Are wobbly rockets back?

[Frozen_Heart]

The wobbly rocket problem seemed to be fixed in 0.23.5 and I havn't had any problems since. However in every stream and video of 1.0, even the simplest rockets wobble around like a wet noodle. Has the joint strength been purposefully turned down or something?

[GusTurbo]

Did anyone actually show a proper ascent? Maybe it's just wobbly when you launch like someone who doesn't understand the new aero.

[Xavven]

I haven't heard any mention of tweaking wobbling back in, so my best guess is that this is aerodynamic stress acting more realistically.

[yorshee]

It's the SAS over-autocorrecting, I think.

[SelectHalfling0]

It wobbles because the SAS is having some trouble with the new aero. If you leave SAS off, the wobble goes away (as the atmosphere stabilizes the rocket). You just have to actively adjust the trajectory.

Ninja'd

I you want to see how it works watch thewinterowl's 1.0 preview video: it's very in depth.

[Majorjim!]

It's the SAS over-autocorrecting, I think.

THIS. the SAS has clearly not been properly adjusted for the new aero model.

[Tex_NL]

I'm pretty sure it's because of the new aerodynamics. Every time I saw it happen was during improper launches. Going way too fast and turning 45 degrees at 10km. Instead keep acceleration under 2g up to about 25 km. Go gently on your manouvres and start your turn early.

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THIS. the SAS has clearly not been properly adjusted for the new aero model.

No it isn't. It's people not knowing how to handle the new aerodynamics.

[ShawnPhillips]

When I was watching the stream yesterday on of them turned off the gimble on the engine and the wobble stopped. so it is the SAS overreacting for the engine gimble. The same thing happend to me while trying out the FAR and NEAR mods to get an idea of how the new aero will work.

[SelectHalfling0]

I'm pretty sure it's because of the new aerodynamics. Every time I saw it happen was during improper launches. Going way too fast and turning 45 degrees at 10km. Instead keep acceleration under 2g up to about 25 km. Go gently on your manouvres and start your turn early.

No it isn't. It's people not knowing how to handle the new aerodynamics.

Exactly.

[nholzric]

... Going way too fast...

Weren't the rocket engines were re-balanced too? While "fixing" SAS seems to be in order, it looks like the wobble is happening because suddenly rockets are overpowered in the lower atmosphere. I haven't seen all the preview videos yet but the ones I have seen were in sandbox launching biggish rockets, maybe more economical designs will behave better.

[klgraham1013]

Weren't the rocket engines were re-balanced too? While "fixing" SAS seems to be in order, it looks like the wobble is happening because suddenly rockets are overpowered in the lower atmosphere. I haven't seen all the preview videos yet but the ones I have seen were in sandbox launching biggish rockets, maybe more economical designs will behave better.

It's because we don't have a TWR readout to know the proper engines to use for a specific rocket.

[Volodyuka]

IMHO the problem is not SAS or engine re-balancing, or new aero, or whatever, but in fact an inability to use brains that seems to be caused by over excitement and lack of proper preparations. Most of the host that i saw up to the point just slap some rocket together slam launch and turn thrust to 100% which is in more or less real world are not the brightest things to do with rockets. Because with rocket you should have a certain amount of carefulness and finesse, you shouldn't over-stress construction by going to fast or by doing extreme maneuvers. ALSO there is an oblivious and irritating lack of a thing which is called Kerbal Engineer Mod, how the hell do you supposed to launch rocket not even knowing TWR and dV?

so yeah, it's a problem with hosts and with lack of basic and necessary information about craft (for all I know I do not care how much my rocket weight is or how big it is, but I really need to know her (yes for me it's always 'her') possibilities).

[r_rolo1]

TBH, from what I've seen, I get the impression that it is both people launching overpowered rockets that get a lot of stress when in high speeds and slightly out of prograde ( due to force of habit ) and of the SAS not having the necessary finesse to deal with those situations ( I've seen one streamer to kill the wobble just by locking the rocket engine gimbal, a clear sign of overcorrections by the SAS ). In other words, the SAS we had , that was never the best solution possible ( for some reason there are better SAS mods ), is ill equipped to deal with the rockets we used to build in the new atmo.

[GoSlash27]

IMHO the problem is not SAS or engine re-balancing, or new aero, or whatever, but in fact an inability to use brains that seems to be caused by over excitement and lack of proper preparations. Most of the host that i saw up to the point just slap some rocket together slam launch and turn thrust to 100% which is in more or less real world are not the brightest things to do with rockets. Because with rocket you should have a certain amount of carefulness and finesse, you shouldn't over-stress construction by going to fast or by doing extreme maneuvers. ALSO there is an oblivious and irritating lack of a thing which is called Kerbal Engineer Mod, how the hell do you supposed to launch rocket not even knowing TWR and dV?

so yeah, it's a problem with hosts and with lack of basic and necessary information about craft (for all I know I do not care how much my rocket weight is or how big it is, but I really need to know her (yes for me it's always 'her') possibilities).

A bit of a side-issue, but you don't need KER to know that stuff. I've never needed it and therefore never used it.

I design my rockets to have the desired TWR and DV and optimal efficiency before I ever enter the VAB.

IRT the OP, I think it's the result of improperly managing the stresses rather than the rockets being more noodly. If you fly it properly I'm pretty sure you won't have those issues.

Best,

-Slashy

[Superfluous J]

What you're seeing isn't poor physics, it's poor rocket design and poor ascent trajectories.

Real life rockets would wobble a bit too if they were swung around 90 degrees while traveling mach 3, 10km off the ground.

[Alshain]

I think you are seeing wobbly rockets because none of the Streamers ever used FAR. All the rockets I've seen built in the streams are ridiculously towering behemoths that could easily be made better.

[Hydrazine_Soup]

Yea I stopped watching after like 10 minutes because I got bored of him exploding everytime he attempted to do anything while not showing anything new

[Volodyuka]

A bit of a side-issue, but you don't need KER to know that stuff. I've never needed it and therefore never used it.

I design my rockets to have the desired TWR and DV and optimal efficiency before I ever enter the VAB.

Yeah, you can calculate all of it, but it'll make whole experience a lot more tedious and boring (and i tell you that through experience) and i love my KSP experience to be fluid and reasonably fast, so KER is the most sane option.

[Alshain]

Yea I stopped watching after like 10 minutes because I got bored of him exploding everytime he attempted to do anything while not showing anything new

Yeah, I just now finished watching 15 minutes of the streamer arguing that ailerons should point up when in front of the center of mass. I couldn't take anymore of it so I just close the window.

[Tex_NL]

... I've seen one streamer to kill the wobble just by locking the rocket engine gimbal, a clear sign of overcorrections by the SAS ...

Yes. The wobble is induced by the SAS over-correctting with gimbal. But SAS and gimbal are not the cause and are not to blame. It's like blaming ABS, EPS and other systems for crashing your car while doing 200kph on ice. They are simply not designed to cope with those conditions. If you want the system to fly your rocket for you wait a few days and install MechJeb. If you want to fly your rocket yourself YOU have to fly it. and YOU have to fly it properly.

[Commissioner Tadpole]

Going way too fast and turning 45 degrees at 10km. Instead keep acceleration under 2g up to about 25 km. Go gently on your manouvres and start your turn early.

You just contradicted yourself. You said to start the gravity turn at 25km, and then said to start it as early as possible.

[GoSlash27]

Yeah, you can calculate all of it, but it'll make whole experience a lot more tedious and boring (and i tell you that through experience) and i love my KSP experience to be fluid and reasonably fast, so KER is the most sane option.

Not knocking your choice, just pointing out that it's not necessary and people who don't use it aren't necessarily "oblivious". Speaking from *my* experience, designing the ship on paper using a spreadsheet before I build it isn't tedious at all and it helps me build more efficient designs than your method allows.

So to each his/ her own. *shrug*

Best,

-Slashy

[Fel]

A bit of a side-issue, but you don't need KER to know that stuff. I've never needed it and therefore never used it.

I design my rockets to have the desired TWR and DV and optimal efficiency before I ever enter the VAB.

It really isn't that hard to calculate what KER does; but it is somewhat more time consuming. Of course, without KER, you really should do the calcs by hand.

- - - Updated - - -

You just contradicted yourself. You said to start the gravity turn at 25km, and then said to start it as early as possible.

To "end up" at the point, but you should be slowly turning into it, not just flipping the rocket over.

[GoSlash27]

You just contradicted yourself. You said to start the gravity turn at 25km, and then said to start it as early as possible.

I think you misunderstood

Best,

-Slashy

[Tex_NL]

You just contradicted yourself. You said to start the gravity turn at 25km, and then said to start it as early as possible.

No, you misread me. I said you should keep your acceleration under 2g up to 25km, that you should be gentle on your manoeuvres and start your turn early. I NEVER said anything about delaying your gravity turn until 25km!