Hotel26

So the reason this is an issue for me right now is that I am starting a new world and finding that it's hard to duplicate the same performance (in stability) as the above. It may be because the original was an upgrade from 1.2 and then I added all the auto-strutting. Trying to assemble one from scratch in 1.3 is not panning out, even as I progressively add the auto-strutting as I add every pylon. (a.k.a. a pair of "ugly orange tanks") They almost immediately begin shaking.

Happy New Year, everyone. I am overhauling my fleet and I'm in the market for ideas about orbital fuel dumps (OFD). Let's define an OFD as an orbital vehicle (Kerbin or elsewhere) that serves the sole two purposes of: refueling visiting vessels; (possibly) keeping mission components docked together awaiting final (low orbit) assembly; (not looking beautiful [in Space, nobody can see how Ugly you are]) I gave up on space stations as anything more than a fuel dump long ago. I've recently upgraded to 1.2 and then 1.3 and find auto-strutting -- which is just a way to defeat the ugly side of the Unity physics engine (as best I can gather) -- does actually help. But I still can't risk docking very much to the OFD (pictured). And have to remain very observant with the Warp key lest tragedy befall. What have people found is the best way to put a pile of fuel into orbit and keep it stocked?? Pictured below, (BEWARE THE UGLINESS), I assemble the following from bits left over from two super-tanker launches. Each super-tanker lofts 165 kilotons of LF up to the OFD. You can see this OFD has two weak links, at the hubs. I find that just maneuvering a ship near it can cause it to get the shakes. Even auto-strutted. And I'm not terribly sure which kind of strutting (Root, Parent, Grandparent, Heaviest) ought to work best... Please post screenshots of your Orange Fuel Dumps...!!

For those who have downloaded so far, thank you. It's worth pointing out that the (imminent) revision of Telemagic supporting control towers, will refuel craft landing on the surface of any body in the Kerbolar System [that has a surface] and will therefore comprise a super-efficient mechanism to land, take on a load of fuel (including XENON!!!) and boost it back to orbit to refuel interplanetary vessels. None of this will be exactly free (you will have to land a "control tower") and it will still promote the skills of the game (e.g. pin-point landing) but it will give the Rocketeer the Option to bypass fuel-refining. [I think we have all been there now and done that...]

I released [1.3.1] Telemagic, the "New Year's Eve" release, just slightly ahead of schedule. [A lot ahead of schedule for those who are going to dub it the "April Fools'" release!! :)] This is the initial release and its intention is to promote the Baikerbanur Cosmodrome from Easter Egg status to that of Space Center, 2nd Class. It teleports craft from the KSC runway and launchpad to BKB and it additionally refuels craft parked on the designated refueling aprons at both space centers. A future release will support refueling at "hub" airports, supporting the growth of regional/global Kerbin aviation networks. [I'm currently in contact with Richard Branson's office at Virgin HQ to seek his endorsement/backing. Amazing the bureaucracy there as I have YET to speak with the man himself!] And, with a tailwind, Telemagic may also end up as an in-game button. I should point out (Truth in Advertising) that this initial version is a prototype and it is probably more oriented toward the adventurous. To use this "add on", you will need to be able to set up a shortcut/launcher to run a JAR file. The instructions are included in the .ZIP README. [Yes, yes, yes, HyperEdit, I know...!]

https://spacedock.info/mod/1627/Telemagic [MIT license; source is at https://github.com/Hotel26/Telemagic and builds in the Release/Any CPU configuration. A post-build copy of the resultant DLL is expected to fail harmlessly for others.] Announcing the surprise "Phoenix" release. (This mod had been pronounced 'dead' and I never envisaged returning to it. My gratitude to @Aazard for encouraging me.) Briefly, Telemagic facilitates the following: deployment of aircraft and rocket vehicles from KSC to Baikerbanur [promoting BKB to a first-class space center] This feature on hold. refueling of vehicles at KSC, Island Airport, Dessert Strip and BKB (Baikerbanur) refueling of vehicles at recognized "hub" airports The objective is to promote regional aviation networks and thereby promote exploration and colonization. This "Phoenix" release replaces the cumbersome "control tower" concept with the simple concept of parking a client vehicle within 30 meters of a supply vehicle, marked as Target, and "milking" the supply. This means that heavy tankers can be designed, filled and then flown to regional/hub airports or to form an operations base at some location. Once parked on the ground, other smaller craft can refuel from them many times before the tanker must be flown home to refuel. Refueling at KSC, Island Airport, Dessert Strip and BKB takes place on the "fuel aprons" depicted: To use Telemagic: You must have engines shut down and brakes applied. Then press the Telemagic button to summon the genie: You must be parked, either on a designated fuel apron (see above), or within 30 meters of your target, which must also be parked, brakes applied and engines shut down. Feedback, suggestions, difficulties: please contact me here in this topic. Status: please check here for status especially about current problems. If you are experiencing a problem mentioned here, feel free to contact me also by PM as I may be assisted by taking a copy of your craft file(s) or by your specific information. Acknowledgements: Hotel26 is indebted to @JadeOfMaar, @Li0n, @bewing, @Lisias and @Aazard for their invaluable assistance. Bravo!

Well, I think I understand why the approach above is sensitive to craft design. And am experimenting with a very simple Euler-derived rotation directly from KSC to BKB... I'll report back here.

I've written a mickey-mouse prototype of what might become a true KSP extension. It automates the modification of a quicksave.sfs file to transplant a KSC aircraft on the runway or on the launchpad to the Baikerbanur cosmodrome. Everything is straightforward except for the manipulation of the VESSEL.rot quaternion that expresses the vehicle attitude (presumably in Kerbin's frame of reference). I put the same craft in both places and observed the quaternion values, K and B. Then I wrote code that, for a vessel at KSC with quaternion 'p', performed the computation q = B.(Kinv.p) The idea is to use Kinv to back out the orientation for K and then use B to orient the vehicle for the destination. I am aware that quaternion multiplication is not the same as quaternion rotation. First difficulty is that I found I had to use different numbers for the categories os SPH (horizontal) and VAB (vertical) craft and I suspect flags fall into their own category as well. I thought I had cracked the code but the last teleport attempt was of a Screechcraft Starship and it arrived at Baikerbanur in a devilish twist. All of this is (necessarily) outside of Unity for the moment, but I wondered if any sage advice might be proferred? I've had half a shot at writing a real r.q.rinv rotation but it does not look promising. Another way of looking at this would be to find a rotation that is equivalent to rotating from KSC to Baikerbanur. Both have known coordinates, e.g.: KSC: lat = -0.097168916153244286 lon = -74.557681735503166 BKB: lat = 20.652140227285638 lon = -146.42383127125942 Any thoughts about this would be appreciated.

Here's my MiG 15 slapped together out of 15 stock parts. (17 if you bring your own earplugs to fly it...) https://kerbalx.com/Hotel26/MiG-15b

You might be right about that "brick thing". Aquila Torpedo (a.k.a. "Bullseye; a.k.a. "Buzzbomb") steers in for touch-down at K.S.C. It overshot and had to reverse course to do it, too. Yeehaaah! (Just needs an EVA seat and a KERBAL strapped in real tight.) "Let's park on the northern side, today..." "Under chutes. Watch out for the engine shrapnel, BELOW!" Happiness TWO control towers; ONE airport. There's gonna be a fight... Rather amazingly, the Torpedo can actually be coaxed into a controlled ascent. It was a wild bronco until I added a reaction wheel.

You're right, and I knew better. I just lazily quoted the quote... thanks for correcting me: "whisky"!

Great ideas. I think I would do the aerobraking down to an altitude that will reduce my speed to a point I can get into a "nominal" LKO. Then "square up" that orbit [circularize at, say, 70x70km] From there, when I pass over a point in the daylight I like [KSC!!!!], I boost the apoapsis with a short prograde fire that raises my apoapsis just enough so that it "marks" the other side of my orbit. Then schedule a burn at that apoapsis to reduce periapsis to some number, 32-35km (I am reading from this post), from which I know that the trajectory will degrade to a landing at that point. [The downside of this is that raising the apoapsis slightly increases your penetration speed when you return to the periapsis for landing.] You could easily just wait half of your orbital period and then lower your periapsis to whatever your particular vee-hickle likes for landing... From the mechanics of von Hohmann [as long as you are in a circular orbit] you know you are operating on the other [original] side of the orbit... It's kinda nice to eyeball your landing field going over it, 70 km above, and think, "I'll seeya in one more loop..." EDIT: I've course. I didn't allow for the rotation of Kerbin in 31m21.44s, did I? But then that's factored into whatever periaptic altitude you know works for the V-Hickle... Easy.

"Technically, according to chemistry, whiskey IS a solution."

Next step in my objective to set up regional/hub networks throughout the Kerbolar system: (About 40 clicks north of KSC, in the Walmart Parking Lot.) This has a cupola more than X meters off the ground -- therefore, it qualifies as a hub airport control tower. The extension I am working on will refuel any craft parked within 50 meters. Yeah...

Imagine a brand new, very hot looking spaceplane sitting on the tarmac; nobody around; you hop up the ladder and notice the keys are in the ignition. In a jiff, you are strapped in and ready to go in 60 seconds! You can't find the Action Group key to retract the ladder. All the action group assignments are something else. You accidentally pop the main landing drag chutes. Too late; you get nabbed! "Step out of that cockpit, soldier! Hands on your head!" APOLOGIES if this has been discussed before; it didn't come up in search. Has anybody concocted some kind of standard assignment of AG keys for common functions? I know this isn't easy to do, especially when you have staged vehicles...

I finally "got around" [tm] to reading this piece on ascent/descent simulators: http://scolton.blogspot.com.au/2013/12/ksp-ascent-and-deorbit-simulators.html and thought I'd post it here in case it hasn't appeared in the Forum before. Interesting, especially the Laythe and return mission... (If it warrants any discussion amongst interested parties, it should probably go to its own thread.)

shifting KSC-deployed craft to the inland Space Center is permitted in my Orbit (production) world shifting into Luna orbit is permissible for testing but only in my Lab world any time I legitimately fill tanks with mined/refined fuel, it is permitted to magically top off xenon tanks. Don't know why, but I don't like HyperEdit and don't use it. I'm now automating the .sfs edit for the redeployment so that it is almost instant. My automation is also intended to refuel all craft parked on the tarmac of designated "hub" airports in the very near future. Not cheating but I had better list them: 4. I make liberal use of quicksave reloads because a) I'm here to learn as efficiently as possible and b) I hate realism (I get that at my day job!) 5. I use MechJeb because it displays crucial information precisely, e.g. radar altitude and apoapsis on ascent and while maneuvering and long/lat and because I can do better than it anything I use it for because, like an instrument pilot, I routinely do it myself "hands-on" to stay current. I use it for docking only to get the initial axial alignment and then turn it off because it wastes MP. Nevertheless, I've just recently thought of a better way (yet untested) such that I can avoid it completely. Ah, yeah, pet peeve opportunity spotted!! 6. TURN ON EMERGENCY BATTERIES when all other charge has been exhausted. The switch used to work, prior to about 1.2.1. This is a DUMB way to die but if you intentionally went to the trouble of putting an emergency battery somewhere into the design then you do not deserve to die; not on that day, not in that way!! The answers to this worthy subject are personal, always interesting to others (cross-pollination*) but I think the Cardinal Rule for Cheating is this: The Rules must target the destruction of Useless Tedium; but never Challenge nor Skill. * Alt-F12?? Hooray and thanks!! I learned something!

Yes, sir! Thanks for the inspiration. And: GREAT CATCH! Yes, this thread was about Ursa (transport plane) and your final rev of it was perfect. I then turned back to Falcon (an SSTO, now Peregrine) to apply what I had learned. So thanks for pointing out that I posted a different craft so that it won't confuse anyone reading this later. TWO for the price of ONE. Thanks also for the suggestions. I'll follow up. I just updated the craft at KerbalX because I discovered that removing the precoolers made the plane fly considerably better. So to anyone who downloaded, I do recommend you download it again or simply take the precoolers out of the wingboard engines yourself. --- My next project will be to take my old Trident craft and convert it to a flying control tower. It's fundamentally 3 towers of Hitchhiker cabins with a cupola overlooking the lot. Aquila Neptune. You de-orbit it toward your target; drogues to slow; glide over the top of the target, then deploy main chutes to set it down vertically on its fins. [I'm working on a KSP "mod" to "build" hub airports and refuel aircraft parked on the tarmac. ]

https://kerbalx.com/Hotel26/Aquila-Peregrine This is very close to the final result for me, and it is inspired by the Dolphin, one of the two contributions from swis-swjr. I'm still a noob, so it's hard to judge perfection on an absolute scale (when you don't know what you don't know) but Peregrine is now close enough that the remaining defect(s) stand out quite tall: it's a semi-wild stallion without SAS coz I have the CoL cranked quite close to the CoM, but I like that agility and this plane has enough punch now that the minor drag from SAS cannot rein it in. EDIT: I took the precoolers off (not quite as cool) but performance and stability surprisingly better. [It moved the CoM forward, naturally.]

I am learning so much by downloading contestant entries and flying the submissions. Right now, I am fascinated by seaplanes. I thought they were hokey, but did YOU realize that 50% of Kerbin's surface is perfectly flat (non-mountainous!) airport-capable!? Well, I am test-flying the Katalina and its only two problems are a) looks (which I've never cared about) and b) the jitters at rest on its landing gear that prevent you from making a quick save. To those interested, the solution is simple: raise the gear and sit it on its pontoons! Embark/disembark; save state: no worries. Raise the gear again when ready to go. And, I notice, if you cycle the gear, no jitters! Great work! I now have an air/sea rescue for outlanders!

Before I reinvent some wheel, I want to outline a mod I'd be really enthused to prototype myself and have been thinking about ever since I first opened up a .sfs inside an editor. Recently, I really enjoyed this Regional Jet Challenge topic and had a blast flying some of the entries! I've also started looking today at the Simple Refuel 0.2 mod with interest. I do not think I want to write a full KSP mod (not yet anyway) but I can write a (hokey) prototype in which you hit f5 to save; run a Tool to edit the savefile; then hit f9 to reload the modified save file. Yeah, I know... (And, yeah, of course it would make progressive backups of the files before edits!) So what I want the tool to do is support operations at 2 Space Centers (KSC and the Inland KSC) and to support a regional aviation network based on airports hubs and also thereby to support the same on e.g. lo-grav moons. When the tool is run, its objectives are: move any craft deployed on KSC R9 to an appropriate place on the grass at Inland KSC for either an easterly or south-easterly departure; similarly, move any craft deployed on the launchpad at KSC to the launchpad at Inland KSC; refuel all craft within the precincts of both KSC and Inland KSC refuel all craft at "hub airports" The value of the Inland KSC is that it forces some non-equatorial launches. So, I am going to define a regional airport as any place that has 2 flags (runway end markers) between 600-1000 meters apart. [Name contains "Rn"] Usually, a rover would be parked for local use. I would further define an airport hub to be one that has a control tower and two intersecting runways, marked by 4 flags: long runway is 1000-1500m and the short is between 600-1000m. The tower must be located somewhere inside the four flags. A tower is defined as a cupola suspended >= 10m above the surface. (I have a vehicle that is composed of a main body of cupola and 4 HitchHikers.) The name should end with "Airport". Any stationary vehicle parked within 50m of the tower gets refueled when the Tool executes. Some tighter standards for runway slope and levelness might also apply so that larger craft could land and in order to force a distinction between regional and hub airports. I think the nature of this mod somewhat supplants the activity and challenges of drilling and refining fuel, but not completely. Getting the "control tower" transported and located (especially to a pinpointed location) might not be so easy. What I like about refining fuel is that it gives a good motivation to make many ascent/descent trips to the surface to fuel a space station in orbit and its visiting clientele. Well, that would still occur. I also experimented with a xenon-powered flitter for regional travel on the Mun. But there's no way to refuel xenon in the standard game. This Tool would replenish xenon, just like any other kind of tank. I think the idea of Colonization may extend the boundaries of KSP way out from mere Exploration? Maybe there are some mods out there that I should pay attention to or study in detail or that achieve the bulk of what I want to do? Suggestions, comments?

Same thing happened, I believe, upgrading to 1.2.1. Radiators became less efficient or drills became hotter to operate. I haven't tried them in 1.3 yet, but now not looking forward to it.

Upgraded to 1.3, so thought I'd give this stock plane a spin. In orbit, only on Puffer power, as you mentioned. I have more or less concluded that, though one has the main engines and though one has the fuel/oxi, there's no way to feed the fuel to the engines and Very Low Kerbin Orbit is about the best one can manage with this. For want of a directly-connected tank and some fuel connectors... That right?

Exactly right. Last year in about August or so, I used Steam to upgrade to 1.2.1 or so and Steam (on Linux Mint) was having conniptions. By the time it had finished, it had deleted all my saves and Ships. What saved my butt was that I had just recently copied my KSP universe to another computer, which effectively became the backup that saved my life. Since then, I play out of another directory, far, far, far away from Steam's grubby paws. So today, I thought, "OK, I will bite the bullet and upgrade to 1.3". All the mods I want seem available and I've downloaded then. I can't run Steam now on my Mint 18.2 system and I think it's because I installed a new Nvidia graphics card earlier this year. Steam can't find a 32-bit libGL.so to use. I have lib-gl1-mesa-glx:i386 installed. It may just be out of date. Anyway, it's a really good idea to move KSP out of Steam. I believe that way you could maintain multiple KSP versions simultaneously (as swjr-swis does). Edit: Happy ending and of use to other Mint 18.2 users: upgrading to the latest nvidia-384(?) reinstated my X server and permitted Steam to work again. If you run Linux, check out Aptik for a useful utility to remember and re-install your packages (over system upgrades) or in emergencies.

You might be interested to know that I found some coconut shells in the cargo bay after one of your test flights and was able to identify them as the kind carried by Hawaiian swallows, of all things! Perhaps that clears up a mystery(?).

Excellent! All of Kerbin has opened up to me now. Thanks for dealing with me on 1.2.1. (I'm inspired to upgrade now.)