TeeGee

Yeah I cut the fuel down to 144 units, MORE than enough to make orbit of 100km/100km with or without payload. I always cringe when I see KSO launches and see people burning the SSME AND OMS engines to circularize... that's NOT the way to maximize fuel for an ascent profile in the KSO. Here is my ascent profile: 1) Launch normal until 7km, start turning to 45 degrees. 2) Seperate LBE and continue heading 3) When apoapsis hits 35 degress, start turning towards 10 degrees 4) When you see apoapsis of 50 km, you should be at or nearing 0 degree pitch. 5) Burn until apoapsis is whatever you desired. 6) MECO and coast. 7) RCS ON, SAS OFF and roll to have tank below you. 8) When reach Apoapsis, reactivate engines until Periapsis = approx 20km or more but NOT over 70km. 9) Shut off SSME, detach tank, turn on OMS and circularize. 98% of your orbit should be done by the SSME's. If you do this correctly, you don't need to carry lots of fuel onboard the orbiter to make orbit changes etc.

Hi again everyone, just FYI the KSO total cost that I built MINUS payload = 47350 kerbal dollars. Since its cargo hold can only carry 1 unit of station modules per launch, I am going to see if it truly is cost effective to launch a disposable rocket vs the KSO and at what point the 2 costs equilibrate and surpass each other.

I went into the SPH and build another shuttle and tested its COM vs COL in both full and empty fuel configs, and also took a look at having 2 vs 1 tailfin, it really doesn't make that much of a difference in terms of COM position in both full and dry mass. When I reentered atmo, I was sitting pretty at 10 degrees inclination and then tried to adjust the entry angle to become 20 and the whole thing just flipped on me. If it was due to the fact I didn't use the tail fins as partial aerelons, then that's just sad. Just out of curiosity, does the real shuttle dump its OMS fuel before reentry? I know it dumps its nose RCS monoprop because they don't want the fuel the ignite on reentry, but what about the OMS pod fuels..?

KSO tips: 1) I use only 1 tailfin, the other is just a waste of weight. 2) Is there no way to dump fuel before reentry? I ask because whenever I reenter atmo, my orbiter keeps flipping when I make small attitude adjustments, it's because the COM is behind the COL. If I dump fuel, the 2 are on top of each other leading to much more manageable control. I did this with fuel left over from the orange, I just let it go so that it would reenter the atmosphere before doing my OMS burn. It may seem like a simple mission, buy during reentry my orbiter started tumbling and I had to take control with RCS. I had WAAAY too much fuel, but had no way of dumping it before reentry. 2 options: 1) Find a mod that dumps fuel I didn't need. 2) take up LESS fuel.

They all go into orbit in 1 stage and have 90% of their rocket fuel available for orbital maneuvers and docking. I can provide pictures if you want.

Updated:

It's been a while since I've posted anything: Note* These craft have changed slightly since these pics. All are stock, no part clipping, all are balanced full and dry mass to fly well (will not flip when empty). I have a whole slew of other SSTO's that I've built since my Delta V craft. I can post them if you guys want to see them as well.

Ok. Ummm... how much does the KSO launch system cost with fake kerbal money? Example: Cockpit = X$ Left wing = X$ Boosters = X$ etc. Add all of them together and you get...?

I am pretty sure that each part in the VAB has a COST value attached to it.. Just add that up (I don't use KSO anymore so I can't confirm this myself) and compare it to a rocket with equal lifting capability. When an economic system is put into place in KSP, I think the parts should be revalued to reflect the ridiculous cost of making a space shuttle vs using disposable rockets.

Has anyone managed to compare the cost of the KSO vs other rocket builds? Is it worth it making and using and at what point in its service time does the vessel pay itself off?

Interesting. Have you been able to make it to Minmus or the Mun and get back to KSC?

Has anyone ever made it to another planetary body like Mun or further with this craft yet?

Awesome. Ya see, FERRAM is teaching me things about aerodynamics. Before, I had built a heavy lift VSSTO (vertical ssto) launcher that pushed 65 tons into orbit with only turbojets. I had an ascent profile similar to that and was able to push stupid amounts of weight and have precise control over everything with only reaction wheels... it felt sooo cheap and gimmicky and rendered the game useless after that. BTW that is the kind of game STOCK KSP is..if u know how to manipulate it, you can build the most ridiculous things that shouldn't fly, and achieve ANYTHING without limitation. Reality has more obstacles than just thrust, delta v and reaction wheels. I wanted a challenge that hones my design expertise and build a plausible craft that could work on some level here in reality. If this mod didn't exist, I never would have understood the ascent profiles of real rockets and the reason they are done that way. The only thing I need to perfect is how to read the FERRAM charts when I am designing a craft, I don't know what I need to do to get all of those values in the green.

So then I shouldn't be going full throttle at launch? Or should I use just enough engine power for a >1 thrust to weight ratio?

Yeah I noticed that with my SSTO. She reached 30km and I was still accelerating even with my engines off, I hit an apoapsis of 200km at 30km without anymore acceleration and she just kept going until a final apoapsis of 250kmish was made.

So I start my gravity turn at lower velocity which is usually maxed out at around 0.5km. Wow, does that mean my rockets will require more delta v to reach orbit due to the prolonged time it is in thicker atmosphere (drag)?

No it's not wobbling, it's shaking my craft when I reach higher speeds at low altitudes. It for example, I launch my SSTO (not space shuttle) and the thing starts rolling and shaking when I keep SAS activated and start accelerating. Once I hit thinner air, that stops. The shaking only happens with SAS activated and when I am at low altitudes trying to pick up velocity. ALSO, when I build a rocket, I am having trouble yawing the craft for my gravity turn at 10km... I have a feeling that doing my gravity turn that late at such a high speed is not the right idea, is there a tutorial of when to initiate a gravity turn with rockets and FAR? My crafts are stable, they just don't turn as well as stock KSP did. Any design tips?

Hey everyone I need some help. Is there any tutorials to help us redesign our aircraft and spacecraft in ferram? My previous SSTO that I designed is actually amazing in FAR but I am having issues with shaking during lower altitude ascent and descent. How can I design my craft to avoid having such violent shakes?

You do realize how LONG this game has been alpha right? The modding community is what's keeping this game going. We come up with more parts and features everyday than squad comes up with every year.

Hahah! I find this game to be horribly optimized. I have 8 GB of RAM, run ONLY vanilla KSP and the game screws up all the time, everyday, unless I have this mod installed. It really is pathetic that the community has to fix what the developers won't.

PERFECT! THIS is exactly what I've been doing, except I staged the boosters separately once in space. Would you mind posting a .craft file, this is amazing!

Astounding! I've built only 2 of those ssto to laythe craft, but not one that can carry CARGO! PS: The design for the craft at the end of your video (after you landed) looks similar to mine. Other than that, phenomenal job and I look forward to what you can come up with next! (Duna ssto with cargo??)

The hardest part about SSTO's is learning how to fly them, not in how to construct one. I've built 4 part SSTO's the get to and from orbit because I know how to fly them Here is the trick: 1) Get out of the thick atmosphere ASAP. Climb as fast as you can until you reach 10km. Now you can start accelerating horizontally. 2) After you've left the thick atmo, look at your vertical speed indicator and keep the needle next to 100m/s. DO NOT GO OVER THIS VERTICAL SPEED! Vertical speed = rate of climb. Too fast = bad because too high = less air to breathe for you engines = burnout = no thrust = no orbit. 3) Keep the vertical speed over 0m/s (obviously). If you go under that value, it means you've reached your apoapsis and are on your way back DOWN... that's bad. I NEVER go under 30ish m/s vertical speed. 4) 4 Ramjet intakes/1 turbofan engine. 5) Keep your planes weight DOWN. If you are ONLY going into orbit, don't take 10,000 units of fuel on you. 6) Oxidizer weighs a TON. Keep this number as low as possible. 7) Spaceplanes look cool but are not efficient, weight wise. Wings add unnecessary weight because once you get into space, they are USELESS. Same goes with turbofan engines. But hey, if you guys want to build spaceplanes, go right ahead. I've been building SSTO planes since I got into this game, mastered it, then started using KSP air breathing engines differently. 8) Keep you air breathers ON as long as possible. So as you reach 32 km, that is the ONLY time you can reach orbital velocity cuz the air is thin enough up there. To keep your engines on, throttle DOWN as you get higher and higher. Remember RULE #1: GET OUT OF THE THICK ATMOSPHERE SOON and KEEP YOUR VERTICAL SPEED AROUND 100m/s. Do that an you'll make orbit every time.