'd be welcome to do so. - - - Updated - - - Okay: just to make sure that there wasn't any problem with the plane, I did another run, this time with more detailed coverage of the takeoff process: http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/craigmotbey/Kerbal/Challenges/Loop%20and%20Land/Second/story Still flying fine, as far as I can see. - - - Updated - - - I just set up a stock aero install to test, and as suspected, the FAR plane has problems in stock. CoL too far back and control surfaces set to influence all axes, allowing the wings to negate the elevators. Almost unflyable in stock air. So I built a stock aero version. Takes off easy: No trouble with the necessary aerobatics: See https://www.dropbox.com/s/su6ummix7jg389v/Kerbotrainer%20Stock.craft?dl=0 for the craft file.

You also need to configure the control surfaces that you want to move as spoilers via the right-click tweakables. Having an action group to activate a spoiler won't do anything if the control surface hasn't been told that it's a spoiler.

Updated mods list, still a work in progress: AKI's Modified IVA Antenna Range ALCOR landing capsule + ASET props Aviation Lights Better Buoyancy Chatterer Contracts Window + Distant Object Enhancement Enhanced Navball Environmental Visual Enhancements FAR Firespitter (dll only) Goodspeed Hyomoto's MFD Raster Prop Monitor Kerbal Attachment System Kerbal Flight Data Kerbal Flight Indicators Kerbal Science Foundation's Mk3 Cockpit internal Hyperedit Kerbinside/Kerbal Konstructs (all of it) Kronal Vessel Viewer Infernal Robotics Mechjeb (w/FAR plugin and Mechjeb Embedded) Final Frontier Kerbal Pilot Assistant Planetshine RCS Build Aid Realchute Retro Future Sane Strategies Scansat Stage Recovery Station Science Stock Bug Fix TAC-LS Kerbal Alarm Clock Wernher Checker B9 got tried and dropped (just too many parts, I'm not sure about the game balance even if I slim it down, and they don't fit well with Mk2 stuff). Active Texture Management was tried at both Basic and Aggressive before I realised that I didn't need it (so there was no reason to put up with fuzzy textures). Retro Future has very nice parts (and fantastic landing gear), but again, I'm uncertain if I'll keep it due to part clutter and game balance reasons. You might be seeing some good medium-size Retro Future stuff with an Aliens-esque aesthetic coming out, however. I just don't like part packs much. It's not an objection to the parts themselves, it's just that it always feels a bit cheaty to me. Although that will likely change if Squad introduces an easy "show/hide parts from mod X" toggle. I haven't put in the Mk4/OPT spaceplane systems yet. I don't much enjoy building super-heavy ships; they're not as much fun for me as smaller, more agile things. So, if I'm going to the effort of doing one, I'd rather make it with parts that as many people as possible can use. Some nicer-looking stock Mk3 cockpits would be appreciated from Squad, though. Last time I tried Procedural Wings, I found them a bit buggy and irritating to configure. If Bac9 has made 'em nicer, I'll likely give it another try. Still, again there's the "stock parts = bigger market" factor to consider. Thanks for all the suggestions, folks.

The advanced part menus were a good idea, but I don't think Squad got the implementation right, unfortunately. The UI is horrible (hidden menus with small and obscure icons, yay). Every time I try to use them, I end up getting frustrated and going back to the standard menus. What we really need is to make the parts list searchable by name, and to get some "show/hide all parts from mod X" options.

Yes, that's exactly what I was saying. The rocket in question apparently has a launch TWR of more than three; therefore, it very likely has much bigger engines than necessary. And rockets with a rearwards weight bias tend to be more unstable than those that don't, due to decreased CoM/CoL offset.

Check your CoM/CoL markers, especially after you empty the upper fuel tanks. You may be getting a weightshift reversal (i.e. CoL in front of CoM) on 'em as your fuel consumption moves CoM. Excessive TWR usually implies extra engine mass at the base of the ship, pulling the CoM towards increased instability. Either pumping some fuel upwards/forwards during flight or sticking some more fins on the base would likely sort it.

A quick little piloting challenge: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/107547-The-Kerbodyne-Loop-Land-Sprint

This is a pure piloting challenge, which should also work as a good aerobatics and landing trainer. To do it, you'll need the basic FAR jet shown below. The craft file is at https://www.dropbox.com/s/eqo5b7v5ef89g8s/Kerbotrainer.craft?dl=0 for the FAR/NEAR plane, and https://www.dropbox.com/s/su6ummix7jg389v/Kerbotrainer%20Stock.craft?dl=0 for a stock aero version. It's very quick and simple: just take off from KSC, fly out over the beach far enough to get a crew report over water (not "shores"), then turn around however you like and land back on the runway at KSC. Fastest time wins; post screenshots of your crew report and your ship stationary on the runway with elapsed time visible, plus whatever other images you feel like. The plane is set up with the following action groups: 1: Turbojet 2: Fuselage intake 3: Structural intakes 0: Crew report It's built for FAR, and I have no idea if it will even fly in stock, but if anyone wants to try it in the soon-to-be-extinct soupmosphere, they're welcome to try (edit: stock aero version now added). Piloting data and visualisation aids (e.g. Kerbal Flight Indicators) are fine, full autopilots (e.g. Mechjeb or Kerbal Pilot Assistant in autopilot modes) are not. Using Kerbal Pilot Assistant just as a PID tuner is fine. No other non-cosmetic mods allowed; no time slowing, gravity hacks, etc. etc. If you're not sure about a mod, ask. Take off at whatever speed you like. Don't bother trying to spool the engines up; the turbojet will overpower the wheel brakes almost immediately. You may wish to cut throttle fairly early; however, it's up to you. Crew report (action group 0) over water. Make sure that you're far enough out for the biome to change; "shores" continues for a fair distance. Horizontal loop or Immelmann, conventional or inverted; your choice. Spinny spinny. And back down. Dropping like a rock. But leveled out easy enough. The plane can take substantial G's, although it is possible to break it if you try very hard. The plane has adequate brakes, but not excessive, so you want to get onto the runway as early as possible. Ta-da! 2 minutes 10 seconds. With room to spare. Leaderboard Stock Aero Zarakon, 1:11 Merandix 1:31 FAR/NEAR Wanderfound 2:09

Hardpoints are nicely solid.

Thank you.

So long as they're placed behind CoM, opposed spoilers or flaps [1] should not destabilise the plane, especially at subsonic speeds. But they do move CoL around, so it's wise to toggle them on in the SPH and look at the stability numbers. However, the fastest and most effective way to slow down does not require any aircraft design tricks. The best way to slow is with S-turns; bank steeply and yaw/pitch the nose around until you've made a 90° turn, then do the same thing for a 180° turn back the other way, and repeat alternating 180° turns until you've slowed sufficiently. You can wash off a lot of speed very quickly by doing this. [1] To clarify for some commenters: in the real world, assuming placement behind CoM, flaps deflect down (more drag, more lift) and spoilers deflect up (more drag, less lift). In FAR, both spoilers and flaps can be set to deflect in either direction, although the same surface can't go both ways. The difference is that spoilers toggle 100% on or off with a single action group, whereas flaps move on a four-point gradient with increased and decreased deflections controlled by separate action groups. Same results as real-world, but different use of names.

Having some fun with Retro Future amongst other mods... The Kerbodyne Nostalgia​. Test flight at http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/craigmotbey/Kerbal/Beta/Kerbodyne%20Showroom/Nostalgia/story Alternate format at http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/craigmotbey/slideshow/Kerbal/Beta/Kerbodyne%20Showroom/Nostalgia Craft file at https://www.dropbox.com/s/ld2uemm3mli2myk/Kerbodyne%20Nostalgia.craft?dl=0

Are these mid-wing or tailplane spoilers? Too far forward and you'll unbalance things. You can set spoilers on in the FAR analysis screens to check.

It's not intended to be a perfect Lightning replica (I was just messing about with vertical fuselages and low-set wings to see what would work), and it ain't lacking for lift: More wing would just weigh it down and slow the roll rate.

10/10. Lego for the win. Ninj'd!

Build things. Test fly them. Make sure that they do what they're intended to do, and do it well. Take screenshots demonstrating how to use them while you're test flying. Convert the screenshots into a low-bandwidth format (e.g. hi-res JPEG) and edit them down to no more than thirty or so per ship (and often much less; no more than is necessary to tell the story). Either put them in your own thread with spoiler tags for tidyness, or just give one or two pics and a link to the full story at an image site. Caption the pics to explain what you're doing and why. Throw in some F2 arty shots as well (leave these as .png's). Listen to feedback and act on it. If you want, invite others to join you in submitting to the thread, or to help you out with design difficulties. And, most importantly, have fun.

The vertical fuselage Lightning knockoff is remarkably stable under extreme duress: Quick, too:

Blizzy's already there, that's so standard I forget it's a mod. I'd like it if everything integrated into the stock toolbar, though. Last time I used Improved Chase Cam I found it had an annoying habit of turning itself on when I didn't want it (in orbit etc). Does it still do that? Anyone know how to stop Active Texture Management from blacking out the FAR toolbar icon?

This is for FAR, and may use some tech you don't yet have, but the basic principles illustrated should apply just as well in stock without too much tech. Annotated demonstration at http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/craigmotbey/Kerbal/Beta/Kerbodyne%20Showroom/Satshot/story TLDR version: launch directly into the required plane on a big SRB, top the SRB with an ultralight satellite that can draw a few thousand ÃŽâ€V and ridiculous TWR from a tiny engine and fuel tank.

Coefficient of Drag.

Most of it has already been covered; when you hit the runway you should be flying at just above stall speed. Use S-turns, stall-climbs and such to bleed off speed in the air. And try to hit the runway at the start of it, not halfway down: See the yellow circle on the end of the runway? Kerbal Flight Indicators. However, on the point of retrothrusters: with monoprop engines or Vernors, it's easy to make them weightless and pretty much invisible. For example... Retrothrusters turned on so you can see 'em: Retrothrusters off (look for,the nozzles at the front of the canards): They're unnecessary on most ships, but they do come in handy occasionally. Especially when landing on Duna/Minmus/etc. Even without them, just using your normal RCS in translate-back (N) helps. Translate down (I) helps your wheelbrakes, too. And you can do airbrakes in FAR by setting pairs of opposed maximised spoilers: