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Nay-sayers, unite!

Kerbart

By Kerbart
in KSP1 Discussion

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FleetAdmiralJ

FleetAdmiralJ

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Which is why they should have released it as a 0.95 version. Fix the stuff that needs to be fixed (Manley and Valdez ran into a few after only a couple of hours of play, imagine would thousands of players will do) and THEN release 1.0 as a much more stable version. That's been the whole point of the complaints of going to 1.0 and introducing so many new things without playtesting in the first place.

I don't know about Das, but someone above mentioned that Scott might have run into mod-related bugs, which isn't really Squad's problem per se if he was using mods not actually designed for 1.0 yet. Also, experimentals is meant to be a play test. And let's be honest - KSP has gotten a heck of a lot more playtesting generally than I imagine a lot of AAA games get before release.

Also, there will always be bugs. Fixing bugs is, of course, always nice. But expecting a game devoid of bugs is just plain ridiculous. I mean, I find bugs in GTA V all the time and I'm not in a rage yelling at them that it wasn't ready. I think most people who play games expect some minimal level of bugs. The larger concern is if they are bugs that seriously affect game play or not.

And from a marketing perspective, let's be honest - would we really get this much hype out of a 1.0 release that was little more than a bugfix release? I doubt it.

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magnemoe

magnemoe

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Which is why they should have released it as a 0.95 version. Fix the stuff that needs to be fixed (Manley and Valdez ran into a few after only a couple of hours of play, imagine would thousands of players will do) and THEN release 1.0 as a much more stable version. That's been the whole point of the complaints of going to 1.0 and introducing so many new things without playtesting in the first place.

Yes to minimize the number of bugs this would be the best solution.

However the game has to move from early access to finished at one point, it probably also have to do with pricing and Squads cut.

Now an 0.99 version would be an beta and not early access, how to sell it, the huge update generates lots of hype, reviews and new sales, stupid if the game was not for sale from 0.99 was released to 1.0 came 1-2 weeks from now.

Now for us who have the game this has no effects that so ever.

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Bloody_looser

Bloody_looser

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Being critical and vocal about some issues is a good thing (like Round-8 case).

Being butthurt for sake of butthurt and making accusation of Squad being liars and KSP being a fraud to steal your ten bucks, you've paid two years ago, well ... apply something cold to your damaged private parts, wait for release and then be butthurt :D

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georgTF

georgTF

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FTL Faster Than Light had tons of bugs and something like 10-15 patches came out for it after release, sometimes fixing bugs you could not believe were not spotted before. But it's been an awesome game since 1.0 and the patching did not hurt it's reputation.

KSP has been awesome since alpha. Eventually Suqad would have to bite the bullet and push 1.0 out. That was kinda my whole point, that no matter how hard you try to eliminate bugs, you will allways have some once you reach 1.0 because it will have by far the largest player base so far (though KSP is an anomaly in this case because it already has a large base and a long alpha period), and it's better to get it out of the way rather than go through several incremental bugfix releases. Such releases lack the momentum of a major release and can sometimes delay the problems rather than help.

What was unfortunate about this release was that all excited KSP fans got to watch the bugs on streams but Squad had already put KSP in code-lock. But they're only human, and humans miss bugs in the code. A month from now everybody should have happy memories of finding new ways to crash new parts, and not the release issues.

Squad could have helped themselves by reminding the fanbase that critical or numerous bugs were likely given what a major release this was going to be.

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FleetAdmiralJ

FleetAdmiralJ

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Being critical and vocal about some issues is a good thing (like Round-8 case).

I would add that the above case and the thing with Kerbal experiences were things that the community as a whole largely spoke up about, not just a few nay-sayers that Squad suddenly decided to listen to.

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LN400

LN400

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I will have fun with the release client, and as long as squad is hurrying up fixing the bugs, i'm fine with a buggy client.

But, that being said: this is because i think KSP is one of the very, VERY few gems of the concept of early access. They got some credit in my book, that's why. To argue "when was the last time you got a perfect release".. uhm, what? It's absolutely stupid to argue "well, EA and other cashgrabbers throw crap into the market, so it's fine for others too - that's just how it is". No it's not how it is. It is what it has become, and that is partially because people use that one single silly argument over and over again.

Maybe it's my age, but i certainly remember better times regarding this pest (buggy clients, cashgrabs).

Unfortunately, the complexity of new games compared to say, a game for the Commodore 64 (I had tons of C64 games) means it is not feasible to have an absolute bug free game. The wild variety of hardware we run our games on, the wild variety of software running underneath, the complexity of the code itself, you just can't expect a bug free game. So it is definitely how it is, not a result of giving up but because we humans have limits when it comes to analyzing every single aspect of a game in any of a myriad different software/hardware environments.

Finally, someone who feels like I do. Probably more out there :)

Minding buggy stuff, I still have Daggerfall :D Only lack of time stops me from playing it nowadays.

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gmiddlemass

gmiddlemass

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Unfortunately, the complexity of new games compared to say, a game for the Commodore 64 (I had tons of C64 games) means it is not feasible to have an absolute bug free game.

Exactly... I can even remember when games were so simple that you could type the things in yourself from pages of code printed in magazines... Try doing that with Kerbal!

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Roxette

Roxette

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... I can even remember when games were so simple that you could type the things in yourself from pages of code printed in magazines...

I can remember when games were so simple they involved throwing pieces of animal bone around and catching them.

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katateochi

katateochi

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I am very excited about this update, I think Squad has done a great job based on what I've seen on streams and the new features look great. But that said, I still think calling it 1.0 was a bad move. It's not that I'd expect a "bug free" release, no software is bug free, even the simplest code has bugs; in C (and many other languages) this has a bug;


0.2 + 0.7

So it's not that I'd expect 1.0 to be bug free, that doesn't happen, but there does seem to be quite a number of fairly significant bugs that haven't been picked up by the QA process. Personally I don't mind that this version has bugs, because we've been told that development will continue to add new features and fix further bugs. I just feel that Squad hasn't done themselves justice in the eyes of everyone else (by which I mean new users / those who aren't community regulars). This should have been another beta release given how many major changes it has and the move to 1.0 should be a tiny code change, one line in-fact; simply changing the version number.

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uglyduckling81

uglyduckling81

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I am very excited about this update, I think Squad has done a great job based on what I've seen on streams and the new features look great. But that said, I still think calling it 1.0 was a bad move. It's not that I'd expect a "bug free" release, no software is bug free, even the simplest code has bugs; in C (and many other languages) this has a bug;


0.2 + 0.7

So it's not that I'd expect 1.0 to be bug free, that doesn't happen, but there does seem to be quite a number of fairly significant bugs that haven't been picked up by the QA process. Personally I don't mind that this version has bugs, because we've been told that development will continue to add new features and fix further bugs. I just feel that Squad hasn't done themselves justice in the eyes of everyone else (by which I mean new users / those who aren't community regulars). This should have been another beta release given how many major changes it has and the move to 1.0 should be a tiny code change, one line in-fact; simply changing the version number.

You will probably find sales have stagnated. They need the game to release to bring in fresh revenue. Then they can judge how much money and time they can spend on future updates. If they make $200k just as a random number from fresh sales as a newly finished and released game they will budget some of that for new content.

New Porche - $100k

New House - $100k

New Big Screen TV + Home Theatre - $10k

Amount left over for future development - I hope we sell some more copies.

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FleetAdmiralJ

FleetAdmiralJ

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You will probably find sales have stagnated. They need the game to release to bring in fresh revenue. Then they can judge how much money and time they can spend on future updates. If they make $200k just as a random number from fresh sales as a newly finished and released game they will budget some of that for new content.

New Porche - $100k

New House - $100k

New Big Screen TV + Home Theatre - $10k

Amount left over for future development - I hope we sell some more copies.

Wow, the amount of cynicism here is breathtaking.

Also: How dare they pay themselves for working!

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Woodstar

Woodstar

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Among the things after binge-watching the KSP 1.0 pre-release streams on Twitch:

  • The visual effects look awesome
  • Aero has been revamped completely
  • Resource mining. Ya.

But what also became very clear based on the streams: the game contains a solid amount of bugs and exploits that haven't been killed/discovered in experimentals. Which is not something to blame the experimental testers for; a community of thousands (chatting with the live streamers) can come up with scenarios the testers would never think off.

The decision to go straight from .90 to 1.0 (instead of launching it as .95 first and squashing bugs) seemed bizar and byzantine and the bugs showing up during the live streams are not doing a lot to counter that impression. Congratulations Squad, you're going to release a 1.0 that has a good amount of bugs and that will be followed by a bugfix release. That'll look really good for a game that has been in development for over three years.

I still thing the game was rushed to 1.0 and it doesn't deserve that.

Yea name one game that released "bug free"!

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klgraham1013

klgraham1013

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So, I'm late to the party here. The only thing I'd like to add is this: Do not excuse the failures of one company because another has done no better. The Halo: Complete Collection was horribly bugged. AC: Unity was horribly bugged. Mortal Kombat X on PC was a main menu simulator on launch. As consumers, we can not accept this behavior as the norm. We can not excuse a buggy launch because another has had even more bugs.

Companies would not exist without their costumers. They only survive because they meet the standards we give them. It's your choice where those standards lies.

As far as KSP, 1.0 drops today. Let's wait and see what Squad has done. As an update, it actually looks pretty good. As an official 1.0 release update, have you seen the pool at the KSC? That's the type of polish I want from a 1.0. Of course there will be bugs, but the pool is not a bug. It's a deliberate decision on the part of the developer that having fake water in a pool is OK. It is not OK. It is a lack of polish, I as a costumer, will not accept.

"...but you've already paid!" Such is the risk of early access. I have to bite the bullet on that one.

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crazyewok

crazyewok

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OK. Wow. Who do I have to bribe to get this thread renamed the Hyperbole Train?

- - - Updated - - -

So you only do it around your house? That's comforting.

Way to miss a point

.

My point is if you buy something you have the right to criticize it if not up to the level it was marketed as.

I believe in the old saying "the customer is always right".

As for KSP?

Dunno yet if there is anything to moan about as Version 1.0 is not out yet.

But if its lacking I wont hold back criticism.

A piece of art of hanging in a art gallery is not mine and I don not own it so even if I think it is a POS I wont demand anything from the artist.

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