dboi88

Ok guys there are a few things here that i thing need clearing up just so as to not mislead others This is not correct,a logistics module can only follow the basic logistics rules for Scavenging and Planteray Logistics and therefore does not have access to pull from any 'warehouse' on the planet. It can only push and pull from the virtual planetary warehouse. All transfers directly between two vessels are strictly using the scavenging mechanics so have a 150m or 2km range. In your example you would need a logistics module on both bases. Then one will push to Planetary Logistics and the other will pull from Planetary Logistics. The transfer is never direct. The logistics modules only need to be piloted to pull, they can push without a pilot/quartermaster. No it can't currently pull from warehouses not directly attached to it so yes you do currently have to store it up and then transfer using local logistics every now and again. This wasn't a problem when Warehouse Distribution was a thing. I'd really like that back to be honest, or the ability for warehouses to dump to PL as long as a piloted logistics module is in range. @RoverDude would you consider a change to bring back Warehouse Distribution? @voicey99 I find the only slow down i get with MKS is when i have lots and lots of converters running, still 27fps on the below base but still a lot lower than normal. Is there a chance the big base that ran smoothly had everything turned off and the one that tanks your fps had everything turned on?

Top left of his screenshot

Check out the KSPedia entry. It has all the wheel orientation diagrams.

An easier check would be to Hyperedit a stock base to the same location. Any landed craft should experience the same hop. I'm convinced you guys have the answer here. @Kobymaru try turning up terrain settings?

Best solution I can think of would be to set all drills to action group to easily switch them back on. Unless this is also causing the catch up to think the drills weren't running at all while it was unfocused? If that's the case there is probably nothing you could do until a fix is found.

@voicey99 His bases are being lifted and then placed down one by one, most importantly before physics kicks in. So the ground tether i'd guess would have no effect until physics kicks in. @Kobymaru That's definitely not stock, i'd start with going through your mods and see if any of them do this. edit: i can't be sure of that

ok . . . . Because that's simply not what is happening. He's is NOT shipping them to another base EVER no matter the size of the container. Planetary Logistics If the warehouse has too much stuff, it puts it in storage. If it has too little, it pulls it out. It's a warehouse you send your extra too, so that 1, it isn't wasted, 2 you can use it elsewhere. Scavenging When a vessel is short on stuff, the Kerbals can grab what they need from nearby vessels and debris. This is simulating Kerbals running around going about their daily business. It's reasonable to expect a Kerbal not to die from lack of supplies when they are next door, it's also reasonable to get the supplies from 2km away when there is a rover sat outside for him to use. Now do you consider it reasonable that they would drive what could be 100's of km to deliver a few supplies? I hope not. It's reasonable to expect a Crew to ship off their extra resources to be stored somewhere. It's reasonable to expect a crew to put in an order for more resources out of the stockpile when needed. But is it reasonable from a game play perspective that your crew would automatically manage complex delivery networks planet wide without any intervention? You might not have realized but what you were actually suggesting is to extend Scavenging to be planet wide. Which in my opinion and i'm sure i'm not alone would be massively overpowered. It's not a case of a coding problem, i'm sure of that. It's a Logical problem, no one likes illogical mechanics. In my opinion playing with Scavening planetwide would be horrible. I'd have resources being sent all over the place and i'd never know where they went. Bear in mind i currently have 23 bases across Minmus, but a good test of any mechanic is to scale it up or down, it should always work. The real beauty of RoverDude's logistics mechanics is that they follow such simple rules and you'd have to start adding in tweaks and exceptions to make it work over longer distances without causing other problems, but then those rules would cause further problems and it snowballs from there. This is a nice idea, but ultimately i can't accept that this isn't anything other than a craft and base design issue. Glad you think so. I honestly think this is your best idea. I hope it works out for you.

Correct, i believe he already has one at either end. To be honest i have to stay away from lots of small none connected bases to avoid slow frame rates.

@tseitsei89 & @Parmenio here is an even simpler way. Put a small storage container on your main base, something like a redi pack. Turn off warehouse on your kontainer and then trf resources into the small kontainer. The extra will dump to PL but will not come back because warehouse has been turned off on the large container. You can then completely control how much is sent to PL by doing this. You can do this with KIS/KAS by sending a KIS kontainer with a new storage tank.

If you can also provide a save file with a craft located somewhere that is currently experiencing the issue then that'll make troubleshooting/confirming the bug even easier.

I doubt it is supposed to be that way. Try a clean install with only USI mods installed and see if it is still present.

@tseitsei89 Can you clarify what distance apart the two bases are? If within 150m you can use the scavenging logistics mechanic which will do direct transfers between the two completely negating the issues with PL. This range can be extended to 2km using the Karibou Rover. A guide to Scavenging

You simple used the wrong part for the job. Nothing wrong with that, you didn't previously understand the mechanic. But that doesn't 1 make it stupid or 2 give any basis to change it for you. There's still plenty of uses for all sized containers. Plus remember they are shipping containers. We have plenty of other kontainers more appropriate for storage on basis.

@tseitsei89 the advice from @Parmenio is good. The most important point is there will be no direct transfer of resources. So you need to fill up your supplies tank and push into PL, then you can pull back out on the other end. So if you leave the bases for a long time make sure you always go to your supplies producing base first so that the catch up is performed. That will refill PL, THEN go to your mining rig which will pull back out. Do it the other way and there might not be enough supplies. That goes for all multi base resource chain set ups that are outside scavenging range, start at the drills →refinerys&crushers→assembly plants&greenhouses→hab bases.

Yep that's exactly how i understood your suggestions , i had the exact same idea and @DStaal has done a really nice job with the markdown layouts so far with the tables and headers ect. and @notthebobo has done really well in keeping us all on task and instep So one main section where we have all the main crafts covered using the parts all exactly as intended that we all mostly agree on as being appropriate for new users and that showcases MKS as RD intends it to be used. But then anyone else can put their own spin on things, include other mods, showcase different play styles that others might consider 'cheaty', include other mods that they feel work well with USI ect. ect. I don't even know how to do that and some searches i've done today haven't been particularly helpful, maybe using gitshell will open up loads of possibilities? i just don't know. Hopefully someone will come along with more Git experience. We'll give it a few days and see if anyone comes out the woodwork.

I can confirm this. Exact same behavior in a stock + USI only game. Same versions as above. I get the log spam constantly with the colonization modules in VAB, stops as soon as the part is deleted, i get one nullReference on the pioneers and medbays. "NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object"

Yeah i agree that does need updating to confirm the new changes. I'm also working on a new set of diagrams for the different logistics functions as well that i hope to get up on the wiki/into the KSPedia entry shortly Part 1. I've added that note about pushing without a pilot and confirmation of the two parts that currently enable PL. I'll leave out the references to PartModules as most new players would have no idea what that was anyway so i feel that would only add further confusion. Thanks for your suggestions, they are really helpful. ps, if you ever wanna drop me a PM with any questions you might have i'm always happy to help, I've a couple of people i'm currently guiding through their first bases.

Hehe, i was going to ask that we let @DStaal do the formatting I've not much else to add, only that what i'd like to see is a general page that we all sort of/mostly agree on as the 'basics' and then everyone who wants to have their own page where they add they're own craft files in their own style with their own explanations. There are so many different ways to play KSP + MKS that only having one section would be a dis-service but trying to get everything into one page/section could simply be more overwhelming than helpful. So we'd have our craft and bases example but finish it off with a 'be sure to check out some more user examples over here[link to a page full of other peoples stuff]. I feel this would also help to achieve agreement on the contents of main page because if everyone can go and do their own bit in their own way and know it'll be fully supported from the main pages people will be much less inclined to argue what should and shouldn't be on the main page. I think people would be much happier to concede points this way. Ok so onto the GitHub repo. Has anyone got any experience with GIT? I've not really done any collaborations before and i assumed i could allow part of my KSPedia repo to be editable but it doesn't seem to work like that. So i see a few options. 1. I make it fully public and risk someone screwing it all up, not sure if that's a possibility or not? or whether it's easy enough to revert if anyone did screw it up? so any advice on this point will be appreciated. 2. I give limited users access (you guys commenting here anyone else that requests it. My personal preference 3. Set up a seperate repo for the MKSWiki but that would involve moving all the images over to there and then fixing all the links on the wiki. Or would it? i don't know, so again any advice on this point would be appreciated. 4. do something with the protected branch function, but i've no idea what because i don't really understand what it does. What is everyone else's thoughts?

That's the exact behavior i get with the root part issue. I'm now quite confident that this is your issue. I made that it's in the KSPedia entry too. edit: available here if anyone else needs it https://github.com/BobPalmer/MKS/wiki/Functions:-Konstruction

Hmm, most likely caused by one of those two docking ports being the root part. They will not dock when one of them becomes the root part. I can only suggest playing with KAS pipes until one of the KAS connectors becomes the root part. Or you could do what i do in my career saves, if something breaks because of a bug then the cheat menu comes out. I'll replace the craft that's causing the issue with one faked into orbit with money added through the cheat menu. There are images in the KSPedia entry showing the correct orientation for each of the wheels. It's easy to get them the wrong way.

"It needs to be clearer and different" is not a solution. A solution would be to propose a new description. That's never been done. I can fully accept that people can still be confused and they can ask questions but that does not = vague. Who's cutting and pasting part descriptions when people ask for help? I provided the exact part that he needed and he ignored that and put a different part on then asked why it wasn't working he even qouted me while asking why it wasn't working. Copy and pasting the part descriptions was in my response to you and your claim that they are vague. They are not You are correct the people asking for help are not attacking anyones work (well 99% of them anyway) Its you that is attacking the work others have done as being 'vague'. That is what I've taken umbridge too.

I was a new user when 1.2 came out. At that point the Wiki was woefully out of date due to all the changes and most of the answers given in the thread previously were now obsolete due to the changes. Yet with a couple of days of reading through the part descriptions and playing in SandBox i was able to mostly work everything out and then i wrote the KSPedia and helped update the Wiki. I simple can't agree that is is vague. If you understood the amount of work me and many many others have put into doing with Wiki (including going through variation upon variation of descriptions and guides trying to make sure everything is clear as it can be) and KSPedia(over 200 hours spent) you'd understand why it rubs me up the wrong way for someone to claim it is 'vague'. Especially when that person clearly wasn't fully reading the responses they were getting in the first place. If you can't even read a response from someone trying to help then i'm not sure i'd believe they've read through all the documentation either. In regards to your points. 1. And if you look at the logistics pages in wiki and KSPedia you'd have already been aware that there was more than one type of logistic so this shouldn't be a confusing point. 2.How more clear can you make it that it is a combined that naming it Pioneer/Logistics module and mentioning in the description? 3. Again fully explained in both the wiki and KSPedia entry 4. Considering warehouse has been depreciated and doesn't exist in either the wiki or KSpedia entry it can only mean scavenging and a new user wouldn't consider this at all. I know you've had trouble understanding things in the past and have made a lot of these points before, but have you ever proposed a solution? I don't understand why you would think there would be different descriptions in different places. If these descriptions were different then they'd just be wrong. If you feel you can elaborate further than others already have and provide a clearer understanding then we'd literally love for you to do so.

As you've confirmed it is an issue with USI-LS the discussion should be had here. Doesn't seem to be an issue anyone has noted before. I've not personally noticed any issues. If this is still unresolved when i'm back at my rig i'll take a look and confirm. Around 10 hours from now.

No you need the duna logistics module or the Tundra Pioneer - Logistics Module. What's 'vague' about this? "Designed to be one of the first parts of a long term colony, the Pioneer module features local logistics capabilities, basic training facilities, recycling facilities for life support, KerbNet access, and survey station capabilities for off-world construction. Includes Logistics functionality that allows the vessel (and the resource warehouses attached directly to it) to participate in planetary logistics, taking or storing resources in planetary stockpiles" That's the description in game, on the wiki and the KSPedia entry for the MKS Tundra Pioneer - Logistics Module The Planetary Logistics section of the wiki and kspedia note that "A piloted Logistics Module is required for the craft to take part." The description for Duna Logistics Center? "The Logistics Center allows the vessel (and the resource warehouses attached directly to it) to participate in planetary logistics, taking or storing resources in platetary stockpiles."

We used to have Orbital Logistics. It's planned for something to replace this again at some point.