MedievalNerd

Sounds good! I can't wait to integrate all this into the realistic overhaul tech tree! I think this mod will right in with it. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/55253-WIP-Full-Realistic-Tech-Tree-Overhaul Just waiting on R4m0n to see if the can do a tweak or two to the TreeEdit, if it's too complicated, then we'll do as best we can to keep the usability up. Thanks for keeping this alive Cilph!

Can we try it out too? The wobble is killing me. Literally.

How early in terms of altitude?

Doh, trippy but unwanted definitely. Did you try with a rocket with infinite fuel? Maybe if you get there 'manually' you won't have that funky stuff going on.

No worries. Posts pour in quickly at times, and there are so many that it's easy to miss one. If you get your hands on the Tech Tree Edit, you can do whatever you want basically. I'm building a quite extensive one, you can see the thread in my sig. Cheers,

I'm not sure if it can help, but TAC Life Support mod is the only mod I've seen that is able to track passive vessels. Maybe there is something in the source that can help, or perhaps Taranis can provide some insight? Just a thought,

Did you try the hotfix version? Apart for the Sub Assembly shenanigans (IE, you must unselect all filters to see the SA tab), it works fine for me! A few rare select parts don't show up for some of my mod, but it's only a few. (maybe 3-4 total) Cheers!

Are you manually adding them, or using TreeEdit? If you are manually adding them, I believe I've said this in the thread in a previous comment. The stuff that is done with TreeLoader is post any changes done to module manager, or part.cfg edits. Meaning, each time a techtree is loaded, it reapplies the TechRequired to all the items. (When the career is created, not everytime to you go to the Tech Screen.) I don't know how the game handles loading the icons within the tech nodes. The only way you can add stuff to the tech tree manually is by not using TreeLoader and running with the stock tree. Try it.

That would be nice, but at some point there are logistical limitations of the usability of it all. Look at how complex the line patterns are. At some point it would require a whole seperate tech tree plugin to be able to customize the connection lines and how they are drawn. I'm able to make the above look 'decent' in the actual KSP tech screen, but it's borderline. Also, its' a mix of conceptual and part oriented. Not all conceptual nodes will unlock parts, in some cases improvements to existing ones. And this is a quasi comprise again to logistical issues of making the nodes fit in a semi coherent way. Originally purple would have been conceptual, and light blue part nodes. Ideally, if you could have 'required' tech nodes which don't have a link drawn would solve the issue. You could have just a series of tech lines next to each other. Obviously you'd need to have some sort of out game diagram to makes sense of it all. But it could work. I have even more than the mods listed above and I pull it off. I don't use them, but there are redux versions of each of those with some considerable memory footprint savings. Also, this is intended to be probe>manned. The tech requirements for capsules is quite massive. Also, space plane integration isn't done in that tree yet. This is probes/rockets. You'll notice science modules aren't included either. It's a WIP, as the title of the post suggest. Hard to say with no tech costs listed, but trust me. It'll be expensive to get to Capsules. Could even shift capsules down to branch off at Tier 2 only. (If you didn't notice, capsules require each of the purple nodes of that tier to be researched in order to be "researchable" itself. If you want to create those parts and post them, I can put them in the tech tree no problem btw. Not "all" of them would be required. But it may leave gaps in some places. IE, manned missions without TAC might make the mission controller missions arbitrary since you wont' need to worry about power consumption that much, and no need for life support supplies.

Nathan's also helping me out with a realism overhaul of the tech tree! I started a thread about it here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/55253-WIP-Full-Realistic-Tech-Tree-Overhaul Different types of tech nodes, with 'upgrades' to existing parts as you research. Going to be crazy!

Howdy everyone, I'm pleased to show you the early workings of the realistic tech tree which I've been working on with Nathan! To be honest, a lot of this would not be possible without him and his more extensive knowledge of rocketry and available plugin functionality. I came to him with my own tech tree concept, and we've basically reviewed the whole thing and came up with this new version. This will most likely require multiple mods in order to make sense and also enable some of the key features of the tech tree. Which are as follows: #1 - Completely separated lines of progress. Engines, Solid Rocket Boosters, each 'category' of parts has their own progression line. With some additional branching in some cases. #2 - New series of Tech nodes: Engine Controls, Electronics, Light Weight Materials, Low Temp Materials, High Temp Materials and Life Support. Some of these will still unlock some parts, but will be linked to incremental bonuses to other part sub groups. (IE, researching high Light Weight Mats, will give a small mass reduction bonus to Ladders, Wheels, Chutes, etc.) #3 - Inclusion of the Modular Fuel Tanks Fuels within the tech tree. (They each have their own tech line of progression with incremental bonuses for each tech level) #4 - Nathan proposed an "experience" tracking system of which fuels/engines were used in past missions and would give slight bonuses each time you use them. (IE, if you want your space program to specialize with a certain engine only, sending multiple launches with them will progressively make them better.) This is still heavy WIP, there is some branching missing and I haven't made it entirely pretty. We spent the whole night working on this, so bear with us. Just to give a heads up here are some of the mods that will be needed for balancing purposes, and filling out the tech tree. (Stock parts provide no post 2.5M engines) (Updated List - 2013/11/11 - Added links and 'authors') #1 - Real Solar System (link) - By NathanKell #2 - FAR (link) - By Ferram #3 - Custom Experiments Plugin - link - By Myself! #4 - Remote Tech 2 (link) - A Must ! #5 - Modular Fuel Tanks (link) - (BALANCED FOR KATO ENGINES!) Originally by ialdabaoth, currently maintained by NathanKell #6 - KW Rocketry (link) - By Kickasskyle #7 - Nova Punch (link) - By Tiberion #8 - TAC Life Support (link)- By TaranisElsu #9 - Mission Controller (Missions Packs & Economy) (link) - By Malkuth & NathanKell #10 - KSP Interstellar (Late Tech) (link) - By Fractal_UK This is a concept version of the Realistic Progression Tech Tree. Feedback and ideas are always welcomed. Thanks to all the hard from Squad & all of the above people in the mentioned mods for making all of this possible. Special thanks to Nathan for braving the late hours of the night with my ramblings. Cheers! UPDATE #3 Here is the monster of all tech trees. Behold: Update #2 Since the initial concept of the Tech tree will require some more advanced plugin work; Make MFT's tech levels dependent on tech nodes, implement performance increases based on tech nodes, etc. I am currently working on a 'lite' version of the above tech tree. Main Features: 1 - Full overhaul of experiments 1.a - "Removed" all stock experiments 1.b - Experiments are now body and situation specific 1.c - Experiments are now tied into probes, and unlocked by tier. 1.d - Implemented "Data resource" which needs to be gathered before an experience can be completed. 1.e - Probes have Data Module to generate the above resource at the cost of EC 1.f - Custom Plugin to make the above work. - By Myself (With special thanks to NathanKell, Ethernet, Majiir & Nerf Herder) 2 - Solar Panel Tweaks 2.a - Weights & Power Generation greatly reduced. (Stock weight/power ratios were good, but pieces too small/heavy) 2.b - Used solarpanel5 to 1 as tiers. Each progressively getting more efficient. 3 - Remote Tech 2 Tweaks 3.a - Much needed antenna range extensions (Real Earth Kerbin!) 3.b - NathanKell's multiple antenna boost. 4 - Custom Plugin to make the above work - By Myself (With special thanks to NathanKell, Here is the latest screenshot I made for Realistic Progression 'Lite' Tech Tree.

Ahh! Nice, I'm doing a complete rehaul of the tech tree with a mission pack tie-in. Going to be Probe to Manned missions first. I have 2 pre-orbital EVAs, one in the desert in and one in the polar caps. Looking forward to your mission pack!

Do you want people to make a Launch Pad EVA? Because without a Goal leading up to orbit (for example) people could just load up a Pod, and go out EVA for 5s on the launch pad to win the mission. Maybe do something like this: # GOAL 1 (Launch/Orbit) OrbitGoal description = Get a rocket in Orbit!? { body = Kerbin minPeA = 70000 } # GOAL 2 (EVA) EVAGoal description = Now that the craft is in orbit. Go out there and party? { minSeconds = TIME(5s) }

Need to add the research cost too. TechRequired = start entryCost = 0 Or whatever cost you desire. (it's not being tracked now anyway)

Did you use revert with that same craft? Using revert can leave previous mission goals completed by other crafts. Or is that fixed now, not sure. I'll let the pros provide more feedback.

There isn't enough branching in the stock tech tree. Things sort of cross over, and nodes are sometimes filled with arbitrary items. I'm working on a new tech tree, which will be from probes to manned, as opposed to the stock tree. And I'll also try to keep separate branches for 'type' of part. I've spent the last 20 some hours just cataloging parts and their relative cost with Mission Controller Extended. Then i'll break it up into tech levels based on performance/usefulness then make a tech tree from scractch. Since they added science payouts for missions with MCE, I'm thinking of doing "mission research nodes" which would have a crazy cost like 101,000 RP, but would be associated to as specific mission to perform in order to 'unlock' that next tier, or wtvr. Anyway, it's taking way longer than I ever thought. I'll get there.

I'm curious is anyone established what is the 'max' potential of science in the whole system as a whole? From what I read in this thread, the app only tracks performed experiments? I'm working on a tech tree so i'm curious as to what's the natural max amount of science available out there.

If you go in the TacLifeSupport/PluginData/TacLifeSupport folder, you'll see LifeSupport.cfg file. Open it up, then you'll see all the data you need to modify what Kebals need to survive. If you put the consumption to zero, perhaps it'll fix your problem. The plugin might still add those resources to your pods automatically though! It's a step.

Very nice! Currently working on a tech tree to go along with my missions. Finally an unmanned to manned space program! Awesome that the docking issue is fixed, you rock!

Very nice! This most likely will have to go in my mission pack.

Is there way to make the crewcount "max" 0? unlike the parts where -1 is ignored, 0 is ignored. I guess you could make manned pod parts to required 0, but i'm wondering if there is another way to force 0 kerbals.

I as curious about the same thing. Anyone?

From what I understand, some of the tech trees seem to nuke the tech tree prior to adding it's own elements, as well as rearranging the nodes. So even if you add lines in .cfg files. Once you do load tree, it might be overiding some of thos changes once the TreeLoader implements the tech tree. I'm having a similar issue where I was tryng to use the Interstellar tech tree while modding the game to move the manned missions to later tech nodes. But for some reason if I'm using the tech tree, it keeps being 'forced back' into the start node. Maybe mechjeb is already part of Interstellar tech tree but at a later node? Also, which version are you using?

Oh I see! With Engineer I simply switch the celestial bodie's gravity to use. And there we go. Although I'm working on a mission pack and perhaps using hyperedit to tag locations might be helpful... I'll give it a spin.

How is using HyperEdit easier than Engineer or MechJeb in the vab? Also, i'd say that it detracts further from "enjoying the game from a stock perspective". But that's just me. I'm not sure the parallel you are trying to make between cheating in an FPS, and having flight/construction data available to you? Maybe you are referring to mods that having engines hat consume no fuel, or perhaps over powered parts. But mods that give you access to data is not cheating. To compare wanting that data with using wallhacks in an FPS is a bit of a stretch. Also, as you said. It depends what you want out of KSP. I tend to be a bit on the nerdy/semi realistic side of things. So blindly launching stuff in my mind is insane. lol. It's a bit like when the maneuver nodes were added, some purists were saying that it was cheating to use it. To each his own.