Yemo

Whoops, will fix it in the next version, thank you very much!

SETIctt reboot was planned, than not, than again and so on. Everytime it was not planned anymore, the reason was that most of the changes (with slight alterations) made sense for UbM + CTT as well, so they were integrated into UbM. And the main difference was only the reaction wheels and fuel lines available later. Which I then released as the UbM Challenge mini mod available via ckan. Also note that stuff like mystery goo being available later were planned for SETIctt as well, so there would not be much difference there. I wanted baro and thermometer to come first, but then there would be too much science available in the early game, even with crew reports being available a bit later (though manned airplanes are possible for very little science). So one of the high yield experiments had to be pushed far back. I chose mystery goo, because materials bay (with SETIrebalance) was much more compatible with probes (0.625m diameter container & external pod). Awesome, thank you very much! I ll take a look at the whole ckan file the next time I have access to my gaming pc, based on your list! AdjustableLandingGear is really sad, that is/was such a game changer for airplane design. Even if there is only a tiny chance for it to reemerge, I ll leave it in there. Most of the others I ll have to check. Background processing is tricky, since you have to account for that in terms of battery capacity, with spreadsheats. Station Science is imho of great importance for that space station aspect of ksp, it really makes a difference there. Same goes for Anomly Surveyor contract pack. It makes exploration much more interesting. Landing on the mun for the 100th time is boring, visiting the arch is much better motivation. Imho more anomalies should be added. Should be, as far as I remember, SETIrebalance even increases the range of the biggest remote tech dish to account for OPM distances. Ah, finally being able to do rescue missions, thank you very much! Though was the issue with TAC life support fixed? Whoops, will have to investigate. Might be due to the old ksp bug when updating the tech tree just leaving a visual artefact. All? remote tech antennas are changed by SETIrebalance, from mass to energy consumption to range and so on. Stock RT values just made very little sense, eg nearly prohibiting solar panel based probe comms from jool, because of the massively unrealistic energy requirements. Or the original remote tech masses, which made even less sense. The mass values from SETIrebalance were then later adopted by RemoteTech. Unfortunately commnet came along. And the mass balance went out the window again with the new commnet parts being used for remote tech (because remote tech does not distinguish between direct and relay antennas). Since remote tech is planned to change a lot, I simply did not feel that rebalancing the new commnet dishes for remote tech is worth the time, until that is done. I recommend simply not using the new 1.2 ksp dishes when you play with remote tech, especially when you play with SETIrebalance on top of that. As stated earlier, "CTT" + "Unmanned before Manned" + "Unmanned before Manned Challenge" via ckan is pretty close to what SETIctt would be now. Except for the procedural parts, which I will do as soon as I have a bit of rl breathing space. Interesting concept. I guess it does not work with the reaction wheel nerf from SETIrebalance? Since SETIrebalance only nerfs reaction wheels when the SETIrebalanceReactionWheels folder is detected, I could simply add the condition that the nerf does happen when this mod is detected and it should work as intended?

Hm, last I checked, it worked, but that was some time ago. Maybe TAC LifeSupport changed? I do not have access to my gaming pc at the moment, anyone else experiencing this? Nope, my ground stations were placed much earlier than the stock commnet ones and imho changing them has no real benefit, since mine cover the equatorial orbit perfectly while still leaving the poles nont covered to which provides some benefit to build eg a 2 keo sat network. Parts are moved around upon tech tree update, might be inconvenient, especially because of the stock ksp bug of displaying the old (non-functioning, purely cosmetic) tech tree position of a researched part in addition to the new one. Yeah, I asked for some help on github about creating those, especially as my parts are just resizes of existing parts, but they simply pointed me to the wiki. Not really in the mood to read through the whole wiki page for 2 simple part resizes. Planned for the future, but not a priority atm. Not planned in the foreseeable future. Best approximation at the moment is installing "Community Tech Tree", "Unmanned Before Manned" and "Unmanned Before Manned Challenge" via ckan. That combination comes pretty close to SETIctt, while providing some more up to date configs and being compatible with the mods using new nodes from the community tech tree (eg KSPIextended). I do not use part upgrades, since they mess with craft files. But reaction wheels should be available with "miniaturization" at 90 science, that node should also unlock new probe cores which have reaction wheels. @Malah's QuickSearch mod is extremely helpful for finding parts in the tech tree. @RobertJPowell: It is very nice to see some small and mission efficient rockets, which remind me of the old SETIbalanceMod instead of the stock bigger = better and rush to fuel lines!

@Sol Invictus Yep, UbM does not support procedural parts at the moment, so the tech restrictions of procedural parts itself are applied. As far as I remember, procedural parts itself starts with a min diamter of 1.25m and you need some node to go lower (miniaturization?). A bit of history: The picture is very old (2 years?), from ksp 0.90 (with the old Mk1 inline cockpit), where there was only one big SETI mod, called SETI BalanceMod. Before it was split up into parts, among them SETIcommunityTechTree and what is now SETIrebalance and SETIcontracts and some of the mini mods. Later on, a much simpler and more accessible spinoff from SETIctt was created, called Unmanned Before Manned. And then somehow UbM became the main tech tree mod, while SETIctt was not updated anymore. SETIctt retained only parts of SETI BalanceMod and UbM retained only parts of SETIctt. Procedural parts configs just did not make it yet from SETIctt into UbM, though funnily, they were the centerpiece of the original SETI BalanceMod. For posterity, the old main post for the SETI BalanceMod for ksp 0.90 is preserved as the second post of this very thread, unfortunately broken due to the forum code change and of course the kerbalstuff links are dead now. With the "Unmanned Before Manned Challenge" mini mod in addition to UbM, the progression is pretty close to SETIctt and the old SETI BalanceMod again. Will make some configs for UbM/procedural parts, for UbM 1.2.2.1.

Also remote tech is easier to configure to your taste (eg you can disable signal delay). And in remote tech you do not need a spreadsheet to calculate antenna ranges if you do not wish so.

@Sol Invictus Hm I did not play with procedural parts for a long time. But as far as I remember, those diameter restrictions were not part of SETIrebalance, but of SETIcommunityTechTree. Honestly, I do not even remember playing with procedural parts and UbM. Not sure if UbM has any configs for procedural parts. I remember that with SETIctt, there were some issues with the starting diameter, but I also remember screenshots with 0.625m procedural SRBs. So it might just be a lack of UbM configs.

should work like that, is your textfile in the gamedata folder and ends with .cfg? Look at other tech tree mods, eg UnmannedBeforeManned in my signature and just do it like they do it.

You have SETIprobeControlEnabler installed. The only purpose of that mini mod is to enable probe control regardless of remote tech connection, so that you only need a connection to transmit science.

I think the problem only became apparent with the 1.2.2.0 update, since that one uses cost to determine entryCost. But yeah, unexpected. No idea how long it takes, depends on the cycle of the ckan bot. Might take minutes, might take several hours.

For others having the same problem, the latest SETIrebalance version excludes the tac life support parts from the mm patch, so the problem does not appear with SETIrebalance anymore.

@omelaw Because the dependency CommunityResourcePack is not yet cleared for ksp 1.2.2.

Excluded the TAC parts from the module manager patch. Though the underlying problem is not on my end, this should fix it for this constellation. Should work now with the latest version of SETIrebalance. SETI Rebalance v1.2.2.1 (for KSP 1.2.x ) Workaround for TAC-LS module manager incompatible values K2 Command pod rebalanced The K2 command pod is still at the wrong tech tree position until UbM is updated. Also Unmanned Before Manned Challenge updated to 1.2.2.1, to fix issues with reaction wheels.

list of mods? or screenshot of gamedata folder and the KSP.log file

SETIrebalance does not remove anything. TAC life support uses decimal points for some part costs, which trips module manager patches (used by SETIrebalance) for those parts. For example: TacFoodContainer has cost = 357.4, trips module manager, part is not loaded TacFoodContainerLarge has cost = 2525.6, trips module manager, part is not loaded TacFoodContainerLarge375 has cost = 3788.4, trips module manager, part is not loaded TacFoodContainerSmall has cost = 56, works fine I did not know that mm has a problem with those numbers, but I can implement an exception for those parts in the next patch. I would also recommend TAC life support to change to module manager compatible values, especially if the difference is so miniscule. To prevent similar problems in the future, since TAC life support is one of those mods where compatibility with other mods is high on the list. Used module manager for ages, something new to learn every day. Thank you for the bug report!

SETIrebalance does not remove anything. TAC life support uses decimal points for some part costs, which trips module manager patches (used by SETIrebalance) for those parts. For example: TacFoodContainer has cost = 357.4, trips module manager, part is not loaded TacFoodContainerLarge has cost = 2525.6, trips module manager, part is not loaded TacFoodContainerLarge375 has cost = 3788.4, trips module manager, part is not loaded TacFoodContainerSmall has cost = 56, works fine I did not know that mm has a problem with those numbers, but I can implement an exception for those parts in the next patch. I would also recommend TAC life support to change to module manager compatible values, especially if the difference is so miniscule. To prevent similar problems in the future, since TAC life support is one of those mods where compatibility with other mods is high on the list. Used module manager for ages, something new to learn every day. Thank you for the bug report!

So, a whole lot of updates. All older versions work without issue with ksp 1.2.2, so if you are in the middle of an existing savegame, not updating is a valid option. Since most of the changes do not really benefit an existing savegame, but may lead to inconveniences. However if you start a new savegame, there is a new mini mod which brings back some of the challenge of the old SETIcommunityTechTree. I will make the official announcement and listing in the OP when the CKAN integration is done. For now, here is the manual download: Unmanned Before Manned Challenge https://github.com/Y3mo/UnmannedBeforeMannedChallenge/releases UbM required, SETIrebalance and SETIprobeParts strongly recommended no reaction wheels until 90 science, fuel lines at 550 science, later skipper engine And the main updates: Unmanned before Manned v1.2.2.0 (for KSP 1.2.x) Existing careers should stick with UbM 1.2.1.0! New separate "Unmanned Before Manned - Challenge" mini mod Link in the SETI thread, intended for new career games SETIrebalance and SETIprobeParts strongly recommended Reaction wheels first available at 90 science when UbMchallenge is installed FuelLines available at 550 science when UbMchallenge is installed Skipper engine one tech node later when UbMchallenge is installed Stability node 4 science instead of 8, for earlier jets UbM parts moved around RoverBody earlier @engineering101 Radial materials bay to basicScience (forgot this in 1.2.1.0) DockingPort Jr. to advConstruction QBE, Stayputnik, OKTO, HECS, SETIprobeSTACK 2, Advanced Inline Stabilizer to miniaturization Adv Probes to advUnmanned Except for HECS2, which goes to large probes (and might get some special treatment in the future) Large reaction wheel to precisionEngineering FlyByWire to unmannedTech ScienceBox to spaceExploration Radiators further down the tech tree, as they are initially pretty useless anyway SETI Rebalance v1.2.2.0 (for KSP 1.2.x ) Science experiment rewards set to 70% If that upsets your existing savegame balance, please go to SETIrebalance/SETI-ScienceSettings.cfg And then delete lines 37 - 41, or set an experiment reward factor you prefer You could also adjust the "ScienceGainMultiplier" in the persistent.sfs of your savegame to compensate This is somewhat offset by adding in science returns for SETIcontracts in the parallel update Entry Costs are now set to 3*costs (SETI-GeneralSettings.cfg lines 70-85), except for fuel tanks Porkjets new Mk1 pod somewhat rebalanced, other parts still not touched... RoverBody holds 600 EC instead of 120 Some minor fixes and cost adjustments SETI Contracts v1.2.2.0 (for KSP 1.2.x) Contracts provide some science again SETI ProbeParts v1.2.2.0 (for KSP 1.2.x) Part categories adjusted, thank you very much @kcs123 TweakScale support for most parts

Since kerbalism uses the tac life support resources, it would be easy to support it with minimal config changes as TAC is already supported. Unfortunately kerbalism decided to change the ratios for no real reason, so it would need a complete recheck for everything. Looks like kerbalism is designed to be incompatible with mods already supporting TAC life support on pupose.

@kcs123 Yep, I try to balance it somewhere between "normal" and "moderate" as a base setting and then manual adjustments from there for special things like ground stations, blackouts, etc. Entry costs could be activated as a money sink, since it will then cost 3 times the part costs (except for fuel tanks) to unlock. I m not sure about the level of the science experiment nerf. Imho something between 60 and 70 % would be good. Perhaps going for the 70% for now would be the safer route. The line ScienceGainModifier in the persistent.sfs can be adjusted for existing savegames to compensate for that during an existing career. I find the slower science progression to be somewhat more challenging, since it forces the player to use lesser tech to go to the further away biomes, especially when transporting lots of science experiments. But of course for an experienced player the additional challenge is hardly noticeable. I remember a video from hazard-ish not so long ago, going to eeloo and back with a 3.6 ton vessel with kerbal... As far as I know, ksp 1.2.2 broke nothing at all, as it was a nearly pure bug fix update (hooray!!). Just kopernicus and so on self-deactivating for the moment. That said, module manager is not cleared for 1.2.2 yet. As far as I can tell, nothing changed, but i m contemplating waiting with the releases until that is confirmed. SETIrebalance and SETIcontracts are ready to go. A UbM update was long planned as well, will be ready some time during the weekend. I also recieved a bug report for SETIremoteTechConfig, will check that as well. Ah, and thank you @kcs123 for the reminder about the SETIprobeParts, I noticed the battery being in the wrong category now, but forgot again. Will have to take a look at those as well. And also check/add some compatibility, specifically for real plume and tweakscale. SETIgreenhouse should be fine as is. Next on the todo list is the promised SETIremoteTechSimplified mini mod. Which simply removes the need to point remote tech dishes manually (by just converting all cone dishes to omni antennas ). Was just not rushing that as remote tech was/is changing.

It is the SETIrebalance mod. The rebalancing of the features of the Mk1 pod is a special case, independent of the general reaction wheel nerf (which can be easily opted out by removing the folder as you did). Has been this way for as long as I remember for SETIrebalance. As soon as module manager is cleared for 1.2.2, there will be an update for SETIrebalance, which partially supports Porkjets PartOverhauls, which also provides a Mk1 pod. This one will have a reaction wheel and be available one tech node later than the stock Mk1 pod.

@eupraxo: Thank you very much for your support, ksp community and patreon support dropped a lot in the last few months, happy for everyone still around! About SETIrebalance not showing up in ckan: Even when selecting "ALL", ckan does not show mods for which the dependencies are not compatible with the current version. So remote tech not being compatible at the moment hides SETIremoteTechConfig and SETIprobeControlEnabler, even from the ALL listing. The strange thing is, KSP-AVC seems to be listed under "compatible", though SETIrebalance still does not show up (the only other dependency is ModuleManager). I do not know what is going on at this time, but I changed KSP-AVC from "dependency" to "recommendation". That might fix it when the bot picks up the change. The balance mod / rebalance thing is a historical artefact, since the rebalance mod was originally called balance mod. Should only be an internal thing now. Oh, and something about starting a new career: Since there has been a ksp version update, that might be a good point in time to implement some changes: SETIcontracts gets some science payouts back. SETIrebalance reduces all experiment science to 60%, since realistically everyone installing SETIrebalance also installs Dmagic. And together with SETIcontracts getting some science payouts back, that would result in something like the OP recommended setting for normal gameplay, without touching the difficulty slider in the game options (which is unbalanced itself and more like a grindiness slider). For existing savegames, I ll provide the exact locations of the science change in the patchnotes, so that it can be altered/removed with a few clicks. Those 2 updates will be released later today.

Pathfinder is a station building mod supporting TAC, and not as overly complex as the recent MKS. Oh, and SETIgreenhouse is more like a food recycler for TAC, like the other resource recyclers included in TAC itself. Not for fully self sustaining bases, just streching it for space stations and long range missions.

These are the TAC life support values (entries for humans for reference and kerbals for ingame application): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DkWf210viRSNcV8tvDv30vZ_iACj6GeY1Lf_4JdZYds/edit#gid=0 Note that nearly all 3rd party containers and converters regarding these three resources were balanced with those tac values and ratios in mind. Containers holding all three resources have them in amounts giving the same endurance (eg enough food, water, oxygen for 100 days) for those ratios. Many converters were balanced to support multiples of 1 kerbal (or 1.02 to be exact). Those configs have been around for years. Question to you: Is it more important for you to have nearly out of the box compatibility with a multitude of mods, or are your specific values more important to you, breaking other mods values in the process? From what I can see, your values are not too far off from TAC spreadsheat values for humans, except for the water consumption. TAC (human reference per earth day) TAC kerbals per kerbin day Kerbalism Food 1.644 0.10275125 1.77 Water 3.8666 0.2416625 2.42 Oxygen 0.835 0.0521875 0.84

Hm, that would work depending on implementation. Interestingly, a similar problem of Settings alterations was just discussed on the last few remote tech pages. Resulting in a revert from loading fixed settings files back to module manager patch recognition. Considering RemoteTech has some wide 3rd party modding/compatibility as well, not just from minor SETI mini mods, but most importantly from Realism Overhaul. Well, if you plan to use the community resource pack Food/Oxygen/Water with the tac consumption rates/stats, I would simply alter my mm patches to trigger on kerbalism as well as tac life support. That could then also be simply done for all the other mods supporting tac life support food oxygen water rates/stats, eg UniversalStorage, all the base building mods, procedural parts, etc...

I appreciate the offer of help, I just did not communicate my issue properly. The thing about the charme was just a remark about how non-automatic compatibility fast results in support requests from players in general. @ShotgunNinja I ll have to take another look. I would really like to make TAC + Kerbalism my default, the former for planetary base integration, the latter for added challenge. To have a really demanding experience. Oxygen + food + water would be great, hopefully using the same values as tac life support for consumption/stats? Because for the TAC values concerning those 3 resources, there are already compatibility patches in place. And I m really not in the mood to do them again for my mod, when there is no reason or benefit of rebalancing them again.

I can configure it for my personal use. But if there is no automatic compatibility, I can not recommend it eg for use with my mods. And as TAC is the proven standard life support for years and kerbalism is the newcomer, I ll have to stick to TAC only, when I would really prefer to recommend using both. edit: It would have some charme if people would start reading threads, but in reality, it just creates support issues.