Death Engineering

Okay, interesting mechanic. Won't that make it difficult to manage 'supplies' on craft with supplies on board intended for later in the mission? ex. Separate lander should have its supplies 'off' until landing, yes? Sure, one could move resources around but then if there are radial or otherwise symmetrical cans, getting balance right could be a problem.

Hi @RoverDude.. impressive bunch of updates lately. kudos! (and no small task to catch up on the threads). I've played with the latest 0.3.5.0 USI-LS and this might be on purpose, but I'm not able to disable 'supplies' resource in flight (or even on the pad). Disabling in VAB only has them instantly enabled. I slapped two 100's and a 500 on the top of the Kerbal X and tested in otherwise clean KSP. By design? additional.. while I type this I see there is now consumption on the pad as well.

What's the bonus if it's encoded in rope core memory?

@The Space Core I hope this helps: May I recommend using CKAN to install/manage your mods? Read about it and get it here. It is easy to launch CKAN and point it at the specific save game you are working on, just remember to note the directory path of your install (in my case above ..\SteamApps\common\Kerbal Space Program - DERP). Send me a private message if getting it to work doesn't come together.

Just two Duna albums from my last mission there because I can't delete the post made in error; :\

I changed the URL in the post for all USI mods to point at the Giyhub USI catalog. Makes more sense I hope. When I get off work tonite I'll edit the OP to include the badge. cheers!

Right on! I noticed the 'gold ring' added while I was working today lol. Thanks! edit: USI links point to the Github edit2: Adding the Badge...coming soon!

Not sure how Professional Bull Riding will fit into the KSP niche.

Great to see your post first on the thread! Again, thanks for your mods. The latest update looks great, too! Glad to hear about your new project! Playing without LS just isn't fun for me - immersion-breaking in its absence, I guess. Looking forward to seeing it! Interested? Y E S ! A badge would be really great.. and I'm not the one to do it, hehe. Thanks for the offer! Oh, yes and MJ is allowed, and probably should be 'Recommended' but I've been playing so long I have MJ in my head. LMK if you have any questions, comments or suggestions to tweak the challenge.

The "Duna Extended Research Program (DERP)" Objective: Develop a space program in a sandbox game (using some specific mods) to explore Duna and Ike. Scoring is based on: number of kerbals who venture to Duna and Ike, Science achievements, mission safety, and progress in the space program at certain "Prestige" points in your program. The overall cost of the program also factors in, so building with reuse/recycle in mind will benefit greatly. In general, considerations for this challenge are: development/testing costs, launch pad expansion cost, rocket and launch pad prep time, life support needs, and building in redundancy/safety as losing Kerbals is going to cost your score dearly. There is also a time-limit: all missions must be launched or rolling-out before Year 6, Day 1. Scoring for the challenge is over on Year 8, Day 200 (Kerbin-day definition). Any Kerbals not recovered (or on a Kerbin-return trajectory) and any points not yet scored by that date are lost. This is a really good plug for Kerbal Alarm Clock. (new) "Duna Domination" - Now that you're on Duna, why not stay awhile? : This separate score rewards not just 'getting there', but also time spent on Duna's surface. Time on Ike is not considered. Rounding down, simply add up how many days each kerbal is on Duna's surface. To include 'Duna Domination' scoring with your entry, keep track of how many Kerbal-days you have crews on Duna. eg: 3 kerbals on Duna for 100 days each = 300 kerbal days. This new scoring metric does not change existing scores and including it with new or existing challenge attempts is optional. Mods: Required: Kerbal Construction Time Stage Recovery and/or Flight Manager for Reusable Stages Either (only one): USI Life Support TAC Life Support Interstellar Flight Inc. Kerbalism ..others? Recommended: Kerbal Alarm Clock (integrates nicely with KCT and includes launch/return window planning) USI Survivablity USI Kolonization Systems (MKS/OKS) USI Karibou Expedition Rover Other mods are permitted provided they do not provide an unbalanced advantage, EXCEPT HyperEdit. As the general functionality of HyperEdit (testing crafts without building them) is incorporated into Kerbal Construction Time as cost-balanced 'simulations', HyperEdit is not permitted. "Kerbal Construction Time": When starting your challenge, you must either use the DERP config file or use the values for KCT listed below for the KCT 'Settings'. You will be given 10 points which may be allocated to either VAB or SPH, with the points determining the overall time to build or edit your spacecraft. The points can be focused or can be split, but once these points are allocated, no further changes to the point spread may be made. Points can also be allocated to multiple build 'threads' to allow simultaneous building of craft. It is highly recommended to play with these a bit on a separate save game to get a feel for how you want to allocate them. The KCT configs are going to require long build-times for first edition craft, but subsequent craft based on the same design will take much less time to build. For example, the Dynawing stock shuttle is going to take 158 days to build the first one (with focus on VAB), but the next one off the line will only take 124 days to complete. As always, there are diminishing returns, with the Dynawing "leveling off" at around 54 days to complete after building 10 of them. You may also take advantage of KCT's "rush" feature which will accelerate a build at an expense (keep track of any rush 'penalties' as part of your space program's total cost). The building and testing phase of your space program with KCT may require some adjustments to your regular play in order to compensate for build times and launch pad rollout times. It will be important to factor in lauchpad "rollout" times with larger craft. With the Dynawing, launchpad prep time is 32 days. While testing does not require the launchpad prep time, there is a small fee to run a simulation. The latest version of KCT also introduced multiple launch pads. Using this feature is completely permitted for this challenge and running two or three launch pads as launch windows approach will likely be critical. However, each extra launch pad will cost funds to build. If playing 'Sandbox' mode, you will need to keep track of these expenses and factor them into your 'Cost' score. As KCT and Stage Recovery will inherently add multiple ways to play this challenge, everyone will approach it differently. One way to play would be to develop a low and a heavy payload lifter early on and queue up as many as will be needed for the challenge then add payloads as each lifter is ready to launch. Another way might be to use a SSTO with moderate payload ability and use orbital construction to maximum benefit. It is highly recommended to use the KCT GUI for all VAB/SPH/Launch pad functions and allow KCT to override the normal KSC buttons. This will give you the best flexibility for launch pad management and most consistent play. On that point, pay attention to when you use the "Recover Active Vessel" function of KCT after the launch has occurred: when this is used, you are literally recovering the active craft as-is into your inventory. For space planes, this will likely make sense as all you need to do is refuel the tanks and you're good to go. However, with traditional "capsule" style spacecraft, using the stock "Recover Vessel" button will still add the recovered parts to your inventory, retaining the build time benefits. Preset: https://www.dropbox.com/s/d4jcvgfhtd22hjk/DERP.cfg Place Into: ..\GameData\KerbalConstructionTime\KCT_Presets Settings (if you don't want to download the preset): Overall Multiplier: 7 Build Effect: 5 Inventory Effect: 100 Reconditioning Effect: 3456 Max. Reconditioning: 345600 Rollout-Reconditioning Split: Slider to 100% Rollout Starting Upgrades 10,10,10 "Stage Recovery": This mod will recover your discarded stages, whenever possible, back on Kerbin after they are staged away during launch. It will attempt to use either propulsive or chute recovery and will let you know details of each recovery attempt. It is critical to pay attention to the Stage Recovery messages during launch as costs of the recovered stage(s) will factor into your score. Using a probe core or a piloted module will ensure the recovery will be successful if possible and Stage Recovery details after each launch will reveal landing speeds and fuel consumption where applicable to assist with fine-tuning. "Flight Manager for Reusable Stages": Optionally, this mod can be installed to allow you to actually pilot your dropped stages back to Kerbin's surface. Using save-game "forks" which create a snapshot of the moment a stage is dropped, you can continue to fly the main craft into space and then once safely in orbit you can then go back in time to the booster stage and pilot it back down. Once recovered, the save states are merged and you can then resume flying the spacecraft you left in orbit. This mod is best used with planes or Falcon 9 style powered recovery. Caution: It has been noted that using FMRS with KCT's simulations can cause problem. Save often and test test test. Important note on Recovery: Only hardware which is reused for another launch or mission can be counted. The funds to build the hardware, once spent, cannot be recovered through some kind of sale or auction. Recovery is intended to offset or reduce the costs of building new hardware. If a stage is recovered and not used again for another mission (a booster stage or space plane), that hardware is chopped up and used as land fill. Who would do such a thing? Only Canadians.. It will be to your advantage to make your boosters and anything else you plan to recovery reasonably modular or similar in nature as trying to track reuse/costs of individual parts would be a challenge within a challenge. Life Support: Use of a currently supported Life Support mod(s) is required for this challenge. While the game limitations of 'life support' from any mod could be emulated in stock, don't. Life support mods and CKAN make setting up this challenge easy and will ultimately make the challenge more rewarding. Wherever not already enabled, Life Support must be set to "lethal". Over-building, testing, safety margins and backup plans will be rewarded in challenge 'Survivability' scoring. The latest version of USI-LS incorporates habitation/fatigue elements. To that end, please detail your choice of LS mod(s) and versions used. Obviously, each Life Support mod will have different balance effects (effectively, mass). Entries which use similar LS mods, and versions of those mods, will be scored together. Scoring: Definitions: SCIENCE LAB: A space station with any stock or mod "Science Laboratory", can generate power, has an antenna and docking port and capable of supporting at least 4 Kerbals. The station must have at least one Scientist on board. KERBAL HAB: A surface base with any stock or mod "Science Laboratory", can generate power, has an antenna and must be capable of supporting at least 6 Kerbals. The base must have at least one Scientist on board. SHUTTLE: Autonomous-capable reusable lander that can land and return to orbit with at least 6 Kerbals. Cost: Cumulative cost of your space program. In the recommended 'Sandbox' mode, this will be up to you to keep track of. Costs will include all costs for simulating, building and launching every mission. Any launch pads purchased with KCT also must be included in your Cost score. Any stages recovered with Stage Recovery can be counted as credits to your overall cost (you will need to watch for the SR messages to track the stage recovery gains). Remember, all missions must be launched or rolling out to the launch pad by Year 6, Day 1. Prestige: +2 At least two Kerbals are landed on Duna before Year 2, day 40. +1 At least one Kerbal is landed on Ike before Year 2, day 40. +3 All Kerbals landed on Ike and Duna before Year 2, day 40 are returned safely to Kerbin before Year 4, day 80. +2 Orbiting SCIENCE LAB around Duna before Year 2, day 170. +2 Orbiting SCIENCE LAB around Ike before Year 2, day 170. +2 for each KERBAL HAB on Duna *must be in unique Biomes max 5* +2 for each KERBAL HAB on Ike *must be in unique Biomes max 5* +1 Plant a flag on Duna anywhere > 7000m +1 Plant a flag on Ike anywhere > 10000m Science: Any points not scored by the challenge end date of Year 8, Day 200 are lost. Duna: +5 Return Atmosphere Science from at least 4 of Duna's Biomes +2 Return any surface sample from Duna or +5 Return surface samples from 3 of Duna's Biomes or +10 Return surface samples from all 5 Biomes to Kerbin Ike: +2 Return any surface sample from Ike or +5 Return surface samples from 3 of Ike's Biomes or +10 Return surface samples from 5 of Ike's Biomes to Kerbin Survivability: This is a "high-stakes" challenge: a Life Support mod with "lethality" enabled is a requirement. You also need to bring home your kerbalnauts! Any Kerbal not recovered on Kerbin (or in a reasonably reliable Kerbin return trajectory) by the challenge end date of Year 8, Day 200 is considered "lost". All Kerbals must be eventually recovered safely or counted as 'lost'. +1 For every Kerbal who enters Duna orbit +3 For every Kerbal who lands on Duna +3 For every Kerbal who lands on Ike Lose One Kerbal: -3 Lose 2-3 Kerbals: -8 Lose 4-5 Kerbals: -20 Lose 6 or more: -5 each lost Kerbal +3 Have a SHUTTLE orbiting Duna +3 Have a SHUTTLE orbiting Ike Score: Challenge Points = Prestige + Science + Survivability Final Score (lower is better) = Total Cost Challenge Points SQRT(2) or 1.414 100 (new) Duna Domination Score = Final Score * Kerbal Days on Duna Useful Information: Optimum Kerbin -> Duna transfers: First window: Departure: Year 1, day 231 Arrival: Year 2, day 56 Second window: Departure: Year 3, day 296 Arrival: Year 4, day 124 Third window: Departure: Year 5, day 364 Arrival: Year 6, day 266 Optimum Duna -> Kerbin transfers First window: Departure: Year 1, day 155 Arrival: Year 2, day 7 Second window: Departure: Year 3, day 239 Arrival: Year 4, day 80 Third window: Departure: Year 5, day 296 Arrival: Year 6, day 160 Launch Window Planner: Great for Δv/ life support planning.(Mmmm, Porkchops..) Kerbal Maps: Includes relief maps About this challenge: Q: "Why a time limit on launching and recovery?" A: Kerbals have lost interest in the space program by Year 6, Day 1 and have turned the launch pad(s) into a Theme Park, but Mission Control is still running a skeleton crew until Year 8, Day 200. Q: "Why do Kerbals who are not in a Kerbin return trajectory count as 'lost'?" A: Kerbals need the "geniuses" at KSC to get back home. When Mission Control is closed down on Year 8, Day 200, they conveniently forget about helping to get their kerbal brethren back and wander over to the Theme Park. Q: "Why can't I count recovered hardware that doesn't get reused?" A: If the recovered hardware isn't going to be launched or reused, due to pressure from the new Konservative government, the hardware is unceremoniously chopped into little bits and used as landfill for the Theme Park. (see Avro Arrow "Black Friday") Please note in your submission the way you played the challenge and how you tracked your progress. Those who want to play in 'Career' / 'Science' mode, can do so. However, playing in sandbox is probably the most logical way to complete this challenge. Since you will need to track all the science and costs on your own, I suggest something like Google docs. Yes, one could edit the 'persistent.sfs' file and hack in SCIENCE and funds, but you'd also have to keep track of the massive number of funds gained as a result of the 'Worlds First' records. In my opinion, it is just easier to track the Science and funds outside of KSP. I'm reasonably sure that it wouldn't make sense for the challenge to send a ridiculous number of Kerbals to Duna and land them in lawn-chairs and quickly bring them back again just for the +3 for each landed Kerbal. Considering the life support needs for the journey there and back and costs of launching it all, I think using a sensible number of kerbals is the key. Regarding mods, I am not aware of any that give a specific advantage to this challenge. At this time, there are no restrictions other than HyperEdit. There is the potential to do this challenge quick and easy or as complex as you want, so feel free to submit more than one entry. In-situ resource harvesting is also permitted (and encouraged). The timing of this challenge's release is coinciding with new releases of KCT, USI Life Support and soon a new KSP. This may affect scoring or play-ability along the way. Most drastically, USI LS and how it works with MKS-Lite/MKS/OKS is about to have a MAJOR revision which now includes crew "fatigue" and base/station maintenance. You may want to plan for mod updates or freeze your KSP version and play it out as-is. All submissions should note any relevant versions used and plan for mod updates accordingly. This challenge got its inspiration from the popular and one time Thread of the Month Duna Permanent Outpost Mission Architecture Challenge from @sturmstiger. Although the original was all about building a permanent/sustainable presence on Duna and this one is more about making a thorough exploration of Duna, I'm hoping that with the changes in stock and easy to implement mods, this challenge encapsulates the flavor for long-term mission goals with complex variables which came from that original challenge. Big thanks to KCT/SR creator @magico13 for building the game mechanic that makes this challenge work. Change log since first post: - Science points not returned by challenge end date only score 1/2 points - Added 1 day to early landing prestige date - Increased KCT points from 8 to 10 - Changed challenge end date to Year 8, Day 200 - Added rule all missions must be constructed/rolling out by Year 6, Day 1. - Changed 'Survivability' to Kerbals who enter Duna orbit (was Duna SOI) - Added FMRS to mod list as an optional component for stage recovery - Specified that recovered parts cannot be sold/they only offset costs of building new hardware - Added new scoring metric 'Duna Domination' - Added "Kerbalism" to Life Support options The DERP'ed: Jasonden - 1197 USI-LS Pre- 0.3.5.0 Jasonden - 2111 USI-LS Pre- 0.3.5.0 Death Engineering - 5424.7 USI-LS Pre- 0.3.5.0 DBowman - 804.478 TAC-LS Enginerdy - 2166 TAC-LS Official badge: http://i.imgur.com/ihYeAUW.jpg creds @The Space Core

5/10 pretty sure you arrested me.

This bug has been present since we saw service bays so I'm a little surprised it lives, but the only way I know to fix is make sure chutes/RCS thrusters are at least two linear parts away from the service bays.

As @Hotaru mentioned, service bay occlusion extends to parts not attached or "stowed" (bug). It may look weird, but you can also just open the service bay and they'll enable. Same for chutes that complain they can't deploy while stowed.

I did the same and definitely got more FPS but getting memory issues now (when never had problem before). Also removed the reflection plugin. Using DX11. I'll keep using these configs and tolerate the crashing... it's worth it.

Hmm.. What I've observed in sandbox with recovered parts is that when using recovered parts the build time changes, but the vehicle cost does not seem to change. While this is irrelevant in sandbox by the nature of sandbox, it would be interesting to know the reflected cost using recovered parts as well as build time. ediot: I was doing something else entirely, sorry. (messing with KCT recovered craft and editing).

I do have just ONE more question.. (for now ) In sandbox mode, I'm guessing the inventory parts are completely tracked as they are in career mode since I see them in inventory and they affect build times. Would you consider adding an option to toggle the cost-effect of using the parts in inventory while in sandbox?

I can state from testing that USI-LS in it's current form and KCT in it's previous form (just prior to multiple launch pads) does not refill the LS tanks I had unlocked at the time (just the wee radial ones). Thanks for the reply! edit

Hey this mod is great @magico13! In particular, I like how the launch pad reconditioning/rollout plays into the game - looking forward to trying out the latest version. I had a few questions: Have you considered including Life Support parts in the list of things that get refilled when a craft is recovered through your GUI and tanks-filled in the VAB? When a stage is recovered using Stage Recovery mod, is it treated like a KSP-recover or a KCT-recover? Is there any progression in sandbox mode for build points or is KCT intended to use the starting (default 45) value throughout the sandbox play? Does sandbox support re-allocating the points? 'Grats on the new release to this fascinating mod. cd/

Depending on the CoM/control authority, you may also find adjusting the flight profile from around 10km will take advantage of lifting body effect to level out a little. I just did two tests where I just "left it" and the other where I had aggressively tried to pitch-up and was able to open the chutes over 2km higher that way. Same re-entry quickloaded at 10km and pic capped as soon as the chute warning went from 'yellow' to 'grey'. It was 4.4Km higher when I could safely open chutes. Doing nothing: http://i.imgur.com/snYLU9Yl.png Trying hard http://i.imgur.com/5YF66Ucl.png

I don't even have the contract, and I want to do that mission!

Maybe already covered, but yeah stock career is a little flat. However, with the right set of mods Career is much more challenging and entertaining. Adding parts from Ven's Stock Part Revamp and Station Science, and the contracts from Tourism Plus and Kerbin Space Station, encourage a reasonably paced, incrementally more challenging game with rewards for building with re-use in mind. Adding in RoverDude's USI Life Support also adds a little realism to the challenge without making missions just all about the life support. Those mods, plus Stockalike Station Expansion, is how I play lately and the career I just wrapped up was the most enjoyable I've had in KSP. I especially enjoyed all the time spent at Jool performing Quark science/tourism combo missions. The utterly massive parts in Station Science along with the challenges of life-support made for some real white-knuckle moments.

I'd be happy if the "stowed" message could be solved for chutes that aren't even stowed.. just NEAR a storage bay. Looks goofy hurtling though the plasma on re-entry with the bay open.

This is working brilliantly for me. Thanks for your amazing work, @blackrack ! (pretend there's a great pic of a foggy Duna valley) http://i.imgur.com/W0yiL1kl.png

I'm not wearing my glasses, but that looks like the fuel lines are leading to adjacent boosters in like a non-symmetrical asparagus.

I run a modest list of mods but have resolved the memory issue/crashing with the -force-opengl switch on the shortcut. Stock KSP went from about 1.5GB to just over 1.0GB. To preserve graphic quality, I had to override KSP.EXE in the video driver to have anti-aliasing (looked awful without that). My Lenovo is very similar to your Lenovo.