TelluriumCrystal
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Posts posted by TelluriumCrystal
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Another rules question: can people be allowed to use the mods that mod the KOS mod itself?
I don't have a problem with this. I went ahead and added Sensor Reporter to the rules. Also note that a non-official version of kOS is, for all intents and purposes (at least in my mind), not kOS. I'm going to edit the rules to clarify this.
Also, as far as the loop issue goes, unless it is demonstrated to be a clear and impassible barrier for longer missions, I see no reason to allow persistence editing.
I also see no reason not to allow multiple videos, both for computational reasons and because some of us might not have the time to perform the longer missions all in one go.
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Do you mean this part?
"Also note that only the first craft to leave Kerbin orbit counts towards any points."
It would be a good idea to make it clear that you are allowed to assemble this ship out of pieces and split this ship apart later, so long as it's one ship when it leaves Kerbin orbit. People might not think of an assembled collection as "one craft" and might not realize what you meant.
Good point. I went ahead and added another sentence to clarify that.
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I see a nasty potential cheat exploit in how the rules are set up. The rules as they stand now allow multiple launches into Kerbin orbit and only after you leave Kerbin orbit with one of them are you not allowed to launch more. As long as you do this your launches get to be called "one mission composed of separate launches", even though they were designed and they operate entirely independently of each other. So I make one mission that gets to the Mun and back and test it. Then I make another mission that goes to Duna and Ike and I test it. Then i make another mission that goes to Eve and Gilly and back and I test it.
Thanks for pointing that out. I made a small modification to the rules that should prevent that from being possible.
And another entry.Mission plan:
Kerbin orbit
Minmus orbit
Minmus landing
Minmus orbit
Mun orbit
Mun landing
Mun orbit
Kerbin landing (without parachute!!
).~snip~
Code + Craft:
Wow, that's the best so far! Nice work. Impressive powered landing too.
Adding your second attempt to the leaderboards now...
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It occurs to me that a major hurdle to getting the multi-planet missions is the inability to undock a docking port. That makes it impossible to perform an apollo-style landing where a small craft goes down to land, then comes back up and re-docks with the command module. That, in turn, makes it impossible to save fuel by keeping most of it up out of the gravity well. So if you want to land on two different bodies, for example, you need to take all your fuel you planned to use for the second body's intercept and landing down with you to the ground on the first landing and then lift it all back up again.
See the below quote from the main post.
4. Decoupling small probes and/or undocking/docking follow the same rules as the above. All control inputs must come from a kOS unit. Note that due to the inability of kOS to use docking ports, you may manually undock craft (rule 3 limitations apply). -
Ok, here is my entry:
A probe, that:
1) Enters stable Kerbin orbit.
2) Enters Mun SOI.
3) Enters stable Mun orbit.
4) Lands of the Mun.
5) Enters stable Mun orbit again!
6) Goes back to Kerbin.
7) Lands on Kerbin (via parachutes).
Nice work! I'll add you to the leaderboards.
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Thrfoot,
how adamant are you on the "no mods allowed" rule? I've got a rocket able to land on the Mün and go back to Kerbin, and the only mod it uses is Procedural Fairings - after those got introduced I just can't fly anything without them
Seeing that posting the craft file is listed as optional - is it ok? If not I'll take em out.
Will post the required screenshots and code after I get home from work tonight.
And another thing - how reliable must the mission be to count? My lander code does not take slope information into account - so sometimes it will land on the Mün, topple and break apart
But other times it is fine.1. Unless you have a health condition that would put you in physical distress if you launched without fairings, I'd prefer it if you omitted them from the competition launch (feel free to use them during testing though). Posting a craft file is optional unless the validity of your design is challenged, in which case it becomes mandatory.
Your craft can be as unreliable as you want – it just has to work successfully when you attempt the challenge.
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(A) So, thrfoot, with your new scoring, do you mean a cumulative total of achieving all those things on different missions or achieving them in one single mission? Because this one for example:
10 points - Enter the SOI of all bodies in the Kerbol system
I'm not even sure is possible to do on a single *manual* mission, given the massive fuel requirements, and that since it's worth more than doing it for "only" 10 bodies, you must be including the moons as well. You can't enter the SOI of all moons of Jool, for example, unless you get captured by Jool. So when you have to do that for all moons, you're not just talking flybys but captures( which then gets rid of any slingshot fuel savings). That just sounds utterly impossible even without doing it in software.
See my comment at the bottom.
(
New bodies get added by KSP updates sometimes, and there's more bodies planned for the future. So be careful with phrasings like "all the bodies in the Kerbol system", as their meaning changes when updates come out. It's probably best to use explicit numbers so the challenge doesn't become harder or easier as Squad changes the number of bodies..If and when Squad adds more planets/bodies I will update the point values to be compatible. Because I don't see this happening any time in the foreseeable future, I think it's safe to leave it as is for now.
© Getting to a planet that's at a different inclination or has an eliptical eccentricity presents more of a challenge. Should the score reflect this? Right now, Duna is worth the same amount of points as Moho, for example, but Moho is a LOT harder because of the need to deal with inclination.Good point, but keep in mind in order to get the extremely high point planet achievements you would have to visit more planets, of which Moho inevitably becomes one.
Maybe I missed it somewhere, but is there a deadline for this challenge, or is it on-going?There is no deadline. I intend to keep this challenge running as long as there is interest.
The current point values were set up to encourage people to visit more bodies at once, as this will lead to greater returns points-wise. Also, as several people have pointed out, most of these challenges are somewhat unreasonable for completion in one launch. In light of this I will be allowing multiple launches for each mission.
From here on out I will try to refrain from modifying scoring, so assume that these are the final values.
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Ok, I'm just going to completely overhaul the scoring system. This will probably result in changing the existing scores, but I don't think the order will change. I'll also list what people earned points for under their entries in the leader boards.
I wonder about "multi probe-kOS" mission. Will it be valid?Lets say i create ship with 2 kOS modules. I launch it to Kerbin orbit, split and head one to Mun, second to Minmus. (Apparently not in one time, because kOS rather wont work simultanously on two distant ships - but no problem, i can wait on stable orbit with one ship. ). Or maybe i could launch one into injection trajectory, then switch to second. Kerbal Alarm Clock would be probably usefull. But i'm not sure what will happen with running program in kOS after switching to another vessel....
You're allowed to have more than one kOS module on your ship, and can use them to create multiple vessels once in orbit. However, due to limitations in how kOS runs (as you have already discovered) you cannot switch vessels with active code running. Thus, you are probably limited to only deploying probes/ships/landers while in a stable orbit. Once they are deployed you can execute their programming separately.
Edit: Done with the scoring modifications. How does everyone like it?
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What? Thought we didn't get points for stable orbit around Kerbol? Or did you mean Interstellar?
Still, getting to both is basically "lock steering to up. when altitude>70000 then lock steering to prograde. lock throttle to 1. if stage:liquidfuel < 1 {stage.}" and then over engineering the ship to have enough dV to burn into Kerbol SOI (interplanetary space) or blast out of the solar system into interstellar space.
Interplanetary space is easier than a circular orbit around Kerbin, from kOS programming point of view anyway. (and if you're just going for cheap points, not a real mission)
I'll happily go fetch my quick 10 points if this change sticks, while building my RT network is taking my time away from attempting this for realz :/
I'd say max 1 point for entering interplanetary(or -stellar) space, but returning from interplanetary space could be worth points
That's actually a good point. I'm going to go change a few things about how points are awarded real quick.
I'm trying to create incentives to head out to other planets, so that people are more motivated to attempt more complex missions. Currently you will earn more points by returning to Kerbin than you do by simply entering interplanetary space, so unless you're actually headed somewhere it isn't too much of a advantage to go there.
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It would only be a violation if I did it at a time other than when you're allowed to type commands.
I only do it at times where the challenge allows you to type commands. And all it does is type the command. All it does is load the next bit of software and run it. If anything I actually made it HARDER for myself by doing that, as I can't adjust to changed circumstances and all I can do is tell the program to continue to the next step. I can't change my mind and tell it to run with different parameters.
If anyone challenges it I'll go waste some time re-recording it with the pauses replaced with hardcoded waits to prove it.
No, it's fine. Because you cannot get kOS to read input yet (e.x. "Input 'yes' to continue or 'no' to abort") I see no reason this would be a rule violation. For all intents and purposes it is, in fact, a console command.
As far as confirming a command for a burn while not in a stable orbit goes, I think that's ok since it does not alter the way the code executes. If you were to input important information mid-transfer (e.x. when to burn or how long) then it would be in violation of the rules.
Hope this clears things up.
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Well if I'd have known that I'd have done a different mission.
If you reserve the right to add new sources of points after submissions have come in, then I only think it's fair that get the right to re-submit after such a change has been made.
There are no limits to the number of submissions you make. By all means, if you think you can do better, go for it!
The only reason I added that point award was to motivate people to leave Kerbin's SOI. It wouldn't be all that interesting if nobody ever visited other the planets, now would it?
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My entry. (Note: Youtube is still processing the video so the following link might not work right away. If it doesn't work, try back again in a few hours.)
~snip~
Code and craft file posted here:
https://drive.google.com/?authuser=0#folders/0Bxkeai7oN35fUFNtZW15Tm12WGM
Some screenshots:
~snip~
Nice work! Your's is certainly the most impressive entry thus far.
Looks like you've earned a total of 32 points. I've added you to the leader board.
In other news I added a new point award: 10 points if your craft enters interplanetary space.
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I also managed to get some points. Here is video:
I decided that video would be best to show "brute force" approach in node creation (jump to 3:48 time )
.Kerbin stable orbit: 3 points
Mun SOI: 1 point
Mun stable orbit: 3 points
Total: 7 points.
Amazing work! Those maneuver node techniques were brilliant! I'm going to have to start trying that.
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Just a little update to say still working on my Biome Sensor.
I can't help myself, I'll not stop till it's perfect. Wasn't happy with the 80s PC cream colour.
~snip~
Not long, moving forward quickly now
This is very well done! Nice work!
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I'd like to claim 3 points for a Kerbin orbit for the Kerbal Robotic Mission Project. After polishing the LaunchToOrbit, Atmosphere script we now are able to accurately and reliably launch to low Kerbin orbits. In a historic mission Orbiter 3 launched to orbit. Enclosed find proof of the endeavor. The LaunchToOrbit script and the mission toolkit v2 has been published on the kOS wiki.
And we have our first successful mission! Nice job!
I still can't get my kOS to work (likely due to a mod conflict), so I'm not going to be able to attempt this for some time.
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Currently KOSscript has no way to let you extend antennae, which sort of matters for trying to obtain data from the archive. The only way to make antenae extended is to do it manually with a right-click. Otherwise they start retracted on the launchpad and that's it they stay that way because no script program can extend them.
Can we make that another manual task exception too? That we're allowed to manually extend the antennae to get around this problem?
If you bind things to action groups you can get kOS to do stuff with them. This is how I got it to open the solar panels on my vessel.
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Ok, I rewrote it. I'm going to try running BOdeorbit once I finish my Chemistry homework.
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Huh, I have no idea what that little arrow might be. I can't find anything about it on the internets. Maybe its some sort of keystroke indicator that isn't commonly displayed? Or maybe it's just something only Opera shows?
I'm pretty sure it isn't the cause of my troubles though.
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that arrow thingy is new, it wasn't in your previous paste, does it exist in your in game script? (the character didn't even want to come through the quote, had to manually c&p it from your post
)I… um… what arrow thingy? I see nothing but my code there, and there certainly wasn't one in my original code.
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What if the submission involved having to post up code files and a .craft file somewhere along with the screenshots? The proof that it's really the code is that someone else can download it and run it. (which means you'd also need instructions with it, like "run this program, then this one, then wait until X condition and run that one.")
The nice thing about that is that it would result in a nice repository of different examples after the contest is done.
Check the main post again. I sort of already did this. It's only optional, however, to post your code and craft file unless someone challenges your claim. I don't want to force people to make their code and craft public if for some strange reason they don't want to. Regardless I fully expect everyone to put up their code and craft files. *peer pressure*
(EDIT: I tend to prefer to indent my code well and comment it well, and as such I usually run it through a little perl script to strip comments and indents before running it on KOS which penalizes you for good style. This means I'd probably want to post both versions of the code - the stripped version to actually execute and the unstripped version so it's legible and you can read it. The unstripped version might not run because it would exceed 10kb.)Nobody's stopping you from uploading a well-commented version or a non-commented version. If you have a more legible version of your code then by all means, share it with us!
can you change the rules so mods are allowed? they dont give that big a advantage at all, unlike what most people think.The enforced use of stock parts simplifies the verification of entries (if necessary). If any mods were allowed then it would become very complicated to verify things as I would have to download every mod the user had on the craft in order to load and test it myself. I am not against mods (I have around 10 myself), it just doesn't make sense for this challenge. I hope you understand.
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Behold! I bring to you a decently thorough bug report!
Installed mods:
- City Lights & Clouds
- Automatic Vertical Velocity and Altitude Control
- Navball Docking Indicator
- Kerbal Engineer
- Kerbal Joint Reinforcement
- Kethane
- kOS (obviously)
- Near Future Propulsion Pack
- RealChute
- SCANsat
- Science Log Manager
- Steam Guages
- TreeLoader
- Universe Replacer (just for the skybox)
There are two scripts being used here. The first is ExecuteLaunch (my first kOS script
):
clearscreen.
print "Launching in 5".
wait 1.
print "4".
wait 1.
print "3".
wait 1.
print "2".
wait 1.
print "1".
wait 1.
print "Engine Ignition".
set x to 0.5.
lock STEERING to UP - R(0,0,90).
lock THROTTLE to 0.5.
stage.
until x > 0.95 {
lock THROTTLE to x.
set x to x + 0.05.
wait 0.01.
}
lock THROTTLE to 1.
wait 0.5.
print "Liftoff".
stage.
wait until ALTITUDE > 9000.
print "Beginning gravity turn".
set x to 0.
until x > 59 {
lock STEERING to UP - R(0,x,90).
set x to x+1.
wait 0.5.
}
wait until APOAPSIS > 90000.
print "Waiting for circulation burn".
lock THROTTLE to 0.
lock STEERING to PROGRADE.
wait until ETA:APOAPSIS < 5.
print "Executing circulation burn".
set x to 0.
until x > 0.95 {
lock THROTTLE to x.
set x to x +0.05.
wait 0.01.
}
lock THROTTLE to 1.
wait until STAGE:LIQUIDFUEL < 1.
lock THROTTLE to 0.
stage.
lock THROTTLE to 1.
wait until PERIAPSIS > 85000.
lock THROTTLE to 0.
print "Welcome to space".
wait 5.The second is BOdeorbit:
//This should deorbit the [AUTO] Basic Orbiter
print "Beginning deorbit burn".
lock STEERING to RETROGRADE.
wait 3.
set x to 0.
until x > 1 {
lock THROTTLE to x.
set x to x + 0.05.
wait 0.01.
}
lock THROTTLE to 1.
wait until periapsis < 0.
lock THROTTLE to 0.
unlock STEERING.
wait until ALTITUDE < 45000.
toggle AG1.
print "Retracting solar panels".
wait until ALTITUDE < 5000.
stage.
print "Parachute deployed".
wait until ALT:RADAR < 10.
print "Touchdown imminent".
wait 5.The series of events are as follows:
Javascript is disabled. View full album
Will upload persistence and/or craft file on request.
Hope this somehow sheds some light on the situation.
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Question:
1. How do I submit a candidate? Post the code? Post screenshots?
Build a rocket to execute your code, and submit screenshots of you performing the mission with said rocket. Map view screenshots are necessary to prove that you have entered either a stable orbit or the SOI of another object. I'll add this to the main post so others know what to do as well. Not sure how I forgot to add this.
Comment:2. Interplanetary transfers are dependent on the timing and where the planets are. I am not sure how planets and moons are located in a new game but to make sure the script does not rely on those externally given timings I'd ask all contenstants' scripts to start only after a wait random(sidereal rotation period of the target planet/moon), random(...) providing a number between 1 and the argument. That way the target body will be in an arbitrary position on its orbit when the script starts.
I'm not sure this is necessary or not. It should be possible for engineers to set up a hardcoded maneuver using pre-calculated burns (they did this for Apollo, right?), so I'm not sure the code necessarily has to be dynamic. I might add bonus points if it is though.
3. I disagree on the use of warp when its only use is to bridge thrustless time between two maneuver burns. As long as it is transparent to Kerbal engineers whether a wait passes the time or actually warps there. In my scripts you could replace warpfor(dt) by wait dt and the behavior wouldn't change - just the real time to get there.Currently warp is the only thing you are allowed to control manually during program execution. You can choose to do it yourself or have your program do it for you. I'm not entirely sure what point you are trying to argue here.
4. Does it make sense to add a "Docking" challenge?I'm not sure this is reasonably possible with the current version of kOS. I could be wrong though, as I'm no expert. If someone manages to pull it off, I'll add a point reward for it.
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I am having some strange issues, and may have run into a bug. The following happens after I launch my rocket into orbit using a kOS program I wrote:
run BOdeorbit.
Error on line 2: Syntax Error.The code of the program "BOdeorbit" is as follows:
// This should deorbit the [AUTO] Basic Orbiter
print "Beginning deorbit burn".
lock STEERING to RETROGRADE.
wait 3.
set x to 0.
until x > 1 {
lock THROTTLE to x.
set x to x + 0.05.
wait 0.01.
}
lock THROTTLE to 1.
wait until PERIAPSIS < 0.
lock THROTTLE to 0.
unlock STEERING.
wait until ALTITUDE < 45000.
toggle AG1.
print "Retracting solar panels".
wait until ALT:RADAR < 5000.
stage.
print "Parachute deployed".
wait until ALT:RADAR < 10.
print "Touchdown imminent".
wait 5.Am I missing something here?
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Can I have a program run another program? For example my orbital ascent script is in two parts, one to get it out of the athmo, at which point the program will call my circularizing program and pass some parameters to it.I have the same question. The way it's phrased I *suspect* is not what Thrfoot meant. The way it's phrased it technically means you can't run two programs in parallel on two different SCS units either. I suspect the *intended* meaning is that the USER isn't allowed to manually type "run programname" from the terminal window until another has finished, but that a PROGRAM is allowed to run another program before it itself is finished.
Steven Mading is right, I intended to say the user can't do something like manually end the program and start a new one, and that new manually started programs cannot be run until in a stable orbit or landed on a body. If a program runs another program as a part of its programming, then for all intents and purposes it is just one big program. So yes, you can start another program from an already running program.
Leme go rephrase that in the main post for clarity.
Just want to make sure, when you say Kerbol you mean the sun? So launching from Kerbin, we're already in its SOI so I guess that doesn't count, but establishing a stable Kerbin orbit would count I imagine.Yes, Kerbol is basically the Sun (I prefer using Kerbol, and the Kerbol system to describe the local star system), and establishing a stable orbit around Kerbin does count. Since you are already in Kerbin's SOI there is no "entering" to be done and thus no extra points. Hope that helped clarify.
).
New bodies get added by KSP updates sometimes, and there's more bodies planned for the future. So be careful with phrasings like "all the bodies in the Kerbol system", as their meaning changes when updates come out. It's probably best to use explicit numbers so the challenge doesn't become harder or easier as Squad changes the number of bodies..
)
[kOS] The Automated Mission Challenge
in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
Posted · Edited by Thrfoot
Oh wow, I hadn't picked up on that. In that case I guess I have no choice but to allow persistence editing. Thanks for pointing that out!
Nice work! I can't actually view it right now (everything is blocked at school), but I should be able to verify your entry later today and add it to the leaderboards. Edit: Verified and added!
I am uncertain what you mean by this. Please elaborate.
Sorry but no. Because kOS is capable of generating and reading maneuver nodes by itself I can't allow it to be done manually.
I believe one of the earlier entries did this quite well. Let me got get a link for you... Edit: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/58068-kOS-The-Automated-Mission-Challenge/page5?p=783499#post783499