[WIP][1.9.x-1.12.x] Scatterer-atmospheric scattering (0.0838 - 14/08/2022) Scattering improvements, in-game atmo generation and multi-sun support

[blackrack]

31 minutes ago, MrMeeb said:

Are there any pros of DX11 versus OpenGL? I know that they're different shaders, but when it comes to forcing one or the other, what's the difference?

Dx11 gives me better performance, it also has antialiasing.

[selfish_meme]

3 hours ago, blackrack said:

Dx11 gives me better performance, it also has antialiasing.

Well OpenGL has antialiasing, just KSP won't use it. You can overide that behaviour from the gpu driver control panel to get antialiasing.

[blackrack]

25 minutes ago, selfish_meme said:

Well OpenGL has antialiasing, just KSP won't use it. You can overide that behaviour from the gpu driver control panel to get antialiasing.

I tried this but it always disappears after I alt-tab out the first time, and I alt-tab out or switch to windowed a lot.

[selfish_meme]

5 minutes ago, blackrack said:

I tried this but it always disappears after I alt-tab out the first time, and I alt-tab out or switch to windowed a lot.

I will have to test I have two monitors so I don't alt-tab a lot

Edit: even in windowed mode?

Edited December 17, 2015 by selfish_meme

[blackrack]

3 minutes ago, selfish_meme said:

I will have to test I have two monitors so I don't alt-tab a lot

Edit: even in windowed mode?

Actually OpenGL won't run in windowed mode on my machine, it gives me an error saying unable to find suitable video mode. If I attempt to start in OpenGL in windowed mode it crashes, if I start in fullscreen and later switch to windowed it crashes. This, coupled with the loss of AA on alt-tab and the abysmal performance makes me favour dx11.

[selfish_meme]

1 hour ago, blackrack said:

Actually OpenGL won't run in windowed mode on my machine, it gives me an error saying unable to find suitable video mode. If I attempt to start in OpenGL in windowed mode it crashes, if I start in fullscreen and later switch to windowed it crashes. This, coupled with the loss of AA on alt-tab and the abysmal performance makes me favour dx11.

Well I would probably put that down to your video card/driver rather than just OpenGL itself (though it does not run AS fast as DirectX), I'm guessing you have a laptop? I used to have an Alienware with SLI GPU's and the thing was horrid 6 months after being new because it required special drivers from Dell who did not keep them as current as the latest nVidia ones. I switched to Linux and I could use the latest Nvidia driver even in SLI and get decent frame rates.

My current Linux box has a GTX570 and at full KSP detail and 1920x1080 resolution I am getting 30+ FPS with 100 part count ships, 32x AA and 16x AF and Scatterer, SVE, Real Plume, planetshine and Windowshine. But that is really determined by my CPU, the i5 2500k was stock 3.3Ghz and that setup would have me at 16FPS, I overclocked it to 4.5Ghz and now have 30+ FPS, it was the 100+ part count ship making the FPS hit.

[blackrack]

29 minutes ago, selfish_meme said:

Well I would probably put that down to your video card/driver rather than just OpenGL itself (though it does not run AS fast as DirectX), I'm guessing you have a laptop? I used to have an Alienware with SLI GPU's and the thing was horrid 6 months after being new because it required special drivers from Dell who did not keep them as current as the latest nVidia ones. I switched to Linux and I could use the latest Nvidia driver even in SLI and get decent frame rates.

My current Linux box has a GTX570 and at full KSP detail and 1920x1080 resolution I am getting 30+ FPS with 100 part count ships, 32x AA and 16x AF and Scatterer, SVE, Real Plume, planetshine and Windowshine. But that is really determined by my CPU, the i5 2500k was stock 3.3Ghz and that setup would have me at 16FPS, I overclocked it to 4.5Ghz and now have 30+ FPS, it was the 100+ part count ship making the FPS hit.

I wish I had invested the extra money and bought a CPU and mobo that support overclocking. With my [email protected] I'm quite careful with the part count. The 2500k is pretty much a legendary CPU.

I usually run at around 40-50 fps with scatterer when I'm not CPU limited, switching to OpenGL makes me run at 27-35 fps and frankly it's quite bad. I have a single 560 Ti with the drivers updated. I believe the bug from OpenGL nor working in windowed mode is common with unity when using a HDMI cable.

 

Btw here's something interesting, KSP's CPU usage with the new CPU waves:

 

Edited December 17, 2015 by blackrack

[blackrack]

Craft-wave interactions, not sure how to embed .webms here

http://s1.webmshare.com/GyaEb.webm

http://s1.webmshare.com/99M1q.webm

Probably I'll just remove the stock splashing effect for now, it's static and a performance hog.

Edited December 17, 2015 by blackrack

[selfish_meme]

2 hours ago, blackrack said:

I wish I had invested the extra money and bought a CPU and mobo that support overclocking. With my [email protected] I'm quite careful with the part count. The 2500k is pretty much a legendary CPU.

I usually run at around 40-50 fps with scatterer when I'm not CPU limited, switching to OpenGL makes me run at 27-35 fps and frankly it's quite bad. I have a single 560 Ti with the drivers updated. I believe the bug from OpenGL nor working in windowed mode is common with unity when using a HDMI cable.

 

Btw here's something interesting, KSP's CPU usage with the new CPU waves:

 

I got that CPU on a mates recommendation, did not even think about overclocking until recently, then it was just a simple multiplier change and a better fan. I don't even run Windows so I can't see the difference, I know when properly optimised the difference can be small. But thats probably not happening here

That's good right, the threads are not very active?

[blackrack]

4 minutes ago, selfish_meme said:

I got that CPU on a mates recommendation, did not even think about overclocking until recently, then it was just a simple multiplier change and a better fan. I don't even run Windows so I can't see the difference, I know when properly optimised the difference can be small. But thats probably not happening here

That's good right, the threads are not very active?

That's as much CPU usage as I can get it, the threads have to wait for the first thread (not the unity main thread) to do some preprocessing before they can get working and that causes them to wait for a bit. Stock KSP uses 25% of my CPU at most, so this means an increase of 40% in CPU usage over extra threads. With the frourier grid at 64 CPU usage is at 40%, so a 15% increase, pretty sure everyone almost should be able to run this. May still cause some slowdowns as the buoyancy can  only be adjusted in the main thread.

[selfish_meme]

those videos look sweet, the stock effect is pretty bad. why is the texture under the waves the runway? the lag time on the waves looks good as long as the wave amplitude is not too high.

 

Oh I see you raised the ocean level so you don't have to frack around launching craft

Though this is already hard enough, are you taking mass into account? By the way -> carrier, with a plane on it! Not an F-14

Picture from my macbook pro which can't run any graphics mods.

Edited December 17, 2015 by selfish_meme

[cobbman11]

@blackrack, you've made a beautiful thing.

[Val]

6 hours ago, blackrack said:

Actually OpenGL won't run in windowed mode on my machine, it gives me an error saying unable to find suitable video mode. If I attempt to start in OpenGL in windowed mode it crashes, if I start in fullscreen and later switch to windowed it crashes. This, coupled with the loss of AA on alt-tab and the abysmal performance makes me favour dx11.

I got that error, too. But it is possible to run OpenGL in windowed mode. You just need to manually edit the resolution, in the KSP settings file, to be a couple pixels smaller than the screen resolution.

So if your resolution is 1920x1080, edit KSP settings file to 1918x1080. Then OpenGL will work fine in -popupwindow mode.

2 hours ago, blackrack said:

Craft-wave interactions, not sure how to embed .webms here

http://s1.webmshare.com/GyaEb.webm

http://s1.webmshare.com/99M1q.webm

Probably I'll just remove the stock splashing effect for now, it's static and a performance hog.

Did you just flood KSC? The horror! 

Wave interaction looks really great. Gonna make sea landings and takeoffs a bit harder, though

[Proot]

5 hours ago, blackrack said:

Craft-wave interactions, not sure how to embed .webms here

http://s1.webmshare.com/GyaEb.webm

http://s1.webmshare.com/99M1q.webm

Probably I'll just remove the stock splashing effect for now, it's static and a performance hog.

It's so cool that hurts, man. You should be hired by Squad, clearly.
BTW I'm the only person who is thinking in kerbal surfing after your videos!?

[blackrack]

 

7 hours ago, selfish_meme said:

those videos look sweet, the stock effect is pretty bad. why is the texture under the waves the runway? the lag time on the waves looks good as long as the wave amplitude is not too high.

 

Oh I see you raised the ocean level so you don't have to frack around launching craft

Though this is already hard enough, are you taking mass into account? By the way -> carrier, with a plane on it! Not an F-14

Picture from my macbook pro which can't run any graphics mods.

Yeah, I did that to speed up testing. Not sure what you mean by lag time on the waves.

 

6 hours ago, Val said:

I got that error, too. But it is possible to run OpenGL in windowed mode. You just need to manually edit the resolution, in the KSP settings file, to be a couple pixels smaller than the screen resolution.

So if your resolution is 1920x1080, edit KSP settings file to 1918x1080. Then OpenGL will work fine in -popupwindow mode.

Did you just flood KSC? The horror! 

Wave interaction looks really great. Gonna make sea landings and takeoffs a bit harder, though

I see, I still prefer to run dx11 for the performance though.

From what I saw landing a sea plane in one piece is nearly impossible, all parts seem to have the splashing tolerance of a biscuit.

[Nansuchao]

Not to talk about the weird physic effect water has for ships, like jumping away from water at more speed than you splashed and the no drag from water, that's really weird.

[Motokid600]

Are white caps default in the current download? Was playing around last night, but I don't remember seeing any.

[blackrack]

2 hours ago, Nansuchao said:

Not to talk about the weird physic effect water has for ships, like jumping away from water at more speed than you splashed and the no drag from water, that's really weird.

Pretty much, the water doesn't have any drag, now imagine landing in the middle of high waves with no way to slow down.

[Azimech]

4 hours ago, blackrack said:

From what I saw landing a sea plane in one piece is nearly impossible, all parts seem to have the splashing tolerance of a biscuit.

Stock won't make a chance. It will be wonderful for my mod though. Any ETA for a test version? I would need to adjust the hydrodynamics. There's a real reason now to have buoyancy off the stern or bow adjusted to the type of vessel, a carrier will cut through the waves much more than a frigate which would run the risk of becoming a submarine using the same behavior.

[blackrack]

28 minutes ago, Azimech said:

Stock won't make a chance. It will be wonderful for my mod though. Any ETA for a test version? I would need to adjust the hydrodynamics. There's a real reason now to have buoyancy off the stern or bow adjusted to the type of vessel, a carrier will cut through the waves much more than a frigate which would run the risk of becoming a submarine using the same behavior.

Well right now there are frequent kraken attacks due to a bug in the buoyancy system (NathanKell said he'd fix this for the next version though) and there are also some other problems I need to fix first so I don't have a real ETA yet even for a test version. Currently it seems rather unstable though, ships are prone to exploding and flying off at any moment, even though I'm using a feature built into the stock buoyancy system to do this.

Btw how do you change the splashdown tolerance of a part? I checked in the part .cfg files and saw only a crash tolerance value.

Edited December 17, 2015 by blackrack

[Darren9]

It looks like a bit of a rough ride Do you still get the splashed down state so you can leave the scene and return to it?

[blackrack]

1 minute ago, Darren9 said:

It looks like a bit of a rough ride Do you still get the splashed down state so you can leave the scene and return to it?

Not really no, working on that.

Plus sometimes you load a ship and it loads higher than where the waves are then falls down 2 meters and breaks into pieces.

[Azimech]

15 minutes ago, blackrack said:

Well right now there are frequent kraken attacks due to a bug in the buoyancy system (NathanKell said he'd fix this for the next version though) and there are also some other problems I need to fix first so I don't have a real ETA yet even for a test version. Currently it seems rather unstable though, ships are prone to exploding and flying off at any moment, even though I'm using a feature built into the stock buoyancy system to do this.

Btw how do you change the splashdown tolerance of a part? I checked in the part .cfg files and saw only a crash tolerance value.

Hmmm AFAIK there is no splashdown tolerance value, but breaking force and breaking torque do have an influence on the interaction with other parts. Might just be the joints breaking as they do with high dynamic pressure in flight. Buoyancy per part can be adjusted in considerable detail, which will affect behavior. Say for example you have a root part with low buoyancy with a two parts connected to the rear and front with a very high buoyancy, it would produce considerable strain on the joints. If a larger number of parts with less buoyancy would be connected to the root part it would reduce the strain a lot.

[blackrack]

5 minutes ago, Azimech said:

Hmmm AFAIK there is no splashdown tolerance value, but breaking force and breaking torque do have an influence on the interaction with other parts. Might just be the joints breaking as they do with high dynamic pressure in flight. Buoyancy per part can be adjusted in considerable detail, which will affect behavior. Say for example you have a root part with low buoyancy with a two parts connected to the rear and front with a very high buoyancy, it would produce considerable strain on the joints. If a larger number of parts with less buoyancy would be connected to the root part it would reduce the strain a lot.

I see, but it still seems that individual parts will be destroyed even plopping in the water at 3m/s.

[Azimech]

That almost sounds like pre 1.0.5 behavior. I can only imagine hydrodynamics becoming pretty complex in the future with all these issues to take care of.