Intrepid & Daring. Shuttle-looking space trucks. Updated with a new wing and less parts!

[Rune]

So, new day, new wing, new SSTO. This one is a handsome fellow!

And not only handsome, but useful! Plenty of crew space allows you to do crew transfers on the same flight you bring stuff up, and a spacious payload bay, specifically sized for low density payloads (sample payload is half full so it is around 20mT). It was designed actually to supplant the Dao because I was always running out of room before I run out of weight. Plus, it has somewhat of a margin in there, and it handles sweetly. And best of all, it does all things, plus the good looking part, in a modest 170 parts. It is not up to my usual ridiculous standards, I know (I have shuttles that use less parts), but all the intakes to feed those turboRAPIERs take their toll, and if you want to go big, you have to provide enough oommph. This one turned out more awesome than usual. Enjoy the flights!

A look at some statistics and stuff, so you know what you are getting into:

And now the flight manual! My usual building tricks are used, and I took the time to write up the action groups in the file:

The flight profile is, again, standard SSTO with the turboRAPIER twist. You know... "as fast as possible to 20kms, keep vertical speed under 100m/ds until 25kms, level there for a speed run, when you go over ~1,500m/s start building vertical speed for the rocket takeover". The twist being you will have two flameouts, first when the RAPIERs switch modes, and then a second one when one of the turbojets actually goes. Or not, because the last time I did it I got a 80 km apoapsis without turning off the jets... the air is routed so the spool down without asymmetric flameouts, so you can milk every last air atom.

And speaking about routing, I also did some magic and managed put both tanks so they drain evenly, so keep that in mind when refuelling, put the same amount in both tanks and that way the CoM won't move at all. The CoM, of course, being smack in the middle of the payload bay. Ditto for filling it up for maximum rocket delta-v, or to put only liquid fuel for atmospheric flights, just fill both tanks to the same level and the ship will be balanced. Simple, right?

Edit: Update of the update! After a few not-really-prods form people using FAR, and realizing I had more potential wing area, I switched the wing to a more legit single-layer one, which might even give this some hope of surviving the aerodynamic revamp coming next week with some further modifications. The imgur album is a mix of two, I think you can differentiate them by wing (the old one joins the rear body in a different spot) and because I have put the shots of the new one right after the pic showing the (considerable) difference in wing area while retaining the shape. I'll probably do a new thread if I come up with a 1.0 compatible version, but for a week, I think that'll work. As such, I offer both versions now. In the nice news category, the resulting version, Daring, is even more economical in parts, clocking in at an even 150. As not-so-good-news, wing loading is substantially higher, so takeoff speed is about 90m/s and lading on full tanks is a certainly not for the faint of heart. Enjoy!

IMGUR ALBUM:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

DOWNLOADS:

MK LI Intrepid - Old one

MK LIb Daring - Updated file one

Rune. I think the names are adequate for SSTOs built just one week before the souposphere vanishes, don't you?

Edited April 21, 2015 by Rune

[Yukon0009]

Good stuff as usual rune, keep it up!

[inigma]

I notice an upgraded tail fin from shot to shot Looks great! Surprised you get it up there without using the orange tank fuel.

[ryan234abc]

I saw it in a pervious post of yours on another thread and it looked so good I was tempted to ask for a craft file. But alas here it is. I really like the mk3 shuttles and your never fail to deliver. Great again as always!

[Rune]

Good stuff as usual rune, keep it up!

Thanks! Will try

I notice an upgraded tail fin from shot to shot Looks great! Surprised you get it up there without using the orange tank fuel.

Yup, it was a bit too pointy, and in the end it was probably the most problematic thing in the build. Looks good now though, I think. And about teh fuel efficiency... Turbo-RAPIERs are the best thing since sliced bread, frankly. Best thrust curve for a SSTO, and with a ~3:1 intake ratio (so 6:1 for a turboRAPIER assembly), by the time you close the intakes after the jets give out, you have a >60kms apoapsis.

I saw it in a pervious post of yours on another thread and it looked so good I was tempted to ask for a craft file. But alas here it is. I really like the mk3 shuttles and your never fail to deliver. Great again as always!

You are welcome! Enjoy and tell me how it goes.

Rune. I wanna be able to stamp the "noob-friendly" stamp on this, what do you guys think? Does it handle easy enough?

[Redshift OTF]

Oh yes, I'll have this one.

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

This is, as always, amazing!

I couldn't believe it was a ssto when I first saw it! +rep

[inigma]

Thanks! Will try

Yup, it was a bit too pointy, and in the end it was probably the most problematic thing in the build. Looks good now though, I think. And about teh fuel efficiency... Turbo-RAPIERs are the best thing since sliced bread, frankly. Best thrust curve for a SSTO, and with a ~3:1 intake ratio (so 6:1 for a turboRAPIER assembly), by the time you close the intakes after the jets give out, you have a >60kms apoapsis.

Turbo Rapiers... is that 2/3 of the TURAN stack I published in the aesthetics thread? Without the Nuke? You bet it gives best thrust curve!

Now if I made an orange tank capable SSTO...I wonder if I could turn my OCD into producing something... well... hmmm...

[HoloYolo]

Very, very nice. Thanks for the great craft.

[Darth Lazarus]

holy mothher of kerbin

awesome looking , well done Rune

[Rune]

holy mothher of kerbin

awesome looking , well done Rune

Very, very nice. Thanks for the great craft.

Oh yes, I'll have this one.

Thanks and help yourselves! We are practically giving them away

This is, as always, amazing!

I couldn't believe it was a ssto when I first saw it! +rep

Thanks! Those Mk3 fuselages sure hold a lot of fuel...

Turbo Rapiers... is that 2/3 of the TURAN stack I published in the aesthetics thread? Without the Nuke? You bet it gives best thrust curve!

Now if I made an orange tank capable SSTO...I wonder if I could turn my OCD into producing something... well... hmmm...

Yup, they are, and for ground to space, they end up being much more efficient due to high TWR (less engine mass to bring up) than if they had nukes. For high efficiency transfers (say, you want one of these to self-deploy to Laythe), you could always put one of my Drive Pods on the payload bay and dock it to the nose port once in space: it'll draw fuel perfectly fine, and give you high isp thrust for in-space propulsion. Or use some other transfer stage docked to the rear Sr. port, if going backwards looks weird to you.

Rune. SSTOs are for lifting stuff just outside an atmosphere!

[Radam]

Gonna have to try it with far aswell.

Still i think Dao is a more efficient use of a large cargo bay. I even made it to orbit with far installed, just removed the second layer of wings. A slightly less cargo to orbit tho.

[ryan234abc]

Gave it a few test flights. Handles really well, although without SAS and/or RCS it tends to nose dive, particularly in re-entry without RCS. NOT DISSING IT!!! I wouldn't call it noob friendly but it certainly isn't Scott Manley skilled either, if you get what I mean. Either way its a great craft and I intend to keep using it. I do like these mk3 crafts you make, I must say.

[Hobbes Novakoff]

And another masterpiece from the Rune.

[Radam]

Well I cant get it to fly well with FAR. Removed upper wing and lowered the hull abit for stability. With wings at half strength and even less "cargo" the craft is at 73t and barely takes off at the end of the runway. Then it cant hold its nose up at 5km up anymore, followed by unplanned disassembly as level speed reaches 400ms at 5km.

Curiously all stability indicators were green when I started modifications. Probably not enough wing area as it takes 14 degrees of AOA for a level flight at 120ms. 160 is what I reach at the end of the runway.

[Cupcake...]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Rune again.

Damn it.

Cupcake...

[Rune]

Gonna have to try it with far aswell.

Still i think Dao is a more efficient use of a large cargo bay. I even made it to orbit with far installed, just removed the second layer of wings. A slightly less cargo to orbit tho.

So they have the wing area to fly in FAR? Things look good for 1.0 then! Thanks for that comment! Of course countless tweaking will be neccessary, and the new Mk3 wings will surely play a part, but that's highly encouraging.

Well I cant get it to fly well with FAR. Removed upper wing and lowered the hull abit for stability. With wings at half strength and even less "cargo" the craft is at 73t and barely takes off at the end of the runway. Then it cant hold its nose up at 5km up anymore, followed by unplanned disassembly as level speed reaches 400ms at 5km.

Curiously all stability indicators were green when I started modifications. Probably not enough wing area as it takes 14 degrees of AOA for a level flight at 120ms. 160 is what I reach at the end of the runway.

Ok, maybe they don't. But still, the miracle would be that they flew at all, so I'm still thinking getting used to the new stock aero won't be that hard after all, there's room for a bigger delta wing in there, at least 25% bigger. Thanks again for the input!

Gave it a few test flights. Handles really well, although without SAS and/or RCS it tends to nose dive, particularly in re-entry without RCS. NOT DISSING IT!!! I wouldn't call it noob friendly but it certainly isn't Scott Manley skilled either, if you get what I mean. Either way its a great craft and I intend to keep using it. I do like these mk3 crafts you make, I must say.

Yeah, I made it statically stable, which means if you let her go it'll behave like a dart. Still couldn't make it stable enough that it you can't lose her completely (having a wing sit so low means the whole thing will fly happier upside down), but you have enough control authority at all points in the flight, and frankly, I always fly with SAS on. Thanks for the objective comment!

And another masterpiece from the Rune.

One does one's best...

Damn it.

Cupcake...

Haha, that happens a lot to me too. No problems, I prefer the comments!

Rune. Even if I'm just shy of my second kilorep. Thank you guys!

Edited April 19, 2015 by Rune

[Radam]

I meant i was able to get to orbit with Dao but not Intrepid.

Might be as Dao has a split wing with elevators in front and a whole lot in the back.

Tbh, im not an expert. I use rapiers and turbojets without wings...

Update: I put some cat whiskers "winglets" on the front of the cockpit and I got Intrepid to orbit with FAR. Using mechjebs spaceplane hold function from liftoff... Only problem being that it was completely dry. Including cargo tank. Rapiers were staged at about 1200ms but vertical speed was only 10ms at the time. Tanks being mostly empty from getgo means alot of dead weight.

Are you using some kind of a mod to attach the intakes radially? A debug feature I forgot about?

Edited April 20, 2015 by Radam

[Rune]

I meant i was able to get to orbit with Dao but not Intrepid.

Might be as Dao has a split wing with elevators in front and a whole lot in the back.

Tbh, im not an expert. I use rapiers and turbojets without wings...

Update: I put some cat whiskers "winglets" on the front of the cockpit and I got Intrepid to orbit with FAR. Using mechjebs spaceplane hold function from liftoff... Only problem being that it was completely dry. Including cargo tank. Rapiers were staged at about 1200ms but vertical speed was only 10ms at the time. Tanks being mostly empty from getgo means alot of dead weight.

http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/532891003870456430/A048F3B1DED9FE85F4267CE9B2ED7CB15B31F420/

Are you using some kind of a mod to attach the intakes radially? A debug feature I forgot about?

The surface attachment of things that don't let you usually surface-attach comes courtesy of Ed Tools, which lets you toggle it on (and off! used to be almost more important) for every part. You can also do it by hand in the config files, of course.

Also, turns out I could cram quite a bit more wing area without losing the form, and it can actually fly on a single layer of wing:

So you know, in FAR all you would have to do is put the hidden canards out in the open (ruining the looks of course). Or you know, it may even get enough control authority on the rear surfaces, and you can just move the wing forwards. Since I've never used FAR, it's just educated guesses I'm making, of course.

Also, true structural rigidity on the landing gear assembly still eludes me. Might do a MkII before uploading on R-SUV, though it actually handles quite worse, and takeoff is... well you have to exploit the elasticity of landing gear . But only because it sags in the first place! No tailstrikes, tough. Anyone care to explain to me the part that I don't get about struts? I have like eight on each gear in the wings, connected to the main body...

Rune. Party count, tough, is happy: down to 145 on an empty bay!

Edited April 20, 2015 by Rune
It does indeed make orbit on a single wing!

[Roflcopterkklol]

Nice craft rune, love that you managed to get a shuttle style SSTO working that is actually useful as a cargo transport, well done.

[Radam]

This is what Ive been fiddling with. Trying to make it far compatible and so maybe 1.0 compatible... Observe the part count.

[Rune]

http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/532891003872127801/B2661975D77CCA587B9ACA9A1F590EC98CEB8A8D/

This is what Ive been fiddling with. Trying to make it far compatible and so maybe 1.0 compatible... Observe the part count.

Wow, the wing does lose quite a bit without the wing strakes. Have you seen the wing pics in the previous page? I recommend trying to recreate those, they have quite a bit of surface area over the old ones, yet they still look mostly the same. Or you could wait until I get around to releasing the MkII, probably some time today, and do to it what you did to this (though I doubt the nuke really helps... low TWR and it's 2.5mT you are lugging to space). And yeah, I approve the part count . Mostly by taking out intakes, right?

In other news, wohoo!! This was the thread that got me a reputation "that cannot be measured". Two "kilorep" in about two "kiloposts"! Glad you like my stuff guys.

Rune. It's easy to work out the average.

[Radam]

Some a bit more curve...

I dont have landing gears on wings, but on the body. Probably why it weers off on a runway. And the wing is not grown from one part. So I dont need any struts.

Wing comparison, left are yours. Right one is mine, with red line being an outline of your bigger one. 165m2 of wing area in FAR seems to be enough to get to orbit with full cargo. If It doesnt dissasemble on the runway.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Radam

[Rune]

http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/532891003872127801/B2661975D77CCA587B9ACA9A1F590EC98CEB8A8D/

Some a bit more curve...

I dont have landing gears on wings, but on the body. Probably why it weers off on a runway. And the wing is not grown from one part. So I dont need any struts.

http://i.imgur.com/LNuKEiD.png

Wing comparison, left are yours. Right one is mine, with red line being an outline of your bigger one. 165m2 of wing area in FAR seems to be enough to get to orbit with full cargo. If It doesnt dissasemble on the runway.

Wow, I'm loving how I got you inspired to do this in a completely different way. And next week we shall see which one is closer to work on the new stock model! In the meantime, I think I will post the new one, if only to give people something to play with until it dies the quickest death of any of my SSTOs (Most likely. I still haven't given up on actually tweaking a couple of things and still having it work!).

So, after performing the most demanding landing test of all, an immediate abort a RTLS without burning any propellant (other than the one neccessary to keep horizontal speed), I can say it handles good enough on stock. And I got the part count to be a nice and round 150!

The landing gear still sags a little, but having the whole wing rooted on the tip is incredibly useful (you can, for example, use the wing as a subassembly, or move it with a couple clicks), so I don't think I will give that up. Besides, as long as you don't have the breaks engaged on touchdown (doing that gave me quite the scare until I disengaged them), the bounce actually makes it easier on the tail leg, which is the one that protects the engines from tailstriking and you from having a really bad day. I have set her down (on stock) with about 8m/s of vertical speed safely at full takeoff load!

Rune. Check the OP for the update!

[Majorjim!]

Good work on this Rune! I have tried (and failed) to make a MK3 SSTO.. Ho hum, looks like you have it well covered though!

MJ