MedievalNerd

Howdy all! So I finally finished adding the Celestial Science Body Parameters to RSS. Well, Nathan made it possible, I just put in the numbers. Sadly, the stock handling of science will make it a bit harder to have a "Flying high/low" for non atmospheric bodies. But! I already know how I'm going to handle it, so no worries. We'll get near/far approach for those for sure. One caveat, it'll only work with my custom experiments since stock handling is stubborn. Here are the altitudes, in meters, for each body and which situation starts at what altitude. (Flying low isn't listed but it's obviously below the Flying High treshold. ) Also! Since I'm going to be making having to manually add these new situations, I've been talking with Nathan and I think I'll actually do LEO, MEO & HEO for Kerbin(earth)! Not that's it's anything ground breaking but it'll be nice to replicate experiments in those new situations. FYI, MEO cutoff is Geosynch altitude, so for now LEO & MEO and merged as SpaceLow. Now off to test this stuff to see if it go implemented right, then back to finishes off WAC & V2 engines, followed by the new experiment overhaul. (Since the early probes are nearly all done) Stay tuned!

That's a very weird issue, please follow the installation instructions carefully. Don't download any mod that is already inside of the "essential pack". With Milestone 19 I'll be updating all of them. Also adding ECLSS and FAR in it too, probably KJR. Also, GREAT NEWS! The new config node that Nathan added allowed me to fix experiments being out of wack with RSS. IE, issues with Duna FlyingHigh vs SpaceLow/High. I'm also experimenting with adding flyinglow/high to not atmospheric bodies, having a bit of issues though. Since the stock situation detection is hardcoded, I think it's got a atmoflag set to on regardless if you set your experiment to atmospheric requirement false. Going to see about adding a 'non existing' atmosphere to those bodies and see if it does anything funky. :/ Making progress, slow but sure!

Howdy all, Quick update, Nathan's been gracious enough to include some code in RSS to set altitude thresholds manually. We went over some figures last week, and i'll be implementing those values and trying them out to see how it goes. If I run into issues with the low/far approach, i'll see if I can't do some funky work around. Once that's setup and proper, on with experiments and finishing up the WAC & V2 engines. As always, thanks for all the feedback. I'm hoping MS19 will have a decent start up base with the new probes, and early manned experiments. Just for those concerned about the progression at this stage, V18 was pretty much a proof of concept of the experiments, how they work, people's reactions, etc. Cheers,

Nice, this would probably be awesome for the Realistic Progression Lite's Custome Experiments! Not sure I'll have time to figure out how to implement just yet, but as soon as I have time I'll give this one a shot. Looks great!

Carefully read the OP on MCE again, all the information is on the first page! There is even a link to how to make your own missions. Reading is power!

It already is, just implement a mission that the goal is to get X of kethane. You can even combine that with a landing goal on kerbin, if you want it to be that the objetive is to return it to kerbin. Make it repeatable. Cheers,

Maybe he does have Majiirs permission, but if not. He could always ask Majiir if he can 'borrow' his models using the Model node, so Kethane remains required for this to work and the 'models' needed are inside the kethane pack only. Just a thought,

Hey Azard, Yeah procedural interstage will be a must (as you can see in my Project Bumper picture a bit higher above). There is maybe a way to get size restrictions based on tech level, but that's further down the road. Ideally you could have procedural interstage unlock +1 size each tech node. That would be awesome. With my new sub 0 tech level engines, it might make the curve more interesting on start. Only have the new V2 & WAC engines will be interesting. It's taking a while for V19 but I think it'll be worth it! Hang in there everyone,

Those tracks are awesome! Love the smallest ones for rovers, glad to see it's being kept alive. Cheers,

@all MS19 will most likely have integrated tech nodes linked to MFT! So you won't be able to set your engines higher than the related tech line. (IE, liquid engines / solid rocket boosters) Yup, it's that tiny. From what I understand it was meant to be the first satellite into space, but the Russians beat the Americans with Sputnik I, and Explorer I ended up launching before vanguard. For Project Bumper I made a resized skipper for the WAC engine. So I'll be including a 0.3M engine in MS 19! I'm asking Frizzank if I can make a clone of his redstone to make a V2 1.5M core for the first stage! See below for what it looks like using the current 2M C2 engine. It's about 18 Meters tall in total. I'm thinking of making 2 "Bumper cores", one atmospheric, the other low sub orbital. Then it'll be sputnik I, II, Explorer I and Vanguard with low orbital experiments. Ahh, ok I see what you mean. Instead of repeated experiments, there will be different ones per core, and more cores! (As i mentioned above) Not 'all' tanks, but keep the ones you find either stylistic or useful. There are a lot of duplicates/redundancy, do what feels best! I suggest you move them to a temporary folder and if after a while you don't miss them, just delete them. For shuttles, since those are late tech tiers, I haven't decided on what to do exactly with those. There are a lot of mods out there that offer shuttle engines and what not, I'll differ to Nathan for the selection. It needs _tons_ of work! But glad you like this early version. Stay tuned!

My pleasure! I'll include the tree.cfg file for all future releases as well, until we hear back from the great r4m0n. Sorry for all the hassle, and thank you for trying out the tree. For those wondering what's going on at this point, with the threshold values established, i'll use those to guide me in future experiments. Also, once implemented, i'll check out to see if I can implement near/far approach (using the atmospheric flying high/low flag). Been working on probes, here is the latest look at their awesomeness. Be warned, that I am not a modeler. So these are simply resized stock or KW Rocketry parts. (Stayputnik 1 is already the correct size)

True but the thing that pains me the most about the description field is you can't insert line breaks. So putting a lot of information can make it very busy. If we could at least have line breaks then it could be interesting.

Here is a link to tree.cfg for V18b https://www.dropbox.com/s/qw7k57s8fpihs29/tree.cfg Cheers,

Yup, I saw that in the vertical tree thread. I'll arrange something similar to for Milestone 19 (provide optional tree.cfg download). But yes, once you F5 the tree, you can definitely quit. And then switch to treeloader and should be fine. Also, more lazy fix, is to rebind F5 quicksave to something else. Yup, that was all fixed in 18b. Also worked with nathan to fix the altitude thresholds for the other bodies (remained stock numbers which made funky things). I want to give him time to finish tech node implementation for MFT, and if possible the RSS additions so we can have proper tresholds. In the meantime I'm findagaling some new probes to help overhaul the probe line. Thanks, I might touch aviation in MS19, but for 20 i'll give it at least an overview with your feedback. Although B9/firespitter integration, that'll might come down the line as well. The units are decided by the game actually. You put the rate and based on what the value is it'll say per second, or per minute, per hour. I don't know if it's possible to force it to remain at a certain value. That's all stock KSP.

Can you give examples as to what is more realistic/better options and/or features?

I'm a bit confused. I set the base/cap science to the same value. So you should be getting 100% of the possible science from the experiment. Are you saying you are able to do the custom experiments more than once? Not sure if you saw my recent post, but probes are getting a massive overhaul with the addition of several historical probes with "simulated" models. I use the terms simulated lightly. With the addition of project bumper, explorer and sputnik 1,2,3 it'll already be a huge relief for early tech levels. The experiments include in MS18 are pretty much more proof's of concepts than final model. As for the number times you can perform an experiment it's based on the base/cap science values. IE, 5 base 10 cap, you can do the experiment twice. I'm still swimming in the deep, but once I come up for air I can explain how the custom experiment plugin works and you could design your own experiments and we could share them to have some sort of crowd sourcing things going on. with experiment packs? Just a thought. As for limiting them being done by the same ship, you could set the experiment to non repeatable, meaning that once the instrument has been used to make an experiment it's 'used' and cannot be done again during that flight. But then someone could slap more than one unit of that experiment, so still not possible to fully limit it technically. Maybe make a plugin for that? IE, have a current/previous vesselId variable and if they match then the experiment can't be triggered? No idea how someone would go about getting that done though. Cheers,

Are you playing with RSS? Pretty sweet contraption you got there btw. Also, very interesting ideas you have for space planes/planes. But right now I'd rather focus on rocketry, probes and the capsule projects. Once that's well in place I'd be willing to entertain having a deeper aviation side of things, or at least expand on it a little.

Wow, looks amazing. It's obvious you put tons of work into this. Congrats on the release.

Should have specified, or you might not have noticed in to the comments. I'm not implementing B9 or Firespitter, or TT Aerospace. One needs to realize how long it takes to move all those pieces into relevant areas. B9 alone is 100+ parts. Also the tree already has a quite impressively high amount of mods, and even using the texture compressor i'm trailing 2.9GB. B9 alone might tip it over, very large pack indeed. I do want to revisit the Space Shuttle angle, right now there is nothing but the MK3 cockpit in that node. Would like to get at eleast one 'real' shuttle there. I think Bobcat has both Buran and US Shuttle? At this stage, I'd be more interested on how the parts of the included mods would go in the "aircraft" section. Oh do the values ever need tweaking still! I cannot disagree there! The issue stems from the lack of custom experiment implementation. Once I got the situation detection sorted for all bodies, I'm going back to sort out the probes. We'll have Project Bumper, Explorer, Sputnik (1,2,3), Pioneer (0-4), Luna (1,2), etc. Technically, the way I originally calculated with the currently implemented custom experiments, you can unlock the first 2 tiers only. Then good luck with the stock science. (It's alpha! Wee! ) Also, I'm also going to try and implement project mercury & Gemini. (So that manned programs can start jumping into the custom experiment circle) Ultimately, he goal is to move away from stock experiments and replace them with historical ones. With specific requirements, it creates basically a mission profile which I personally find very appealing. And yes, tiers are loosely based on what tech would be needed to reach the area and when was the historical mission launched/carried out. But still needs tweaking, with the massive infusion of probes for MS19, that'll be a much more granular experience, with more options. Now this is something I see a lot discussed, about having a 'plane phase' prior to the rocket phase. Now, this all depends on 'how far back' do you really want to go? I'm aiming for the age of rocketry so to speak. (1950's and up). Mining Kerbin biomes surface/flying low for science I find is a bit gamey, and doesn't really fit well with the historical progression of the space program I'm trying to do. Things like getting science from the LP, runway or around Mission Control are comical, but nonsensical when you think about it. I don't want science, especially on kerbin to become a scavenger hunt. I like distinct mission profiles and objectives of the space nature. I do like modular multiwheels, has it been updated yet? As for cost scaling vs available experiments, as I mentioned earlier, it's all going to be fixed once I add more experiments. My experiments will be scaled to the tree, and other tweaks applied as we move forward.

Hehe, where the values are grey they don't count. The problem areas have their characters in red. The red fields means that they aren't being detected. (IE, no atmosphere) For planets without atmosphere it's only space high/low. So anything below the spacehigh treshold is space low. (except for landing) But that 'might change', and I'll try to switch flyinghigh/low to near/far approach for planets without atmosphere. That way you'll still have 2 extra 'layers' even when there isn't atmosphere. Those 2 'new' situations could be great for impact probes, and ladee probes, etc. I'm fixing all those values with Nathan this week most likely.

Please post this on the RSS thread! Sounds like something not super fun! NathanKell will have a look. Best, @ALL So, spent the day checking out the celestial parameters for each body, and see how that all makes sense in relation to RSS, and yeah, we'll need to tweak some values. In some cases we end up with a Atmospheric threshold, that overlaps the lowspace zone, so you jump from FlyingHigh to SpaceHigh. At least now I have all the values mapped out and I'll see what needs to be changed so that it fits all nicely. Then finally back to my ramshackle probes. For those who like numbers: téléchargement de photos

Why thank you Aazard! Just a small update/insight into the tests i've been carrying out. It seems that the stock situation detection has a flaw of some sorts. If you are able to reach orbit velocity above a certain altitude (which is below the actual threshold of InSpaceLow) the goo experiment is able to report InSpaceLow condition. The way the custom experiment checks the situation is solely based on the threshold, so seems that the method Ethernet did is actually more accurate in that specific scenario. Kudos to Ethernet! So without touching the values of Kerbin, it's got a 18,000 meter cutoff for Flying Low, then Flying high is up until 103,500 meters. Space Low is between 103,501 and 249,999 meters. Space High is 250,000 and above. I think it'd be nice to have Space High start above 300km instead, to represent LEO a little better. Totally doable too! I had an idea but I'm not sure we could implement it. But for bodies that don't have atmospheres, excluding landing condition, you are left with only High/Low space. With some trickery, I'm wondering whether I could manage to get High/Low above surface working. This would be great for the early impact probes, and have more precise conditions as to where to take the video/photos data. Now to go do the rest of the bodies. lol Cheers,

This is actually a stock issue, that DRE brings to light. If your vessel explodes while experiencing re-entry effects (the flames) it causes the UI to become responsive if you return to the space center. There is a 'sort of' fix for this, if you revert to VAB, proceed to LP, and then you can go back to the Space Center and all will be well. Very odd issue indeed. EDIT: Took my first weekend off working on the plugin/tech tree. Back online as of this morning. Just to give an idea of what is going on right now, I'm going over the stock detection of situations (FlyingHigh/low,etc.) vs the method I've borrowed from Ethernet. Either we need to get the RSS CelestialParams tweaked, or I have to make some updates to the method. Either way I'll get to the bottom of this. Once this is fully resolved, I'll get back to making probes, and reviewing their tech tree line. Thinking of going by project name, IE: Project Bumper Sputnik (1,2,3) Project Explorer Project Pioneer (0,1,2,3,4) Luna (1,2,3) This should all be doable with Tier 1 Tech (1955+). Where possible and if it doesn't become more of a hassle, I'll itemize their scientific accomplishments separately as their own experiments. For Manned experiments, I'll do Project Mercury & Gemini first. As some of these move to more complex "conditions" might be worth starting to implement a few MCE missions to complement the experience. Although that's a bit of pandora's box, as before using MCE I want to do a cost overhaul/review and that will be, soo damn long. lol, so I think I'll do my best to make it 'work' without it for now. Thanks again for all those participating in this super buggy alpha, suggestions and issues reported are being noted and hopefully addressed in Milestone 19. Cheers,

I sent you a PM yesterday and you never replied. Sent you another one. Cheers,

I suggest dropbox, or if you rather not install anything there is this random thing I use: Use hotlink#1 or #2 in the options. (And pick family safe) http://postimage.org/