Squadcast Summary for 2015-04-18 - Picture Perfect Edition!

[tygoo7]

Why, why, are the fairings like that? Fairings aren't like that in real life!

[r4pt0r]

Why, why, are the fairings like that? Fairings aren't like that in real life!

Its ok, we can fix this.

[Van Disaster]

Why no procedural parts? Squad feels it removes the lego feel and gameplay restraints - fuel tank this big, engine this bug, boom done, Squad like to see the solutions people come up with fixed sizes of things.

This is ridiculous - you can have a procedural tank with a set number of sizes to choose from, you still have the same lego construction but you don't clutter the UI up with a huge pile of seperate but similar looking parts. Even wing elements which have a bunch of different shapes could be done like that. It also means you can edit in place without pulling half your craft apart and get back to flying quicker. Want to add a new engine size later? provide a new texture atlas for your tank, quick cfg update later and you've got most of the rest of your new system done.

No mention of bigger aero control surfaces?

[RobotsAndSpaceships]

take my sig bud

I love your new sig.

(Ore can be converted to whatever propellant you want).

NOPE.

Edited April 18, 2015 by RobotsAndSpaceships

[Capt Snuggler]

everything looks great to me except the single "ore" resource.

I've just finished reading Robert Zubrin's book and was really looking forward to designing my chemical plant lander. electrolyzing water, splitting CO2, combining the products to make CH4 fuel.

The "magic ore" resource system just means every rock is made of fuel. Bit dull don't you think?

Hopefully its easy to mod.

Edited April 18, 2015 by Capt Snuggler

[Bill Phil]

This is ridiculous - you can have a procedural tank with a set number of sizes to choose from, you still have the same lego construction but you don't clutter the UI up with a huge pile of seperate but similar looking parts. Even wing elements which have a bunch of different shapes could be done like that. It also means you can edit in place without pulling half your craft apart and get back to flying quicker. Want to add a new engine size later? provide a new texture atlas for your tank, quick cfg update later and you've got most of the rest of your new system done.

No mention of bigger aero control surfaces?

Life is full of disappointments. I prefer having a list of parts and then putting stuff together. It's like a puzzle. And that's half the game, right there, too.

I'm sorry, but sometimes you have to deal with things. Life is like that. And it does suck, but there are mods you can use. This is actually an okay argument here because proc parts aren't really suited to the game's puzzle of building rockets.

[RobotsAndSpaceships]

And that's half the game, right there, too.

Correct me if I'm wrong but this is hyperbole, right? Putting tanks on your rocket is less than a fifteenth of the game.

[Norcalplanner]

Some of us do actually enjoy puttering about in the VAB. Building rockets out of premade parts is fun. So is using procedural parts to min/max a particular design. It's all good. :-)

[stibbons]

The "magic ore" resource system just means every rock is made of fuel. Bit dull don't you think?

Hopefully its easy to mod.

We already have rich and complicated resource gathering and refinement mods (personally I'm a fan of Karbonite combined with TAC Life Support). They won't be evaporating.

[Bill Phil]

Correct me if I'm wrong but this is hyperbole, right? Putting tanks on your rocket is less than a fifteenth of the game.

It's half the game for people who are new to it. It's half the game because it takes a while to fix things so they work. Unless you're experienced. Like a puzzle. That's what KSP is, at it's core. A puzzle. That is why using proc parts isn't really that good of a direction for stock to go. Figuring a puzzle out is much more fun and gives a greater feeling of accomplishment than having a tool to solve it for you.

Some like KSP's space aspects. So they prefer to bypass the building aspects. That's fine. However, KSP is, at its core, a puzzle game.

And experienced players are still learning. Just a lot slower.

[B-STRK]

Just as I'm finally getting my 0.90 sandbox really going (considering that school got in the way when Beta released), now with 1.0 looming on the horizon and about to change up my entire game... it's like the universe is telling me something.

Anyway, reacts:

I'm definitely with those wondering about multiple uses of heatshields (is there such a thing as a reusable (or at least dense enough for a grand tour with aerobraking) heat shield? I mean, I know even the Shuttle TPS tiles were a lot of work post-landing, and highly fragile on the way up and down, which kind of reduces their practical use as a reusable permanent heat shield). Although given the Lego approach, the idea Bill Phil gave certainly shows a design engineering solution to a materials science problem... Wonder how this affects the heat shields on space planes--are those ablative, too?

Kinda worried about that "good GPU... chugging" line there... point in comparison: scene changes in 0.90 for me sometimes "stick" to the point where Task Manager says "not responding", even if memory usage is <1mb... Running in high quality (if not full) graphics settings and default other graphics options (light sources, etc.), and I do have a separate graphics card on this laptop. And ATM at the moment. On the other hand, liking the load optimizations. Especially if it can translate to lower memory requirements, = just a little extra room for mods?

I wish there was a larger electric put-put engine (greater thrust) to go with the larger Xe tank... but yeah, I know, Lego approach. I like Legos, I appreciate the design challenge.

Aaaand I'm not liking the multi-segmented fairings in the screenshots, if only for the parts count. I know, its probably not that many parts for a given payload (unless we're talking about a large payload here?), and it doesn't count towards final in-orbit parts count (unless they're made a non-thermal part of the aeroshell?). Maybe the approach does lend itself to different load sizes (heights per given diameter), without having to go procedural (again, going Lego). That said, I kind of prefer the approach used in the SpaceY payload fairings parts (haven't played with it so much since ProcFairings, but I think it's baseplate + nosecap, and the fairings get plugged in between automatically, so it can accommodate a range of payload heights?).

Oh, hai 6S! (I never did get a hang of using the mod back in 23.5, though the widgets should make interior placements easier now.)

I've loved EPL either with Kethane or Karbonite/Regolith integration, but hopefully the base ore in 1.0 will be the base ISRU for EPL and *some others. At the least, I can worry about one less mod to plug in (though I will miss those propfan engines in Karb...). I tend to prefer my resources abstracted... and few to manage.

*EDIT: Some. People do prefer a more diverse ISRU management game, and that's okay. Thematically, I'm the opposite. Hey, RoverDude did say that his MKS/OKS is highly abstracted, and I still feel it's a lot of management work (so sticking to Karb for the moment). And I like Snacks as a life support mod.

I see the old Mk2/Mk 1 inline there. I wonder if there will be a proper IVA in the 1.0 release... (Was there a proper IVA in the 0.90 release? I haven't touch the pod yet). And--considering the mod IVA for it showed that there's way too much room in there for one Kerbal... I wonder if, if the inline stays in 1.0, it could b made a 2-place inline? Probably won't happen, but it's nice to think.

Anyway, time to make a backup copy of 0.90 for what I've got in saves now. I don't think my designs there will be appropriate for 1.0's new aero...

Edited April 18, 2015 by B-STRK

[smjjames]

everything looks great to me except the single "ore" resource.

I've just finished reading Robert Zubrin's book and was really looking forward to designing my chemical plant lander. electrolyzing water, splitting CO2, combining the products to make CH4 fuel.

The "magic ore" resource system just means every rock is made of fuel. Bit dull don't you think?

Hopefully its easy to mod.

Its been said repeatedly that the ore resource and the resource system are heavily moddable. Heck, it's been programmed mostly (okay maybe not mostly, but I do know that he has had heavy involvement in it) by RoverDude.

[Guest]

Why no procedural parts? Squad feels it removes the lego feel and gameplay restraints - fuel tank this big, engine this bug, boom done, Squad like to see the solutions people come up with fixed sizes of things.

Someone's obviously never used procedural tanks. Thanks for continuing to inflate vessel parts count for no good reason.

New aerodynamics is fully configurable - adding a cfg that can be edited as you, as a player, desire. Too hard or easy? Change it!

This is going to be hilarious.

The fairing separation isn't very good, should be a two-piece clamshell.

Otherwise this update is looking very good. Can't wait to see how a launch goes.

[Van Disaster]

Correct me if I'm wrong but this is hyperbole, right? Putting tanks on your rocket is less than a fifteenth of the game.

There's sound technical reasons for procedural parts even with limited discrete steps, I don't really get Squad's stance on it, but it's an argument that's been running for years.

Edited April 18, 2015 by Vanamonde

[LABHOUSE]

everything looks great to me except the single "ore" resource.

I've just finished reading Robert Zubrin's book and was really looking forward to designing my chemical plant lander. electrolyzing water, splitting CO2, combining the products to make CH4 fuel.

The "magic ore" resource system just means every rock is made of fuel. Bit dull don't you think?

Hopefully its easy to mod.

Not all rocks are fuel, but any rock can be improvised as fuel.

[RoverDude]

everything looks great to me except the single "ore" resource.

I've just finished reading Robert Zubrin's book and was really looking forward to designing my chemical plant lander. electrolyzing water, splitting CO2, combining the products to make CH4 fuel.

The "magic ore" resource system just means every rock is made of fuel. Bit dull don't you think?

Hopefully its easy to mod.

Very. And not every rock... and you even get a difficulty slider

We already have rich and complicated resource gathering and refinement mods (personally I'm a fan of Karbonite combined with TAC Life Support). They won't be evaporating.

Nope, but Karbonite will be built on the stock resource framework

Its been said repeatedly that the ore resource and the resource system are heavily moddable. Heck, it's been programmed mostly (okay maybe not mostly, but I do know that he has had heavy involvement in it) by RoverDude.

Pretty significant No worries, I kinda look forward to what people will make with it.

[wolfedg]

Correct me if I'm wrong but this is hyperbole, right? Putting tanks on your rocket is less than a fifteenth of the game.

Well individual experience may vary, but for me constructing a rocket is half the game. I also agree with the lego-like design philosophy for the stock game. This coming from a huge fan of the procedural parts mod, because I like stock to be ...well... stock.

[RobotsAndSpaceships]

However, KSP is, at its core, a puzzle game.

This is 200% untrue.

[wolfedg]

This is 200% untrue.

From a quick define on google

puz·zle

ˈpəzəl/

verb (removed for brevity)

noun

noun: puzzle; plural noun: puzzles

1.

a game, toy, or problem designed to test ingenuity or knowledge.

short for jigsaw puzzle (see jigsaw).

a person or thing that is difficult to understand or explain; an enigma.

"the meaning of the poem has always been a puzzle"

synonyms: enigma, mystery, paradox, conundrum, poser, riddle, problem, quandary; informalstumper

"the poem has always been a puzzle"

Edited April 18, 2015 by wolfedg

[panzer1b]

I honestly dont get the whole "anti-procedural" stance but hey its not like mods dont exist.

My biggest reason id love to see at least wings become procedural is saving part count. Hopefully the MK-3 wings will help with part count (and perhaps allow creation of semi-large planes without resorting to 30+ smaller wings).

As for fuel tanks, id love to see a select from multiple sizes but one one part feature. This would cut down parts, cut down on resource loading, and overall improve gameplay while still sticking to squad's lego brick approach. Idealy itd be something with say 3 presets, short, medium, long, and make it coded such that its defined by length in the .craft file, so us modders can actually remove or edit the limits to get full procedural out of a stock part thats also compatible with other players that would use presets.

[Moesly_Armlis]

Utility bays can hold kerbals.

I wonder how many can be krammed in there.

My guess is nine.

[EtherDragon]

My head just asplode... here are some reacts!

Note: My assumptions on any of these statements may be incorrect, but still - here goes:

Hello everyone and here's the Squadcast Summary for this week

Contract system is changed - pre-determined initial contracts will no longer be dependent on the previous one being completed - once you've launched your first vessel, the game will auto-payout (no need to even accept) contracts such as Reach Xm or Escape The Atmosphere as soon as you yourself reach that. Reach space on your first launch? Have all the rewards for the Reach Xm and ETA as well.

This is a really good boost to early career mode. No more taking those silly contracts two at a time - now you can focus on more meaningful ones and get those other milestones along the way!

Thumbnails for saved crafts in the editors are a thing.

Very nice quality of life addition!

Loading times - much improved. Like seriously. If a completely stock 0.90 game will load in 40 seconds or so, 1.0 loads in 12s. DDS and optimisations ftw.

[RobotsAndSpaceships]

-words-

So? It's a game about building rockets and flying them, an example of a puzzle game would be Portal, where you have to solve small problems and situations, not design rockets and explore planets.

[wolfedg]

So? It's a game about building rockets and flying them, an example of a puzzle game would be Portal, where you have to solve small problems and situations, not design rockets and explore planets.

So designing rockets and planning interplanetary travel doesn't qualify as problem solving?

[stibbons]

Nope, but Karbonite will be built on the stock resource framework

I'd assumed that would be happening. Nice to see confirmation.