kcs123

Agises posted link for fix with PWing-FAR issue in PWing thread I don't expect for ferram to fix things that is not related with his mod, but I'm trying to give proper feedback as much as possible, since I started subject about it. It could also warn other people that they don't blame FAR mod until they also check MechJeb or other mods to narrow down bug.

Check links in my signature. FAR graph will provide you with good info if you know how to read it. That is reason why it is actualy easier to bulid planes with FAR. You may even consider that graph as result from wind tunel testing . It is hard to tell without more info, but most probably your pitching moment (yelow line on FAR graph is too steep). Meaning you pitch too much from neutral pitching moment, and other pitching forces push your nose to neutral pitching moment area fast. If you excess neutral pitching moment, forces switch direction to push nose in oposite direction again. So, your plane oscilate around neutral pitching moment until it stabilize itself, if it is able to do so, anyway. To help yourself with that effect, you should tune controling surfaces, wings, etc. in way that you are not able to push plane too much in steep AoA area where pitching moment will draw you back. When you do it properly, you can keep pressing "S" key all time and your prograde vector will folow your nose without overpitching, so your plane will never get in dangerous AoA area where wings will going to stall and other bad things happen. Also, avoid using SAS in atmosphere, it behave worst compared with last few KSP builds, some people already work on fix for that.

I got again that strange bug in editor, this time not with struts, but with whole wing. Happened in SPH editor when I was try to reposition whole wing to adjust CoL. Once I deatached wing, I was unable to attach again on hull. I was not able to find complete output log, but I have cached something from debug console (ALT+F2 and/or ALT+F12) [noparse] [MechJeb2] Exception in MechJebModuleStageStats.StartSimulation(): at System.Collections.Generic.Dictionary`2[Part,MuMech.FuelNode].Add (.Part key, MuMech.FuelNode value) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 at System.Linq.Enumerable.ToDictionary[Part,Part,FuelNode] (IEnumerable`1 source, System.Func`2 keySelector, System.Func`2 elementSelector, IEqualityComparer`1 comparer) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 at System.Linq.Enumerable.ToDictionary[Part,Part,FuelNode] (IEnumerable`1 source, System.Func`2 keySelector, System.Func`2 elementSelector) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 at MuMech.FuelFlowSimulation..ctor (System.Collections.Generic.List`1 parts, Boolean dVLinearThrust) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 at MuMech.MechJebModuleStageStats.StartSimulation () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 [/noparse] and also lot of red lines with: [noparse] [Exception]: NullReferenceException [/noparse] It seems that has nothing with FAR, it is not realy good place to write this, but since I mentioned already in this thread and other people also reported "NullReferenceException", I thought it will be fair to write feedback about it. EDIT: I didn't use PWing(not even installed, but I plan to), it was all stock parts.

I'm not absolute sure, but it seems that new struts make a mess with FAR. I have tried to make wider wing with several SP+ swept wings. First I attached SP+ structural wing type A on craft hull. And to that wing I have attached two SP+ type B wings next to each other. Now I need to attach some struts between those two B type wings, becouse each of them is attached only to first structural wing type A. Problem is that when I put one part of strut on one wing, I cant make connection by placing other end of strut to second swept wing. I'm not sure if that is related to FAR or not, still need to make few more test re-install of mods to be sure that is not stock bug and have anything at all with FAR. I reporting this for others to pay attention, until I will be able to provide more info about it.

Yes, it is possible, however, last time I tried in 0.24 and 0.25, not all pairs works corectly. There could be conflict with other mods installed, local language keyboard settings or something else, so not all pair of keys will work properly, you will have to search for proper ones. If I recall correctly, keys (I,O,P,J,K,L) have worked, but could be conflict with KAS (P key), you will have to find proper ones for your game/mode for yourself.

As addition on wanderfounds guide, you can also check links in my signature.

Put whole wing on some slight angle (forward/backward axis). Put AoA slider on 200% and give more Ctrl Dflct. Now use FAR graph to perform some analysis. After that control surfaces shold be shifted in desired direction based on positive or negative AoA and should be visible in SPH. I think that this should best explain what it does then write thousen of words. This thing can help a lot to fine tune controls, making craft less wooble if used properly and influence to adjustment of Cm (pitching moment on FAR graph, not center of mass).

This bug is still present in FAR 14.5.1. Noticed on AoA value for leveled flight. Calculated with 0 flaps increment, folowed by flap 3 twice in a row and back to 0 flap increment (2 times pressed on simulation). On each simulation I got different AoA values. Another bug that I have noticed is that FAR calculations are not the same when I design craft, test craft on runway and then reverted flight back to hangar. First calculation shows drag close to zero (red line) and L/D (green line) close to 2. When I reverted flight to hangar and made the same calculations, drag red line was well above L/D green line. I will try to make few more test to pinpoint exact mod dependencies and steps to reproduce bug. Still don't have much mods installed and on mentioned craft I have used adjustable landing gear, MechJeb embeded in command cockpit and kibal part from station science mod for heavy payload inside cargo bay. Just posting it here for other to pay attention and try to reproduce bug. EDIT: Deleted ALL mods. Only FAR V14.5.1 left. Started game and loaded previously well designed plane in SPH editor. FAR graph shows this: Reattached same wing on the same spot and I got proper FAR graph:

If there is two MM dll's in folder than only newest is active. Look in MM thread for more info about it, I have read somwhere in changelog or forum about that.

Maybe to wait until January ? There is still lot of mods that were not updated and until then maybe someone still make a test for already presented crafts. However if noone provide any review until then, there is no point to keep this one open. If I have helped other people around to improve their designs, that is already sufficient reward for me, meaning all those rantling on forum is not compleatly futile. Most of us will chase down updates of favorite mods and update craft designs to match recent changes in parts and aerodynamics. I wold like to participate in another contest for 0.90 planes, but don't know how much time I will have for playing up to end of February (real life issues sucks when comes to gaming). So, I don't know if I have time organize contest, update post as contestants make entry, review, etc. For different categories, as noname117 mentioned, I think that this one is pretty well organized contest. Unfortunately, there was not enough entry for each category to make each valid. KAX mod has been updatet for V0.90, so there is chance for more planes in that category too. B9 still need update, confirmation that everything works well, etc. The good news is that while I wait for procedural wings mod to be updated to KSP 0.90, I have made remake of Sporty MK1 and SpacePlane MK2. Almost all stock parts except landing gears. I have used adjutable landing gear mod that only bring 2 new parts and firespitter plugin that is already essential for other mods. I will put those along with already presented craft somwhere in craft exchange forum after few more testing, if anyone is interested at all to take a look.

It works fine with me. Put only yaw to 100%, set others to 0% (not to -100% !). You may also want to set Control Deflection to higher value to be able to notice difference when you press (A,D) keys. It is easier to notice on bigger control surfaces then smaller ones.

I agree with that. Probably I didn't explain correctly. For example, B9 mod and Advanced Jet Engine mod when altered configs for engines have also changed description fro those. Like: "Basic Jet engine designed for speeds up to 2 mach". So it is possible to change description for parachutes when you hover mouse over item in SPH/VAB editor in game. That is why I suggested to put some warning message there, while people don't read mentioned documentation, they will read item description while they build crafts, at least when they compare which one is better. If you make option just to disable message, I'm fine with that too.

There should be separate resource recycle/synthesis parts. TAC life suport mod already have made steps in right direction. For CO2 to O2 recycle part it should not weight too much, also filtration from waste water to drinking water should not be too problematic. But fuel synthesis should be much heavier, it most probably require some catalyst item (platinum maybe) for sucessfull production. For game balance purpose I think it should weight something between 15 and 30t. Should not be too heavy to discourage people from using it, but it should require some good planing to send fuel production machinery on some planet first and then other cratfts to folow in mission and asist to assembly fuel rafinery craft.

Speaking of AoA(%) on control surfaces, I started to experiment with those, and it is quite usefull to fine tune pitching moment (Cm yelow line on FAR graph - check link in my signature if you are not sure what I'm taliking about). There is small bug with those however. In flight everything behave as should, but there is problem on runway before taking off. I have set AoA to 100% on my elevators on tail. Tail horisontal wings are set on angle to pitch tail down and in that way pushing nose up. Plane is designed in a way that nose is pitching down on runway until take off. While I prepare plane to take off, I have activated brakes/spoilers. At that moment elevators go crazy. Elevator control surfaces moves randomly pitching up/down and doing that quite fast. Looking at FAR flight data it seems that FAR can't determine properly AoA, numbers jumping from +5 to -90 AoA, it is hard to read them properly. Once I start engines and plane starting to roll on runway AoA numbers become normal and elevators starting to behave properly. Solution could be to disable AoA feature until plane gain some speed like 10-20 (m/s) and also should be disabled while plane is in space. There is no use of that outside of atmosphere and just causing unwanted CPU drain.

I'm joining that request. I understand that was easier to pop up warning message in game then reply on each post when someone complains about destroyed parachutes, but could be possible to change item description of parachute and put that warning there instead ? There is more probability that users will read that when they build craft then they read whole chnagelog, redme file, OP or searching trough thread.

In utility section. Try to find it in sandbox game first. For career mod you need to research them first.

Most probably leftovers from previous version of mod. Mod is changed a lot while craft were remained the same. If you looking for stable craft examples check out link in my signature.

It seems that you bumped in similar bug as I described in Procedural Wing thread. I'm not sure if it is related to FAR, Tweakscale, Procedural Wings or some other mod. Based on your pictures, your CoL is shifted slightly. That is main reason why you don't have same L/D ratio on previous and updated craft. When you run game and load your save game try to load craft in SPH editor twice in a row to see if there is CoL shifting bug present.

Yes.Sort of. Outside of SPH/VAB editor you can only use dock port as sort of "green ball" attachment point. But KAS will alow you to use surface attached parts to put on any surface of ship as you like. So, in space or other celestial body in "flight" you can attach strut points and use those points to connect different vesel parts, two different vesels or even vesel and planet surface. That kind of parts you can put in those mentioned conteiner. Those are made to be structurally stable, to help make stronger connection between two parts of vesels previously connected only with dock ports. For example, you can grab two pipe connectors (one at a time) with EVA, put it on different places on craft an then you can create a link between them. Also KAS brings some other parts that could be used to build crane for lifting different parts and connect larger pieces together. Like winches, magnets, hooks, stuff like that. You will get more insight if you just install mod and try it in sandbox game. You will not be disappointed.

No. I don't think so. You can't grab/attack/put in container that kind of item. However you can bring fuel tank and engine as one pice and put in Mun orbit and in second mission you deliver command module in Mun orbit. Both pieces should have dock port, so you can connect those together. Then you can use KAS container with some items in it and then attach additional parts to your previously connected engine/fuel/command module. As additional KAS parts you can use small RCS thrusters, struts, lights, solar panels, parachutes etc. Whatever is not too heavy for Kerbal in EVA suit to manage.

That makes you a winner, regardless of "official" announcement. If you didn't enter contest nobody would test your plane, wrote critics and you will be unable to improve your craft. I have also found many design ideas that I could use in my future builds, like using stock tail saction for airintake/engine mount, using vernors for VTOL crafts, and some other small things that makes plane a lot better. Found also some interesting mods that I didn't even bothered to try before and that could be part of my essentials ... Meaning that this contest already fullfilled it's purpose, with or without winner. It will be nice to see what people will come up with additional assets in V0.90

There is some videos in first post in FAR thread - check spoiler section. There is also link to FAR wiki. You may check Kerbodyne SSTO Division thread. I wrote some additional info in already mentioned thread in above post. Check spoiler sections. You can find some decent craft examples for building with B9 and FAR. When you open FAR graph hover mouse over numbers for tooltip with additional info. Don't know much about video tutorial, but you can start with mentioned. Hope that helps.

Good to know that facts. I have lifted 30t payload in orbit with Gross weight ~90t plane (payload included). It's must be that I have build good plane, or something compleatly wrong with game mechanic . Not a bad looking craft, although, from pictures it have too many overlaping wing parts, could not test that craft with my PC, but nice galery and Shuttle replica. Are those made only from stock parts and stock aero ?

Original Thread for Cpt. Kipard Skylon: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/49756-WIP-R-E-L-Skylon-C2-Alpha-Released-FAR-config-available%21-%2806-Dec-2014%29/page9 Noticed similar asymetry bug with Procedural wings, but it is not only PW bug, I got the same with stock SP+ wings. Workaround for it is quite simple, deatach wing from oposite side where CoL is not calculated and attach again on plane. Both wings are calculated now and shows correct CoL point. I'm not sure how to reproduce this bug, it seems that hapens when you attach/deatach wings number of times in editor and/or forgot to choose symetry before attaching/grabing wing.

I have found something interesting today on news portal. Didn't even thought that something like that already exist in real life. Here is link for Power to Liquids solution from Sunfire company. Something like that solves problems when comes to fuel. Still need some kind of "ore" minerals as resource for creating rocket/building parts. Some kind of "greenhouse" could be used like in TAC life support mod for creating foods on long journeys.