Moach

just to be sure, 'cause online, you never know...

that's one thing that everybody wishes was fixed... even devs... but it's a unity thing, not in control of the KSP dev. crew in any way. - but it is well known and the inconvenience it creates is widely understood (we all get that when loading mods aplenty) so I think we're all just waiting for the unity developers to figure this one out so that everyone can go and be happy modding our games freely... but nothing can be done 'til then - just sit and wait

slow motion is actually a pretty simple and curiously interesting idea. would be fun to watch your flaming disasters glorious moments running by slowly it'd also make a good tool for figuring out the exact moment of failure on those explosion-reliable designs we all know so well by now technically, it's just a fractional value for time accel, so should be pretty simple to add in code... the UI would need to display that, so that's a little more work still... and then there just might be a thing that none would have thought about but makes the whole idea impossibly difficult to implement, even if at first it sounds so straightforward (that happens a lot in programming) stopping time may prove harder tho... if unity does pause the camera system as well. then it would require a complete logical separation of physics time from update time - that just might be a lot more trouble than it's worth. but I'm just guessing - I cannot tell exactly how KSP does it's updating and what exactly it would take to do this... my thoughts here as just from being a game programmer (not with Squad) as well.... but i find it a good idea, really. cheers!

i only said that for the case anyone does feel they have a thorough argument to make about that specific feature. venting is one thing - and here it goes very well without problems... (if nobody jumps at anyone's throats, of course) just don't let your good points go unheard because of off-topic'ness - if that's the case and you're right - they're not casually making decisions about stuff. if one thing gets scrapped, they probably have some better idea for doing instead

ppl, if you wanna make a case for resources being reconsidered, this is not the place for it. this thread is off-topic enough as is, but most importantly - in here, you arguments go nowhere. If you can really think of a clear and concise point to make in behalf of that concept, defending it's claim as a core part of the game (which is not how I see it, in my opinion) - take it to the development boards and let this beated thread rest a while. having this discussion in this thread is somewhat likely to be taken as little more than pointless digression (aka: off topic) - take it where it belongs and have it clearly elaborated - then it's a proper suggestion. but make sure it's not put in a confrontational way. that's a sure way to get ignored - be calm, civil, and concise. and think about what exact stuff it is you want - nobody can guess if you don't specify. (try to avoid the TL;DR effect, tho) Ok, the original topic itself might actually be rather moot by now, but then again - topics are set by the thread at start, so starting a new one is the usually a good option if talk goes astray, lest your arguments are hidden behind an irrelevant initial point. I'm not gonna throw any more wood into this fire, anyways. Just back to topic (whatever that still means)

let's clarify what was said: they did not scrap that stuff because it was difficult, complex or something only fun to top-level players -- they scrapped it because it probably wasn't much fun at all if there was a real focus to make the game more polished towards early play, then Kerbin aerodynamics would have gotten a lot more attention by now, don't you think? I mean, early players are barely able to reach space. it takes several failures before a first orbit... a chart is just that, it doesn't mean the game would be better with all that stuff... in my opinion, it'd actually make no sense to add that as a core feature. Mining for me is addon material. (I'm not talking DLC's i mean Mods, really) - It's sci-fi, and has no relation to anything in real life about space science so far. how is that the "biggest mistake ever made"? it's not like they're saying "no" to it, they're just not doing it themselves. -- resources ARE a thing that should be done by a mod, so much in fact: it has been done already. Multiplayer is development-wise a much trickier feature to integrate, and a mod will only go so far in achieving that much. that's why it makes sense to decide this way. clamoring for resources now is kinda like raging on about getting a bunch of extra parts that are the same in functionality as already available -- devs add things that can used to make better mods. and those should be things that mods themselves cannot do. this is what they mean by "scope completion" and "feature completion" - the former means: get all the basic concepts down and working together before doing the latter

you're entitled to your opinion, you know - but i will say you have a rather misgiven perception of their intentions. You have seen nothing of what they have planned for career mode. it's not gonna be a millimeter deep when it's done. and so far, it is barely started. there was no career mode before .22 - do you really mean to be come across as complaining about not getting a massively complicated system that is miles off from the central premise right about a month afterwards? it's sound like you are at the moment, unfortunately relax - we're all friends here. This is not the Spore boards.

i can very much assure you they're not going the way of EA if it was about "dumbing down" to address the lowest common denominator, the game would have remained a 2.5D how-high-can-you-go casual play challenge (as was the early initial plan) - instead, they went for the simulator/sandbox we got today. it makes no sense to invest all that much time and effort in a set of features so overwhelmingly complicated (not the same as "complex", which is a good thing) that it would introduce a million bugs squared with every release, and effectively derail development of core aspects which are far more relevant as far as the general scope is concerned. we all know mining can be very well done by a mod - but it'll only be a good playing experience if the core game it's built on is solid and broadly featured. the route they're going is best described as "broad", not "shallow" - and they're scrapping a set of features that was far too specialized so they can better focus on things that we all would need to have, mining or no mining, and making sure the thing is open ended enough for whomever isn't yet satisfied to go on the spaceport and get more stuff and mind you, comparing them to EA (one the most villainous companies to ever disgrace the gaming industry) -- Spore never did allow for modding, probably because it interfered with their evil master-plans of milking petty content packs. KSP, on the other hand, gives you the Spaceport, which is hosted by Squad and integrated into the main menu. How's that for modding support? It's not easy keeping a project open in that way you know. Modding possibilities must be considered at every turn. Not to discredit the great work put in by modders, but those things they do can only be done because the game was actually built with them in mind. And this has since become a thing most take for granted - which is Ok, as long as nobody goes throwing around the dirty name of that greedy company in comparison, for some falsely perceived idea of what's going on. a chill pill would be a very nice thing to have around here, indeed. relax - go fly something around the Mun. kill some kerbals if you have to...

whoa dude... I first thought this was a necro-post - somehow it's not, or what? what's going on here? am I losing my mind today? I mean, didn't .22 just come out? have you people ever watched Primer? that's kinda how I feel right now...

I think it's safe to rule out the DLC option here... maybe... I mean, at least under the implications of the growingly disfavorable term "DLC" -- if read as "expansion pack" suddenly, all petty worries seem to go away. this is because "DLC" nowadays has a certain connotation of "stuff that was supposed to be already in there but they're making you pay for it" -- we all wanna stay away from that. So better just do away with it and forget those greedy big companies and those horrible things they did to ruin that particular piece of terminology for all the rest of us. anyhow, I still wouldn't hold my breath for any of that resources stuff - the game is simply not ready to handle it and this vastly exceeds the complexity levels of any feature implemented so far... whatever of it ever does come along, it's unlikely to be anytime too soon, and almost certainly not all in one release - this would require near-magical development productivity. the kind of which no budget can provide. game development is a practice that has an unbreakable speed limit. (much as does light) - no amount of money can ever remove or power through this barrier, as management costs (not only financially) grow exponentially with team sizes, converging towards infinity as the intended timeframe constraint nears the asymptote. getting a game done "now" is like dividing by zero, by that logic. this I know 'cause I'm also a game dev. So I've been there... But again: Not working for Squad, so this is me - not them. cheers

Being a mere moderator (we're volunteers you know) I cannot speak for the KSP dev crew about their position on this. I can speak for my own, tho - For just recently, I was mesmerized to learn that this was NOT an aprils fools gag as it had initially struck me. This was presented at a time I was away, and not up to date with KSP development much, if at all. I came back at after it had all been talked away and many fires put out (apparently, this was a big deal back then) - So I knew nothing of it right up until last week or so. I reckon the "DLC incident" and this are closely related - so let's tread lightly, as this might be a rather volcanic topic to be walking around... But I will say that my previous comment was indeed incorrect, as I later learned (to my utter amazement:confused:) - Apparently this had been considered, and that chart is indeed official. But what became of the ideas in it is not very clear at the moment. At least, it's not clear enough for me. Note that I'm not affiliated with Squad in any official way besides patrolling the boards and having HarvesteR for a twin brother... My personal point of view is that this is quite a long shot from the premise and concept of the core game. If anything it'd make a good mod (and has, It's called Kethane) And nevertheless I cannot really tell what state this happens to be in, if abandoned or postponed or whatever... I'm pretty confident that the sketch above is not a good basis for expectations, in any case. But this is mostly my own judgement about the matter (which I understand little of, I'm afraid - and I was not around when it happened) I know that "Patience" is a rather alien notion to the Internet, but then again - It's what I'd recommend. Wait and see. But try not to think about that chart as a "promise" really. I for one, like to see it more as some form of "out loud thinking" by the devs at that one time. Whatever it was that they were thinking... Again, this is not an official statement. Moderators are official as far as their moderating duties go. Most of which is just about ensuring the forums and wiki are not on fire or being attacked by a swarm of Velociraptors (a scenario for which we run regular drills (j/k: we don't - perhaps we should)). As for being family with lead developer, it just might make me less reliable a source, if anything... cheers ----------------- official moderator part -------------------- If this thread evolves into a debate about DLC, it'll be considered off topic and eventually closed.

it's at 1st with 29% over the second runner with 27% now ~800 something votes, I think... let's keep at it, it's neck to neck still

oh well, I did make up at least one of those names, so I can tell you how it came to being. it was over a decade ago, me and my brother (HarvesteR) were at my grandpa's farm trying to light up an Estes shuttle rocket model... not much luck getting it to go, as the propellant was probably all soaked from humidity for some reason, we had cardboard bits and tin foil around - and while idly waiting for some good idea on how to get the thing to light, i wound up a little tin-foil men, and taped it onto a rocket I called the guy a "kerbo" - and quickly made up and absent-minded backstory about him being from a planet called "Kerbin", a name hastily derived from the contraction of Kerbo and Bespin (from StarWars, which was in our heads at the time, when episode 1 was hot news) shortly after that, and an event that resulted in the structural integrity discontinuance of my grandma's erstwhile microwave oven, following the sudden realization that model rockets should NOT EVER be placed inside such an appliance, we started getting better "luck" with the remaining stock of boosters we had from the soon-destroyed shuttle kit and HarvesteR started logging the flights brave attempts, as you can see in my one blog entry - I'm not sure if it was me or him who came up with "Kerbal" from "Kerbo", but eventually it came to being... and "Kerbo" was mostly phased out except for use in contractions, e.g. Kerbonaut and then, it all got made into a game, which was something we thought about back during college - some years later, Squad gave him a chance to go ahead and do it. cheers!

Whadda??! *jawdrop* whoa, that's a pretty awesome rig you got there ...and I had thought I was the one who was more or less completely insane very nice job! - look forward to seeing it in action (any chance you could make a video of it working sometime?) cheers dude!

wait what resources systems are we talking about here? as far as I can tell. the KSP definition of "resources" was something that got implemented some couple of versions ago, and ever since we have things like electricity, intake air, all kinds of fuel and whatnot... and those were the things they called "resources" according to the planned features wiki page, and my own recollection of the last time someone brought this up, there's no reason the term "respurces" should also imply any form of "mining" features in the future, which vastly exceeds the scope of the game. (so far) The chart posted on the thread linked above is almost certainly not official, and is very unlikely to have been actually made by the "authors" it claims... Unless it was from an old "April's fools" gag. (I think that's what it is, really) And yes not only the subject of "mining" is posted on the "what-not-to-suggest" guidelines in the dev. board, it is also a breech of rules to impersonate staff members due to reasons just as obvious as they appear. But that's not what I think happened, that chart was probably from last April, or was it the one before? So that feature was never planned, and was not put back for whatever reasons - "Mining" is just not planned. And that's what we have Kethane for. That's what mods in general are for, really - they add stuff like that, and "weapons" and all those things that don't really "fit", but some would find nice to have in their game. as for the original question - there has been a small number of mod-makers who did get hired, (not necessarily full time) and got their mods, or some aspects of them built into the game. It's worth noting that modding excellence alone is hardly a thing that will warrant such an event. Hiring a modder only makes sense in very specific and somewhat rare cases, where someone creates something that has a high feature overlap with near-future plans, and there are no licencing issues with 3rd party modders or whatever else... (modders get to use open-source code freely, devs need to check if commercial is ok first, plus a bunch of headache) In short - It's complicated, but not like rocket science... The latter I find easier. and I can't really confirm who exactly those hired modders are... not because I'm not allowed to, but simply (and embarrassingly) because I don't really know. you can easily see it on the ingame credits tho... some names should ring a bell, and most devs have their forum usernames in there too. cheers

it wasn't EVERYTHING they tested, you know... one particular bit of very critical hardware would self-destruct upon a single use, so the one carried aboard had really never been tested until it was actually used that was the LEM's ascent engine, btw they did test a bunch of exactly-alike models... but I don't think anyone ever felt much at ease with that whole concept. well, we got *pointerToAVeryLongListOfKerbals stranded on the Mun to clearly depict just what is the worse that could happen (not counting the ones who are dead) and Kerbal-Pogo might not be the same, but it sure is fun... well, fun for me - I don't think those k'nauts are screaming of excitement up there

without an atmosphere, the most 'help' you can get from the Oberth effect is found at the very last inches before you crash i.e. low, fast → faster atmospheres are lil' buggers known to get in the way... you can skim a little on the top, but it'll cost ya... when the drag losses exceed the gains from the effect itself, you're past the point of best efficiency getting exact figures on this is quite tricky, and requires an ungodly amount of math that no reasonable individual should ever have to do by head.... of course, we're not all that reasonable, are we? here's' a fun read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberth_effect

when me and my brother were kids, our mother used to say playing games all day would make us crazy... but we did it anyways she said we should turn it off and go play outside... we didn't and insisted that no teacher would ever give us grades for our skills in gaming... yes unlikely, but.... eventually she stopped being bothered as much, seeing how we were not actually going crazy - at least not as much as she expected, i think... but she was never completely ok with that, at least not for many years... fast forward a couple of decades: me and my brother now both work creating games... and even though we ended up living in countries separated by the whole latitude range of the United States, we have developed our careers in jobs that prove mother wrong with every title we release... one of such, is KSP ...and pursuing my second degree in the field of game development, I have also found there IS a teacher who gives grades for those skills I mentioned.... his class is called "History of Games" -- and it's about those very same ones that should have made us "crazy" but ok, games are bad, aren't they?... whatever they say... I think whoever says that probably just sucks at playing, (or never tried) anyways

It sure did now, didn't it? I kinda saw that coming... but being that this is the general-nonsense boards, there's no reason to lock it for going of topic... even if it did, which is kinda hard to tell As long as everyone can keep their cool, I think it's nice to have debates on complex things. It helps people develop the skills of argumentation, and talking about things drives your brain into looking at them in possibly new ways... just bear in mind that the chance of some brilliant insight coming out of an internet board debate is not much on the plausible side.... yet I'm kinda curious to see how far can it go before someone blows a gasket or whatever

I didn't say anyone did - but there are a lot who think that way out there... I was just making my own point, you know I was born in a very messy country where guns are almost completely banned for regular people, and so the only way to get one is to go through an unbelievable amount of hoops of very unreasonable regulations, or to do what all the crooks usually do - go illegal... I got the hell outta there so I've seen the effects of overbearing control regulations on this matter - it makes things far, far worse - for everyone. it's perhaps just as bad as giving guns for everybody without asking much of anything from them... there's gotta be a point in between that works, i think it seems: the usefulness of a weapon is inversely proportional to that of a brain on the other hand - my career has much to gain from knowing my way around firearms, see... I'm a game programmer

so welcome everyone to one of the most controversial debates in modern human history. i don't think anyone really does have a good answer for the whole humans-and-guns relationship thing... how could they? different places have so many different problems... and statistics are just numbers that can be tortured until they confess to whatever you need them... likelihood of being injured having a gun does not seem to account for a plausible chance that some of those individuals could already be in a situation that poses them a threat, and then they get a gun... (whereas not having it would be even more dangerous for them) and people really do need firearms - just go in the woods and ask a bear. people don't need guns for use against other people, but bad people will eventually get guns themselves - and you cannot not have guns, so what does that leave you? welcome to earth! never mind the bullet holes curious fact - every generations since as far as records go have been saying the world is more dangerous and violent every day... in reality, the numbers show the exact opposite as they change over time maybe someday someone will know what to do with all those guns... for now, just try and keep safe. and as much as possible, don't let this kinda thing affect your life too much - remember, most things are only as safe as they're not free... and I'll be keeping an eye on this thread for any... I don't know... nothing wrong with it yet - but controversial topics seem to make internet trolls hungry... haven't seen many of those around here for a while either - but I remember someone say they can smell fear... be safe

If I may venture a wild argument: I find: "Why is everyone here such a pessimist" is a question that has a somewhat pessimistic bias to it already built in. Wouldn't an optimist ask instead: "Where did all the other optimists go?" perhaps it's not that everyone is a pessimist then - could it not be just that those who do see a better future might be well intent on pursuing it? and maybe they're so dedicated to it, that they forget they were supposed to stop and make a good defense for their case against an internet full of pessimists so why not? -- can't we have an optimistic way of looking at pessimism? "impossible" is a big, thick word - from which the littlest minds borrow size. -- just made that up right now...

my guess is that this is one of those things that it's just "not worth not having" - mind the double negative here. I think 3DConnexxion is making a push so their API is supported by Unity, or maybe it's unity doing the other way around... can't remember - I think it was something like that going on, somehow... this made more sense in my head, before I tried to write it down but as a 6DoF ready player, I'm very much looking forward to what it can possibly do. It'll surely make for some interesting new camera work among the tubes...

first thing that comes to mind here - there is a good chance there's something wrong with your hardware/software if it's really performing in any way as poorly as you describe I own one of the simplest devices 3Dconnexion has to offer (the SpaceNavigator) - it has no flirtatious features like LCD's or a plethora of colorful buttons to go around (it has only 2) - but the thing is precise. very accurate even within the minimal travel distance of no more than ~1cm those things have... mine does not jitter or any produce any unwanted motion in almost any situation. any effects of that kind would only appear should I have it set at near-max speed sensitivity. it is also able to isolate movement on a predominant axis, so that moving one way doesn't mess anything... and that can be toggled by setting one of your buttons to it. I highly recommend it for anyone who has any regular contact with 3d applications - I find it impossible to do without by now, so efficient it makes moving your view however you want - it's the perfect tool for that job. It's not a full precision tool for moving objects around, tho - but still helps a lot in coarsely approaching a final position, when it can be switched on and off (and even get a button assigned for it, in most 3d tools...) then use the 'gizmo' for fine tuning as you need, meanwhile, you can pan around seamlessly. for the lack of a clearer way of saying: the thing has made me spoiled. how on earth can ppl still consider 3d work while having to press some awkward key-mouse combo just to see what's going on... I know I have been there once, myself - but nowadays it seems like a thing of utter madness, seeing others do that I'll also say - it was one of the best cost-benefit purchases I ever made for my PC, all under 100 bucks... not altogether prohibitive, at least - it's the same price you'd pay on a proper gaming mouse, or less - and those still have many less degrees of freedom to offer, in comparison I highly suggest checking for the newest drivers - if anything, I might recall having once some such errant behaviour, perhaps.... I had all but forgotten about it until you mentioned it, as no such weirdness had been noticed from it since some number of years... my poor lil' 3d mouse has even had it's tail USB cord broken - suffice to say, it got that way following an "ex-wife event" that will forever remain logged in my self-regulative behavioral protocols, under a category understatedly entitled: "must not repeat" and following that event -- I did not hesitate at taking the trouble to re-weld that cable. and it's one of those tiny ones, took me several hours... This was a couple of years ago. And today, It still works, albeit now somewhat closer of the USB extension jack for which it formerly hadn't need. word of advice - do yourself a favor and grab a patch of self-adhesive velcro tape at the nearest hardware store (they sell that by the foot) -- but first, make sure you're Ok with sticking that stuff to your desk, just in case. (it's very powerful stickiness) It's highly worth doing it, if so. and maybe it's perhaps not worth the cost, if really you'd get it "just" for KSP -- but as a general investment, it's quite solid in many ways. (including literally - surprisingly heavy little things, they are)

what do you mean by "plot" exactly? are you asking about the physics aspect of figuring out a trajectory over time? or do you mean drawing in onto 3d space? should you mean the latter, KSP uses this thing called Vectrosity for doing that... Otherwise, there are few ways of answering your question other than a big ball of math -- It's not really all that complicated, it just looks that way at first, tho. cheers