Gfurst

Awesome little modlets, Cheers! Dynamic Deflection doesn't seems to be on CKAN unlike the rest.

Point taken, but this aircraft has extremely thin wing profile, making it probably unstable in lower speeds, has slightly swept back wings that should. But still going trans-sonic in this really would feel like a punch in the stomach. And it should indeed experience huge amounts of drag. 27kN is quite a lot, I remember in my previous test I was around 10~15kN I think, the MRS smaller jets, that roughly scales down from the regular jet engine. KAX is something to consider, Firespitter hasn't been updated in like ever, so can roughly be considered balanced. B9 wings, sounds promising. But considering nuFAR has been released only a couple of days is best to take some time for mods to catch up. By definition of the FAR wings, they may not represent what it actually looks like. I'm drifting, anyway, thanks to family and girlfriend, I don't think I'll playing too much this weekend, mothers day tomorrow. Report back when I can.

Yeah I've noticed the point down thing happens immediately. But if you don't edit before launching again the craft, doesn't it still appear pointed up, I think I've saw this before and didn't bother with it. About the suggestion, I've mentioned this before too, alternatively you could make so you can't edit, but instead edit a craft save file to make alterations, and so, if you want to make alterations to already stored craft, point it to the save craft file, either manually by the user or automatically by some reference, and then finally apply the needed alterations in construction. Could be cheaty though, completely altering a craft with the same parts and such. But for role-playing purposes I think its ok. The reloading/repairing done like that as well.

Trying for better physics with stock aero Thanks to Claw, he made extensive explanations on how stock currently works, here. We try to make some patches to adjust the physics and better handling of of certain stuff, initially I would tack on the simulated Stall happening, it depends on this section (and probably drag too) name = Default lift { key = 0 0 0 1.965926 key = 0.258819 0.5114774 1.990092 1.905806 key = 0.5 0.9026583 0.7074468 -0.7074468 key = 0.7071068 0.5926583 -2.087948 -1.990095 key = 1 0 -2.014386 -2.014386 } These keys describe curve of lift as it travels through X(AoA), the angle of attack it self is a inverse Sin function, that is: Sin 30° = 0.5 , the 0.5 being the third key in the example above. For each key, the first value is X, second is Y (the actual lift multiplier), the other two tangent in and out, to make smoother curves, I do not know how use them though. In the example above, the curve peaks at 30° AoA ( the 0.5 key), but it does not lose much value after that, 30° AoA seems a reasonable maximum but it should crap lift afterwards and produce big drag after this point. Any suggestions? Hints on how to plot this graph for better visualization?

Than do not touch the WASD keys

Alright, its very hard build approximate replicas of planes, specially because of limitation wing design/ aspect ratio, and no frontal propeller engines. But I take upon the challenge. I'm saying feelings cause, being a apprentice pilot my self and aircraft maintenance, I'm aware that most of what goes up there goes on feelings. If something doesn't feel right, than its probably not. For example a feeling, the feeling that a non-delta wing design could go super sonic is very wrong one, going on a speed like with regular planes and even swept wings should feel like a constant punch on the stomach. So for actual planes I can only give reference to something like the Cessna above, or similar. Totally unrelated, but I saw this pic while browsing and it really funny..

Cheers Claw, you did an amazing job explaining these things, it sure makes things a lot clearer . That's a very good explanation, I was thinking it was more like a tri-dimensional cube, but actually faces for each side of the part. I have to say though, this system is very unintuitive for manually adjusting and tweaking. But at least I'm assuming the PartDatabase file in the root folder, meansthe drag cube generate automatically, and if we spot something wrong we can take it as basis. What is the actual order/orientation might be helpful, eg, is X or Y up/down? I'm guessing it might be whatever Unity uses as models, so may be easier for people actually know how handle these. That's a bit odd, when the craft turns 90° from the wind, doesn't the side face account as being frontal, given the multiplier of 0.2 seems a bit off. But what I'm understanding about this, if the craft is perfectly aligned to the wind, the frontal face is occluded and the side faces contribute 0 to drag, makes sense. But I can see how this could be very, very² difficult to balance out. Actually, isn't this the source of balancing problems? having a higher lateral drag, means that we need to keep longer and less wider, As long as we're flying relatively straight everything should be alright., but if we tumble to rocket too much might notice some heavy drag. But its still good to see you're aware of the issue and will be addressing it eventually. Ahhh ok. By dot product I'm understanding 'Sine 45° = 0.5', sorry but english is my native, so math terms are hard for me. But this surely explains how things work, If can only figure out how to plan and plot these out more intuitively I can get some proper values. What, so quickly like that? But thanks Claw, this explanation is sure of great help. Only thing I think is left to explain is how body lift works.

Well considering that it is a alpha version, experimental of sorts, its expected to not be working 100%.

Sorry if I toned up a bit, but certainly you should figure things out for yourself too, that's why I did the patch also. Check out the last link in my description, patches and fixes for stuff, I think You will find it interesting. The reason why I was being "snippy", is that simply lately there have been lots and lots of people asking repetitive stuff, not only but in several other threads, people seem to be writing to much without doing any research/finding out for themselves. Either way, last take a deep breath and not take the discussion further into a thread that is not ours.

(merge emojis) "It will be soon" trademark XD @ at the toolbar icon issue, It might an DDS thing, have you guys used DDS converter to manually convert some stuff?

Pardon me, but it seems like a broken something, this usually happens when some mods are installed wrongly, MM patches and whatnots, Happened to me by having to part with same database name, you may want to check things better. And yes, it could be caused by several things, not only those two mods. - - - Updated - - - Hey Magico, I'm imagining a way to make the recovery vessel work without you cracking your head. Instead of trying to gather the whole craft and place it again in the SPH (most likely necessary to edit anyway), instead devise a way so we can left the craft park around the KSC, instead of bringing the craft back to the vessel list there would a option to refuel/reset experiments, this way all we need to recover are the science and kerbal manually. and make some way to spawn the kerbals around the parking area. Is it too far fetched? I think it would be fun, what feedback others have? Not meant to bum you out, so far the recovery seems to be working perfectly in the launchpad, and semi-perfectly in the runway. The plane spawns pointed up, which might be because the difference in axis from the SPH and VAB. You might want to look into that to fix the issues, apart from that, I've noticed a long time being taken to refit the craft, even with minor alterations. With that being said, the system is nearly working. The leaving the parked craft there would be cool too, and if for some reason there was some structural damage, itwould need to be taken apart and refit, as it should in RL. On a side note, having tons of fun, around day 150 and still haven't got much far.

Cheers, with the update things seems a whole lot smoother. I still get some pitch wobbles though, specially with altitude hold, but also with the vertical speed set. Didn't know about your modlets, will check them out immediately And as a shameless advertisement, please check out the last link the my sig, some patches and fixes I'm working on. Might be interesting. Off topic, I'm finally able to do soft landings on un-even terrain , something I could never do before, with stock aero though.

Yup, they're in the first node So I don't think its an issue with this. Anyway, how does MM patches work with career/tech unlock anyway, always wondered about this. No one else had this issue? Only me? Thats unfortunate.

Any word on the chute for kerbals yet? Really wanted to take this jump, making the descent a whole lot easier xD

Well to clear up discussion on people and Module Manager: This is really essential for people who use a few to a lot mods, is what makes possible compatibility patches based on dependency. So in short summary, is something that should be added stock.

Look a couple of post above, I've already done that, compatibility patch for RealChutes, don't know if will work with the lite version.... Read the thread a bit folks, for gods sakes...

It worked fine for me, thanks for the effort

Stupid windows Looking forward to using this again

Like ferram said, last time I've checked there were no FAR module for them fins, making them useless, strapping on the stock small fin works well. @ another note. I've quickly tested nuFAR before the release, it seems drag is bit too low at sub-sonic speeds. It handles great at trans to super sonic speeds, but drag seems still too low. I've reported this back in 0.25 I think, seems to still apply, for high, non delta wings, the plane still just glides level with engines off, barely loosing speed. In the recent it seems a bit harder however to maintain control a lower speeds. In my test I was going a bit ~120m/s before loosing control and stalling, thats is way too fast. coming in for a landing on that speed is nearly impossible, specially with the level runway. So pretty much a plane designed for sub-sonic is going super-sonic way too fast and handling flight very well. If you so desire, I can run designated test and report back on findings.

Guys... Is it possible that the integrated 3 km antenna isn't work? I remember from a long time ago this wasn't quite working and still it seems I can't connect to KSC from the launchpad without antenna.

Claw I think I'm getting what you've said. Checking the in-game drag profile I've come to understand the curves. For example, the drag curve for tail keeps at 1.0 till it reach trans-sonic, I find it a bit odd, but I guess makes sense for sudden stop tails, but not for the airplane ones. AS for the AoA stall thing: name = Default lift { key = 0 0 0 1.965926 key = 0.258819 0.5114774 1.990092 1.905806 key = 0.5 0.9026583 0.7074468 -0.7074468 key = 0.7071068 0.5926583 -2.087948 -1.990095 key = 1 0 -2.014386 -2.014386 } I'm assuming this is what you meant, it peaks on 0.5 give the biggets lift value, what the X axis stands for? Degrees 0 - 60?

Hey, a while back I've commented that somehow a window asking for database reload appeared for me, Module Manager title. Can someone clarify to me if either, why did appear out of nowhere, and how to call if I want to reload database during run-time. I'm aware too there is this feature in the stock debug options, in that does it reload and apply MM stuff too?

=O I do like this very much, specially the probe features. BTSM I do his idea but is also so closed off to supported mods and balance, and basically if you add anything it throws the whole thing out of balance. This mainly was the only turn off to me. Check out the last link on my signatures, I've doing some fixing and balancing on my own too, currently waiting for Claw's advice on how to tweak the physics parameter. On another note seems like FAR has been release,

Thanks Crzyrndm (how the hell do I say this?) I think I understand it, so thanks for fixing it and considering the right button thing. Cheers

Precisely, as Claw said, these are odd/open models. I'm guessing each part's drag cube is calculated separately with input data for part occlusion and stuff, for example, not as a whole.