Cool concept, but broken implementation

[Curveball Anders]

I was drawn in by the concept that KSP promised.

Over a year later and as of 1.0.2 I still haven't been let down.

After soon 40 years of gaming, I have a hard time finding any other game which has provided such much fun, anguish, thinking and just raw entertainment as KSP.

Frustrated? Often, but I like to observe, analyse and overcome.

If I was to be left on a deserted island for the rest of my life and had to chose one gadget.

It would be a laptop with KSP on it.

[baggers]

Well, great kudos to you! But how smart are you?

If you are REALLY smart, everything becomes very simple.

Except, that nobody around understands anything about it. First they laugh at you, until you prove you were right. Then they call you arrogant. After that, they get angry and want you GONE!

That is, in a nutshell, my experience with other people.

Edit: Yes, there is even a science that peels apart the people who mostly think they are very smart (the grand majority) and the ones that really are that smart.

The not-so-smart ones tend to arrogance, while the very-smart ones tend to question everything, especially themselves. So, on average, the not-so-smart think they are smarter than how the very-smart think about themselves.

Your complain is as old as the kerb... humanity!

But it don't help the point. I'm sure many forumers want to help you now they understand better your point of view about smart/non smart peoples, but it get really frustrating at this stage to someone like me (a dev', not a kerbal one unfortunately) not have the "proper bug report" we were asked for, or some screenshots, wathever.

The first thing to do for not-so-smart people for helping you (yes, sometimes, it's only what you have ^^) is trying to repeat and understand your case. Give them all you can to do that.

[zekes]

I love the premises of KSP. But if you have even a rudimentary notion of how it all should work, it becomes very frustrating, fast.

How? You've provided no example except for that you "know" how it "should" work. So please, enlighten us (and SQUAD) as to your godlike insight.

Fortunately, modders come to the rescue! Except, that most of the mods that fix important stuff are incompatible. FAR and MechJeb? Forget about it. Yes, I tried the compatibility plugin. And it's FAR from realistic in either case!

FAR and MECHJEB? One of them was the basis of the new atmosphere, and the other is a piloting aid that's really only for people who don't know how orbital mechanics or rocketry work.

I tried to make it all work, and played for 287 hours (according to Steam). But in the end, it's a completely broken mess.

I can't imagine how you spent this much time and still don't understand it. Try using the huge library of online help, how-to, and tutorials to understand a) how the physics of the game works, and how to pilot so you won't miss mechjeb anymore. And again, you're calling this four-year development of KSP a "broken mess" - I can't imagine how you'd react to the older versions.

Yes, it could be salvaged, but it's unlikely that would happen while using Unity. So I won't hold my breath.

"salvaged?" The game you think KSP should be is not what it is going to be. Have fun with your "realistic" and "correct" games, wherever those may be.

[sojourner]

The not-so-smart ones tend to arrogance, while the very-smart ones tend to question everything, especially themselves.

And yet, if you reread your posts, you come off as definitely in group one as opposed to your self professed group two.

[mikegarrison]

Well, great kudos to you! But how smart are you?

If you are REALLY smart, everything becomes very simple.

Except, that nobody around understands anything about it. First they laugh at you, until you prove you were right. Then they call you arrogant. After that, they get angry and want you GONE!

That is, in a nutshell, my experience with other people.

Edit: Yes, there is even a science that peels apart the people who mostly think they are very smart (the grand majority) and the ones that really are that smart.

The not-so-smart ones tend to arrogance, while the very-smart ones tend to question everything, especially themselves. So, on average, the not-so-smart think they are smarter than how the very-smart think about themselves.

Speaking of the very smart ones questioning everything, especially themselves: if other people always react badly to you, you should consider whether the problem might lie in your own behavior. The vast majority of really, really smart people are also very good at social skills (or at least, capable of being very good at social skills). After all, social skills are usually just another thing you can learn. Some of the friendliest, most likeable people I ever met were at MIT, and they were also the smartest people I ever met - smart enough to realize that a little effort spent on being friendly can pay off very handsomely.

There are some kinds of cognitive disorders that specifically link high general intelligence with poorly functional social abilities. But most really smart people are actually more capable socially than average, if they want to be.

[NoPanShabuShabu]

Well, great kudos to you! But how smart are you?

If you are REALLY smart, everything becomes very simple.

Except, that nobody around understands anything about it. First they laugh at you, until you prove you were right. Then they call you arrogant. After that, they get angry and want you GONE!

That is, in a nutshell, my experience with other people.

Edit: Yes, there is even a science that peels apart the people who mostly think they are very smart (the grand majority) and the ones that really are that smart.

The not-so-smart ones tend to arrogance, while the very-smart ones tend to question everything, especially themselves. So, on average, the not-so-smart think they are smarter than how the very-smart think about themselves.

I don't think I've ever seen the Dunning-Kruger effect described by one of it's subject before. Well played sir!

[Fishslap]

I know how it all should work.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks.

See, this is where you get vague. Because I don`t think you do. Astrophysicist gamer Scott Manley seems to think it`s working as it should for the most part. You`ll have to give me some reason to take your word over his when all you do is state unceremoniously that you know how things should work. What is it that you know how should work and why are you omitting it from your post?

[Mr. Scruffy]

Well, great kudos to you! But how smart are you?

If you are REALLY smart, everything becomes very simple.

Except, that nobody around understands anything about it. First they laugh at you, until you prove you were right. Then they call you arrogant. After that, they get angry and want you GONE!

That is, in a nutshell, my experience with other people.

Edit: Yes, there is even a science that peels apart the people who mostly think they are very smart (the grand majority) and the ones that really are that smart.

The not-so-smart ones tend to arrogance, while the very-smart ones tend to question everything, especially themselves. So, on average, the not-so-smart think they are smarter than how the very-smart think about themselves.

Well, You sir, come off as being about this smart (to me, anyways):

[...]

Ok, in the cinema there's this lad who, well to say he was a friend of a friend would be going too far. More a hanger on of an acquaintance. Anyway, every social group will have one of these guys attached to it at some point. Small, weedy, boring. Talks about himself a LOT. If you are feeling charitable you could describe him as a Walter Mitty, if not he's just full of crap. Anyway. At the cinema waiting for a film to start and this lad, scrawny, greasy, boring, nobody quite knows who he is with or whose friend he is meant to be, launches into a monologue. I will quote it for you as close to verbatim as possible. One of the lads in this group is a boxer, really nice guy but tough as nails, almost went into boxing professionally but decided to study instead. Anyway the conversation has turned to his training regime and this other scrawny little bloke buts in;

"Yeah. People have no idea. It's all ........ maaaaaan. I mean yeah, I could go to the gym, I could get biceps like this *makes gesture* and legs like this *another gesture*. i could get a six pack, no problem. But *drag on cigarette* what I have to do, is ask myself the question, do I want that? *ostentatious drag on cigarette, pause for dramatic effect*. The answer... is no. My body is a weapon. I mean, you get in a fight, what good is that? What people don't realise IS that say, say somebody comes at you with a knife. He's putting himself at an immediate disadvantage. What's he got? A knife. One weapon. I've got two fists, two legs, two knees, two elbows *indicates body parts in turn as though we didn't know where they are*. If he loses his knife, what's he got then? Take these bouncers at clubs. Sure, they look tough. Perhaps one of them could take me in a bar fight. *draw on cigarette* Perhaps. But I'd like to see how any of them could cope against me in "the octagon". I was in the city once, went into this bar. Looked normal from the outside but what I didn't know was it was a gangster bar. Guy behind the bar goes "get the .... out of here" but I'm in no mood for .... so I tell him to get me a drink. He pulls this revolver from behind the bar and points it straight at me. I didn't sweat. Looked at the revolver, saw the safety was on. Looked him straight in the eyes and said "Are you going to serve me, or are you going to shoot me?" He pulls the trigger and it doesn't work cos of the safety and he keeps pulling the trigger but *drag on cigarette* I just keep my cool. Then, he puts his gun down and says "Hey man, you're cool man, ain't nothing scares you". *chuckles and shakes head* I got my drink. And THAT *draws on cigarette ostentatiously* is how I won the respect of the Yardies."

Several of us made our excuses and left. The rest of us were too astonished to say anything and just sat there staring while he sat in a haze of cigarette smoke looking smug. It was possibly the oddest ten minutes of my entire life.

This is not to insult you, but to put into perspective, for your own benefit, how you present yourself to others.

[Sky_walker]

I can't imagine how you spent this much time and still don't understand it. Try using the huge library of online help, how-to, and tutorials to understand a) how the physics of the game works, and how to pilot so you won't miss mechjeb anymore. And again, you're calling this four-year development of KSP a "broken mess" - I can't imagine how you'd react to the older versions.

I think he does understand it, he just thinks it's a broken mess. From his post I guess he is an advocate of realism, and KSP is really far, far away from being great in that regard.

[edit] Seems like I got it right - here is his post where he expands on the issues and gives some examples: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/115440-Cool-concept-but-broken-implementation/page2?p=1838892#post1838892

Edited May 11, 2015 by Sky_walker

[KerbMav]

"Everyone will please, not panic. Now, Prefects will lead their houses back to the dormitories. Teachers will follow me to the dungeons."

[selfish_meme]

I think he does understand it, he just thinks it's a broken mess. From his post I guess he is an advocate of realism, and KSP is really far, far away from being great in that regard.

[edit] Seems like I got it right - here is his post where he expands on the issues and gives some examples: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/115440-Cool-concept-but-broken-implementation/page2?p=1838892#post1838892

Except he doesn't, he mixes up video memory with RAM and physx an NVidia product with ingame physics and thinks going to uni makes you smart.

He also ignores anything that does not fit into his worldview, like the fact that it is a game, he should really just stick with orbiter or something.

[Linear]

Except he doesn't, he mixes up video memory with RAM and physx an NVidia product with ingame physics and thinks going to uni makes you smart.

He also ignores anything that does not fit into his worldview, like the fact that it is a game, he should really just stick with orbiter or something.

Only mistakes that really mean anything were the mix up with VRAM and RAM and that 'using FAR breaks mechjeb'. Mechjeb works fine in FAR, you just have to change a few things.

But, all of that aside, it's time this argument stops. It's pointless.

[Xacktar]

"Everyone will please, not panic. Now, Prefects will lead their houses back to the dormitories. Teachers will follow me to the dungeons."

Nailed it.

[rodion_herrera]

Sometimes I'm amazed at how much time and passion people have in posting and discussing stuff like this, when I even barely have enough free time to play the game itself!

[Sky_walker]

when I even barely have enough free time to play the game itself!

Your number of posts seems to say a different story...

Except he doesn't, he mixes up video memory with RAM and physx an NVidia product with ingame physics and thinks going to uni makes you smart.

Wow, we're really down to the level of nit picking?

[rodion_herrera]

Your number of posts seems to say a different story...

Spread out since May of 2013. I checked my post Statistics and it says a figure of 1.43 posts a day. Let's say I spend 5 minutes to write a rather long post. That means I only spend roughly between 5-20 minutes a day on the forum, the same time I spend drinking coffee or putting on my clothes to go to work (the reality is, I spend months at a time totally away from this forum or KSP when out doing fieldwork, and my activity in both forum and in-KSP are usually clustered on huge chunks of free time like vacations etc). Meanwhile, going to the Mun (and back) on a fine ship would probably take a good one or two hours of my free time, which is difficult to do (unless I reason out to my boss that I'm playing KSP at work to do "research", which is very valid, because I'm a basic astronomy lecturer for elementary and high school kids).

I like your math.

Edited May 11, 2015 by rodion_herrera

[selfish_meme]

Your number of posts seems to say a different story...

Wow, we're really down to the level of nit picking?

The whole thread is nitpicking

[Broax]

There is a great deal of people having fun with this game... The vannila game is easy enough for just about anyone to jump in and those that want a challange can mod the crap out of it...

I think the game has its flaws but for the most part the its quite succesful at doing what it does...

It surely doesn't please everyone but since it can't it shouldn't try...

So, my opinion is easy... The game doesn't need to be salvaged... I'm sorry its not up to the standards of the OP but the game's success speaks for itself and its arrogant to think otherwise...

You might be very smart and you might know alot about physics but you don't seem to know much about business... :-p

[X-SR71]

I'm really glad I'm dumb enough to greatly enjoy the game in its current form!

[Red Iron Crown]

This thread has run its course and seems to be devolving into personal attacks. Closed.