TaranisElsu

The reasons for the three separate resources include (but are not limited to): More realism Resources recycle using different processing with different resulting efficiencies. It is currently set up so that you can recapture 90% of the water, but only ~86% of the oxygen. In-situ resource collection. NASA has figured out how to extract Oxygen from the lunar regolith (dirt)(not economically yet though) and there might be some water there, but you definitely won't find any food there. Did you know that they do not ship any oxygen up to the ISS? They only ship water and food. Water is safer to deal with and they use electrolysis to get the necessary oxygen. And they use the Sabatier recycling process to recapture some of the oxygen from the carbon dioxide the crew is exhaling. It outputs water and methane. They are talking about using the methane (which is waste right now) to fuel the return trip from Mars. So imagine that, you are breathing out something that could be converted to fuel to power a space craft.

Where did you get your numbers? The sources I found vary a lot, but what seems to be the most recent one (http://ston.jsc.nasa.gov/collections/trs/_techrep/CR-2004-208941.pdf, Table 4.3.7) gives 0.66 kg/CM-d for food dry mass, 1.37 kg for "as shipped" and 2.38 kg for "as consumed" (after being rehydrated). I posted my numbers here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aioc9ek3XAvwdGNsRlh3OVhlbTFBR3M4RW0zLUNTRFE&usp=sharing And I created a place to discuss the balancing here: https://github.com/taraniselsu/TacLifeSupport/issues/24 P.S. water doesn't "go bad", but it can pick up flavors from the storage container that gives it a strange taste. And probably contains stuff that you don't want to ingest.

*NEVER* just download the files from Github unless you want to muck around in the source. Download from the releases page instead (https://github.com/taraniselsu/TacLifeSupport/releases), and make sure that you click one of the green buttons. The file name should always be TacLifeSupport_<version#>.zip. Those are the only files that will contain the compiled DLL and all the other files where they need to be. To clarify, "on rails" and "loaded" are two different things. A vessel is put "on rails" when: (1) you timewarp (at 5x and above), (2) the vessel exits the 2.4 km radius of the active vessel, or (3) you exit the Flight scene. Vessels are "loaded" if they are the active vessel or within 2.4 km of the active vessel. My mod actively works with any vessel that is loaded, even if you are time warping (i.e. on rails). It does not do anything if the vessel is unloaded. When the vessel is next loaded, it does the calculations to catch up consumption since the last time the vessel was loaded making it seem like it was working all along. If a vessel is loaded for the first time, the mod sets the "last update time" to Now and starts tracking consumption. Until then, the mod does not "know" about the vessel and does not track consumption or do anything else with it. TL;DR: A very long response to say that you have all the time in the world to get to those Kerbals (at least until the contract runs out), but once you come within range, you have to get them inside before their life support runs out.

I created an issue here: https://github.com/taraniselsu/TacLifeSupport/issues/24 to get some feedback on resource balancing. I would appreciate it if some of you would take a look and let me know what you think. I will be continuing to work on it over the next few days, and I hope to finish it before KSP 0.24 drops.

I started working on a set of config files to work with TweakScale, but I am not happy with the results yet. I would appreciate some help from someone that knows more about that mod. The files can be found here: https://github.com/taraniselsu/TacLifeSupport/tree/TweakScale/GameData/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportTweakScale. Note that there are three files. An additional concern is that it does not seem to be playing well with ModularFuelTanks (v5.0.3) right now. I am seeing exceptions loading TweakScale_ModularFuelTanks. I have not had time to dig into it, sorry. Thanks for any help Sorry, my spreadsheet is in a bit of a mess right now because I am doing further changes after a conversation with NathanKell and others. Your numbers sound like you are in the right ballpark. If you want the exact values per Kerbin day, multiply the numbers in {KSP}/GameData/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupport/PluginData/TacLifeSupport/LifeSupport.cfg by 21,600 (the number of seconds in 6 hours). That file is created the first time you run KSP after installing the mod. I have uploaded two pre-releases of a version 0.9, but it is still in testing and there are more changes that I want to do before doing a full release. More information here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/40667-0-23-0-23-5-WIP-TAC-Life-Support-0-8-22Dec?p=1259202&viewfull=1#post1259202.

@Bluey, are you using TAC Life Support v0.8 or one of the new pre-releases? This mod has not been balanced for the pre-releases yet, so all the inputs and outputs would be off.

Twice as big does not always mean twice as good or effective or whatever. I really only supplied the bigger recycler parts so that they would fit on larger rockets. I think that 1 part for every 8-9 Kerbals is really easy. Making them work for more might make it too easy. I don't know though. Still working on the balance. You could just open up the settings window by clicking the icon in the Space Center scene. Then click "Enabled". No file editing required. If you have the toolbar installed, make sure the icon is set as visible there. Otherwise if you are missing the icon.... something is wrong.... upload your log file somewhere please. Oops, I must have missed the density values when changing things around. And thank you for pointing me at another source. I will take a look at it. I am working on the next release, v0.9, which changes everything so that the length of the day does not matter anymore, and the displayed values respect the length-of-day setting in the game. See http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/40667-0-23-0-23-5-WIP-TAC-Life-Support-0-8-22Dec?p=1259202&viewfull=1#post1259202 for information about the second pre-release. A full release should come soon. Thank you to everyone who is helping me test it and giving me feedback .

Pre-release #2 of version 0.9 is now available. Changes Added parts that use the ModularFuelTanks mod. They will hide all of the original parts so that there are only 3 containers and 3 hex containers: small, medium, and large. Existing ships with the original parts will not be broken since this only hides the originals and does not delete them, and only if the ModularFuelTanks mod is present. The same warnings apply: this is a pre-release (not fully tested, probably has issues & bugs) and this is not compatible with version 0.8 and before. I also should have mentioned above that I changed the recycling parts so that they are representative of real-world processes. The "Carbon Extractor" uses the Bosch process, and I added a version that uses the Sabatier process. Download from: https://github.com/taraniselsu/TacLifeSupport/releases/tag/v0.9-pre2

Okay, I've looked at your file. 1) Do not run KSP from the Program Files directory. Steam allows you to install to an alternate location. Try that. Don't ask me how, I've never done it . 2) If you are trying to run my latest pre-release, don't. Not until your other mods update to work with it. Or get rid of them until they update. I recommend that you stick with 0.8 for a little while longer. 3) Where did you download this mod (TAC Life Support) from? Make sure you have the right one. It will have a TacLifeSupport.dll file. 4) If you really want to make things work, you will have to do the painful, systematic process of: a) Delete all of your mods. Slowly install them one at a time. c) Run KSP after each one. If it crashes or has problems, you know it was the last mod that you installed. That should help you identify the offending mod or mods. You have a ton of mods, and I am pretty sure your problem is conflicts between them.

It's not downloading for me (using Windows 7 & Google Chrome with FlashBlock and Disconnect). Can you upload to Dropbox, Pastebin, http://hastebin.com/, or another service? Not a bug. I assume that Oxygen is compressed to 200 bar (~2900 psi), which means ~221 L fits in 1 L. Add it to your ship and see how long the Oxygen lasts . I am almost finished with some MFT parts. The main config files are not supposed to add resources to the pods because the MFT-MM config file is supposed to do it. Sorry that they got left out of this release. Would you elaborate on where you are seeing the effects of the rounding? I would like to know where others see it too. But do note that I purposefully rounded the container contents because I do not think the Kerbals would make an Oxygen tank that is 61,033.1914893617 L when they could just make it 61,033 L. Or for the mk1 pod: 228.199151641906 L instead of just 228.20 L.

Where is your log file? And list of installed mods? I cannot begin to help you without those because I do not have enough information yet. You can upload your log file somewhere using Dropbox, Pastebin, or something else. Thank you both, that answered my question My hope is that the Build Aid window in the editor will help with that. Play with it and see if you get a feel for how much of each resource they need.

Yay! I finally got my changes close enough to completion to post a pre-release build. Note: This release is not compatible with previous releases.* This is a pre-release. I have not been able to test it as much as I would like so there probably are some bugs or things that do not quite work as intended. Please do not use this unless you know what you are doing. Change log Includes performance improvements contributed by angavrilov Now uses the textures made by jfjohnny5 Uses fixes to the model contributed by Ninenium Respects the length-of-day game setting (Kerbin 6-hour vs Earth 24-hour) The current vessel's status is now always displayed and is at the top of the monitoring window The Build Aid can now be used in the Editor even when the mod is turned off No longer adds the LifeSupportModule part module or resources in code. Instead it uses a ModuleManager config file. Bug fix: was not using enough electricity at high time warps. Bug fix: should not have been requiring Oxygen for craft flying below a reasonable altitude. The check no longer requires the vessel to have electricity or be landed. Added tweakables so the TAC Converters can be toggled on and off in the editor TAC Converters can now be "alwaysOn" TAC Converters config files are now in units per second. Rebalanced for "1 unit = 1 liter" Note: This release is not compatible with previous releases. Because of changing the definition of a "unit" to mean "1 liter" instead of "1 day of consumption," existing ships' supplies will last for a very different amount of time. Most will have way too little Oxygen (Kerbals now consume ~304 units of Oxygen per 24 hours instead of 1 unit). Also, the mass of supplies has changed in all parts, so your dV and TWR will be very different. These are not horribly breaking changes, but it means you will need to either: (1) edit the amount of resources in existing ships or (2) launch a lot more resources to any existing ships before upgrading. If you have no existing ships with Kerbals aboard, then you do not need to worry and should be safe to upgrade. I recommend you delete the existing directories before installing the new version. Anything in {KSP}/GameData/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupport*/ Download from: https://github.com/taraniselsu/TacLifeSupport/releases/tag/v0.9-pre

"sound of magic 8 ball shaking" Maybe...... I so hope there will be... If all goes well, there should be a new release right before or after 0.24. *crosses fingers* After that, not another release. Ever. Just kidding.

I have no problem with you posting something to help compatibility with other mods. At the very least, I will try to add a link in the OP so others can use it too. I will not guarantee that I will package anything with the mod because I think some things are better left as a separate download for those who want it.

I have not played with TweakScale myself, but I plan to provide (or have others provide) alternate part packs for compatibility with other mods. I have almost finished one for Modular Fuel Tanks and it will be available in the next release. I also saw that Procedural Parts provides a MM config file for my mod, and I hope to make sure it is compatible with the next release. I am pretty sure ObsessedWithKSP is on the right track: What version do you have installed? Where did you download it from? Where is the TacLifeSupport.dll file located? And why won't people upload log files (to Pastebin, Dropbox, whatever)? The mod keeps track of the last time the ship was loaded (i.e. within 2.4 km of the active vessel). The next time the ship is loaded, it calculates how much resources would have been consumed and/or recycled and it catches up over several update frames. The monitoring window is not aware of recyclers on the ship and so its countdown does not reflect the extra time the resources will last*. The way I do it is: I make sure that my Water and Oxygen will last at least as long as the Food, then I only worry when the Food starts getting low. The included recyclers extend Water and Oxygen by 10x. * This will not change in the near future because I want to allow others to make recycler parts and I do not know a good way to allow discovering and querying to find the recycling efficiencies.

There is potential for bad things to happen if you change my mod's (TACLS's) settings through a MM config file, and those changes would be written out the next time it saves so it would not leave the "actual files untouched." The file in question, LifeSupport.cfg, has some user preferences* saved with the consumption rates but I would not worry about those. Just ship your mod with a drop in settings file. And include instructions to overwrite the existing file when installing your mod, and delete your file (leaving no file) when uninstalling your mod to return to default values. Please post any responses in my thread so that I am sure to see them. P.S. * I am going to separate those user preferences into another file to keep them away from consumption rates, since they change under different circumstances. And, I am moving to "1 unit = 1 liter" in the next release. See my math: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aioc9ek3XAvwdGNsRlh3OVhlbTFBR3M4RW0zLUNTRFE&usp=sharing

The LifeSupportModule does not currently do anything* but it will in a future release. Do not worry about it for now. And when the time comes, I will make sure that it gets added automatically as needed, either through code or ModuleManager configs. * It actually does do one small thing currently: it is added to supply container parts as a work-around to http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/1989

I wanted a nose cone that doubled as a heatshield so I made the following edits to proceduralHeatshield: @PART[proceduralHeatshield] { @MODULE[ProceduralPart] { @aspectMin = 1.5 !lengthMax = 0 !allowCurveTweaking = 0 } @MODULE[TankContentSwitcher] { @TANK_TYPE_OPTION { @dryDensity = 0.12 } } } It mostly works. The mass is slightly higher than a proceduralNoseCone, and the amount of ablative shielding is obscene but can be adjusted because of tweakables. My biggest problem is that my giant SRB pushes my rocket too fast so most of my ablative shielding burned off during launch . Note that the mass displayed for the nose cone is incorrect. It actually weights around 1.8t including the 1025 units of shielding.

KSP seems to be modifying the configs, possibly in the part loader, and it deletes a whole bunch of fields so they are no longer accessible. I have now hacked my export method into Module Manager as an alternative solution. I may have to ask that you incorporate my changes into the main MM build unless Squad fixes the part loader. I do not see another way to get it to work . New version: Code: https://github.com/taraniselsu/ModuleManager Download: https://github.com/taraniselsu/ModuleManager/releases/tag/AddedCFGExport Warning: do not use this version unless you know what you are doing. The maintainers of ModuleManager will not support this build in any way.

Yes, everything but the settings window is disabled when TAC is disabled for the save. I will look at what consequences or weirdness might exist if I don't disable the Build Aid. As a temporary workaround, you can enable the mod when building ships and then disable it when launching. Just don't spend much time in the Space Center or Tracking Station scenes (including the astronaut complex and R&D building). Time is stopped in the editors (VAB & spaceplane hanger) so you can take all the time you need in there. Thank you for a good description of the problem. Would you upload a log file somewhere that I can see it? Along with a list of mods? I have not run into that problem myself, and I have done a lot of testing with reverting to the launch pad and the VAB. I need more information before I can do anything.

Where is your log file? Please post it somewhere that I can see it. And when does it crash? Immediately? When launching? After playing for a while? Please, please, please don't just post "it doesn't work". How am I supposed to do anything with that?

I thought it would be really helpful. Others have brought up the idea also. And I noticed that no-one had done it yet, so here it is: a Part CFG Logger. It exports the configs for every part (and resource and more) to files in your {KSP}/_CfgOutput directory. That's it. Nothing more. But I think it will be extremely useful when trying to get Module Manager files right. That's right, it exports the configs after MM patches are applied. It turned out to be really, really simple. Code: https://github.com/taraniselsu/TacPartCfgLogger Download: https://github.com/taraniselsu/TacPartCfgLogger/releases Did not work as well as I wanted. See this post for another solution. I will make a thread for it if there is enough interest.

Now available on Curse: http://www.curse.com/ksp-mods/kerbal/221161-tac-self-destruct

Now available on Curse: http://www.curse.com/ksp-mods/kerbal/221162-tac-part-lister

Now available on Curse: http://www.curse.com/ksp-mods/kerbal/221022-tac-life-support (Actually, it was 10 days ago )