kcs123

Grab the wing from oposite side that you attached on hull first time and attach it to hull again. It is small issue I got from time to time with various wings, not only B9 procedural wings. So I doubt that is related to B9 PW, source for that issue is elwhere.

@Right, thanks, building that plane was challenge by itself, but numbers shows that it is worth to do it - 57.43 cost/t and wide 24m cargo bay offers room for 2.5 m space station parts with some stuff attached to sides like solar panels and similar. Doubt that I will carry more than 100t at time, but with ability for more than 300t will give some extra dV for reaching higher orbit in space.

I mean instead of scaled version of IR part you need to write config file for each sized parts. For example default part is 1.25 size, with tweakscale you were able to scale it down to 0.625 or scale up to 2.5m Without tweakscale you need to write separate config for 0.625 and 2.5m parts. When you start game you will have 3 parts in editor instead just one that you were able to scale up or down. That could eat up some memory, but I don't think that it will be too much. Already launched crafts will still look odd if you have launched them when you were using tweakscale.

That is one of reasons why I keep cargo bays open in SPH. Once you are on runway hold brakes, start engines with full throttle and then close cargo bays. When cargo bays closes you engines will be near maximum thrust for takeoff. Other reason is habbit due to bug in KSP/FAR when parts were not considered shielded if you don't close or open cargo bay once prior flight. Bug is solved, by my habit have remained Nice plane, btw.

Unfortunately, fix only works if you quicksave/quickload. If you put plane in orbit, save game(exit to space center) quit to desktop and run KSP again and fly ship previously saved in orbit, resouces in wings are replenished again.

Yes. It is kind of "Automatic trim control". As you AoA rise or lower, control surfaces trims to desired direction +/- % of control deflection you have set for that control surface. ferram asked for suggestion of better name for AoA(%) feature. Maybe it is better to call it "Automatic trim control" ? Is it more self explainatory ?

Thumbs up for this, it will be nice addition and to keep gameplay balance could be prohibited to use fuel on same wing that have solar panel surface. Take your time, no need to rush things, I assume that you have some sleepless nights lately, judging from frequent updates

Well, deleting configs for other parts didn't solved this: I was blaming GPU drivers, unity, poor tested KSP release, ATM mod, anything but tweakscale. Above bug in picture happened after saving game in orbit and loading the same save. I have to exit game all to desctop to cure this. Along with visual glitches, RCS and main engines didn't worked properly, action groups become buged and so on. Reported this in tweakscale thread and found in same thread that tweakscale is responsible for large craft falling apart. I wasn't be aware of that either. Instead of using tweakscale cfg, it will be good to consider to write separate cfgs for us that can't use tweakscale anymore. Fan of IR parts otherwise than too tied with tweakscale.

Have you tried without tweakscale ? I got some similar texture issues on scene change: quicksave/quickload or reverting to SPH and launching craft again. Found tha several latest versions of tweakscale are broken, don't know which one is last stable release for recommendation.

Thanks for fix with fuel bug, that was fast. Suggestion for one of next releases regarding tech tree balance: Make it earlier in tech nodes, but if it is possible alow using different textures on wings on different tech levels. Textures could be related to cost, mass and max heating/shielding. Don't know if something like that can be done at all or it is too much effort for little gain, but it is something to consider in one of future updates.

Looks really promising, are you planing to make optional cfgs for people that don't use tweakscale at all ? Reason is that several last releases of tweakscale are full of bugs, it breaks game in places where you least expect it. Author of mod is in lack of free time to update it in reasonable time, so while tweakscale is good mod, we will have to manage without it for a while. At least until another stable version of tweakscale is released.

@Mykill, Aqua and Alshain are right, you need to distribute weight over more wheels. I forgot to make a screenshot where wheels are more visible, but here is small trick that could help you: First attach structural panel somewhere on plane. Next, attach adjustable landing gears on that structural panel. You can attach up to three landing gears on that panel. It is much easier to align them when they are on panel. When you aligned them properly, you can use whole structural panel as subassembly. Now you can easy attach perfectly aligned gears anywhere on plane. Those on picture is actualy two such structural panels. If you still have problems with weight distribution you can use additional struts to strenghten connection between wings and structural panels. You can craft file as example in link in my signature. Hope that it will help you.

Interesting thread. I'm afraid that I could not provide you with stock craft for this chalange, I refuse to play KSP without FAR I agree with points in the thread, if you know how to balance craft and provide them with enough thrust it will fly I think that my crafts made for FAR are even more stable than stock crafts. Simple reason is that FAR provides you with realy usefull tools for that. It is only hard to design planes until you figure out basics by yourself. - - - Updated - - - I think that someone make a comparison with air intakes/speeds open/closed. Sorry, can't recall which thread it was. Could be this one or AJE(Advanced Jet Engines), not absoulutely sure. Point is that it should matter if air intakes are closed/open and type of air intake. Don't know how much is of influence and how notable it is for you. AJE mode will provide you for additional info on air intakes. For example, while I was testing MK2 B9PW plane, found that one B9 sabre intake per engine was not enough to reach 27km in airbreathing mode. I tried with another set B9 air intake, but that was drag overkill. I couldn't get enough speed to reach higher altitude. So I have added only one small stock structural air intake. It does not provide much air, but it is small sized with low profile/wight and drag. It didn't cause overkill drag and it is provided that small amount of air needed for higher altitude.

Bug with fuel in B9 procedural wings still exists. This time I didn't update any mods between saves. Qucksaved in flight and couple of minutes later reloaded game again. I think that is entierly B9 procedural wing bug, because fuel consumed in other tanks are saved/loaded properly. Also, while I was design that craft on last picture it comes to my mind that it will be usefull for new FAR AoA feature for control surfaces/all moving wings that can be adjusted in flight trough action groups. It will help a lot to make more stable planes when you have heavy cargo onboard and release that cargo in space. While you return to runway, previous good AOA settings for all moving wing could be too much causing plane to backflip. Backfliping problem could be solved in flight if you can adjust new AoA settings in flight.

Yes, in latest update B9 procedural wing CAN hold fuel. I think that you misread my post And, yes wing tips have huge effect on lift, it is common practice in RL to have wingtips instead large wingspan. Wingtips also helps with roll and sideslip stabilization.

Can't trim main wing much, plane would be unstable at high speeds/altitudes. Also new B9 procedural wings can hold fuel, so it is not absolute dead weight. I have made tradeoff - more wing surfaces over engine thrust/weight. You can see on pictures that L/D*V efficiency is quite well on all speeds/altitudes. Most effective near 1 mach @ 10 km, like most planes, and that number is over 6k in occasions. Could be that I'm too stubborn, or not compleatly wrong about using large wings on my crafts. People complaning to me about that all times

@Dermeister, you can improve sideslip problems with slightly dihedral main wings and/or slightly larger vertical surface on tail. If anyone interested, I have made 0.90 version of my heavy SSTO lifter. It is not compleately "green" on low speeds but it is controlable. Here is galery from test flights. Link for craft file and more info is in signature for anyone interested. SpacePlane S3 B9 B9PW - test flight to orbit with 367.4t of payload. Require mods: FAR, B9, B9 procedural wings, Adjustable landing gears.

@Right, thanks for kind words. I found a typo in OP. In Pamynx entry says about payload that is 21.61 while in OP is 216.1. I'm not envy, I was just curious to see 216t lifter and left disapointed. I wanted to build 400t SSTO lifter, but I failed to do it. Maybe it could be done, but will require a lot more time to optimize craft, so I have to satisfy with only 367.4t In lot of places I have found info that "SpacePlane with large wings is not good due to large drag and dead weight in space.", "Sucessfull SpacePlane need to have more than 1 TWR to be able to reach orbit." I was too stubborn to listen that, so here is my "failure" as second entry for this chalange. SpacePlane S3 B9 B9PW - with payload: Parts count: 199; Cost 422,458.00; Weight: 722.530 t SpacePlane S3 B9 B9PW - without payload wet cost/mass: Parts count: 150; Cost 406,070.00; Weight: 355.130 t SpacePlane S3 B9 B9PW - without payload dry cost(fuel and monopropelant removed): Parts count: 150; Cost 384,967.00 Efficiency should be: 21,103.00 / 367.4 t = 57.43 cost/t Link for craft file is in signature, with one exception - two craft files, with plane shown in galery (minus fuel from one cargo bay) and more optimized variant with some extra struts and info in craft file. Plane is more than capable to land at KSP as glider, only problem is it's weight, so you need to be extra carefull to not destroy runway. If you can't land exactly on runway there is still enough clear land nearby for 100% recovery. For penalty that I didn't provided re-entry pictures I have removed all fuel and monopropelant in SPH editor for above calculations. SpacePlane S3 B9 B9PW - test flight to orbit with 367.4t of payload. Require mods: FAR, B9, B9 procedural wings, Adjustable landing gears.

My answer to blowfishs post moved here. I edited above for easier maintenance of thread in future. Also updated OP with new/old craft file for v0.90

Not so long ago, I suggested ferram to add another part to FAR mod. Simple placeholder for variables, like maximum roll angle, maximum AoA, pitch damper for example. Those should be read from variable placeholder and set FAR flight assistance variables by kOS. This is usefull, since there is no general good or bad options since each craft is different. I'm still learning to use kOS, but my first idea, besides IR parts, that kOS will be usefull to make better autopilot than stock SAS or MechJeb. Problem with both, stock SAS and MechJeb is that those doesn't watch altitude/speed in optimal way and watch craft limitations, so that craft don't fall in dangerous AoA area or have too much speed on too low altitude or too low speed for high altitude. Most important factor is "Q", preasure below wing that produce lift. Good kOS autopilot should watch that, speed and altitude for subsonic and supersonic speeds, how much "Q" you will need for optimal ascent path that will produce enough lift, because as you gain speed you loose lift at supersonic speeds. You also need to watch AoA and be carefull that craft don't exceed it's limits. So, idea is if such part exists like variable placeholder, it would be possible to make script that is valid for all crafts, loaded from archive in kOS on launch and that script will use per craft values for limitations from variable placeholder. I have created some realy stable SSTOs, puting those in orbit is realy simple, but a litle tedious. Once I create stable craft, I would like to be relieved from tedious tasks . kOS comes as solution for that. I would probably bother you more with that once I start to use kOS more seriously

In very reare ocasions I use motors on wheels, so I missed that issue. Lucky me Learning new stuff in KSP each day

Flexing wings is actualy very usefull. It will show weak spot on your craft, so you can add struts in that area or increase strength/weight ratio on wings. RCS Build aid mod is very usefull to find out tiny asymmetry, not only from RCS, but also main engines. You can see example in my post page or two before this one.

Known problem with tweakscale. Latest tweakscale produce some unexpected behaviours where you least expect. I don't even recall what was latest stable version of tweakscale mod 1.45 or 1.48 or something between. Unfortunately tweakscale developer have no free time to update mod soon, so we have to find other ways to use IR parts. Write you own cfg for missing resized parts for example. Someone posted here how you can do it not so long time ago. Most probably i will also do it for my own game as soon as I start to rebuild my crafts that uses IR parts.

I think that is from KAX mod, not absoulute sure, haven't tried latest version on 0.90

I understand your feeling about it. Wasting time on something that noone will use it. I like your work so far, but unfortunately I didn't have time to test it and give proper feedback as you deserve. Didn't find even decent mod combo that can work without issues on my PC, still narowing it down and due to encountered issues I'm still in sandbox mode preparing crafts for career. I'm afraid that 1.0 will be released sooner then I will be able to start career mode.