[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[tsaven]

I have to admit, from looking at all the existing USI parts in terms of habitation and I'm confused as to how they're balanced as well.  I had assumed based on some prior comments from RD that habitation was directly tied to mass, but it seems that isn't the case (or there's many other factors being taken into account that I am not factoring for).  Another big wrinkle is how to factor in parts that offer additional kerbal-months, a multiplier, and a recycler at the same time, or an option to switch between them.  I'm not sure how that's all intended to be balanced together.  And maybe I'm rusty, but I'm also not sure how to factor in "Crew Affected", because the Hab Ring and Tundras say they affect 0 crew.  I thought Habitation Months were simply totaled up for the whole ship, then multiplied by the total of all Hab Multipliers, and then the resulting number was divided among the total crew on board.

For reference, this is my current calculations for parts hab months per ton,  when configured to give additional hab months only and when capable parts have been expanded and filled with their maximum Machinery:

• Habitation Ring - 8.2 (497.5 months for 60.6 tons, needs machinery)
• 2.75m Tundra Expandable Hab - 4.1 (19.8 months for 4.765 tons, needs machinery)
• 4.25m Tundra Expandable Hab - 6.3 (77 months for 12.1 tons, needs machinery)
• 2.5m Kerbitat - 2.6 (20.4 months for 7.6 tons, no machinery)
• 3.5m Kerbitat - 7.2 (69 months for 9.48 tons, no machinery)
• Ranger Hab Module - 7.8 (83.6 months for 10.656 tons)
• Ranger Mini-Hab Module - 6.89 (10 months for 1.45 tons)
• Hitchhiker: 10 (25 months for 2.5 tons)

Am I missing something really obvious here, or are these numbers all over the place?

Edited February 4, 2017 by tsaven
typos

[RoverDude]

You are missing something obvious

Habitation is limited more by volume than by tonnage.  

Also, crew capacity allocates a portion of both tonnage and space, as does resource storage (including separate allocations for battery mass/volume).  It's not nearly as simple as tons times x = hab.

Now couple that with modules that have swappable converters - all with different mass/volume requirements.  In short, there is absolutely a method to all of this (and it involves a really big spreadsheet).

If you feel a specific module is out of balance for whatever reason, the best place to voice that is a GitHub issue (and note what you feel it is unbalanced against). since calculating all of this stuff out is more than a bit time consuming.

 

[tsaven]

9 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

You are missing something obvious

I knew it!    Thank you for pointing that out to me.

Most of my poking at this comes from our (Dstaal, Merkov, dboi88, TheRagingIrishman) attempts to balance the KPBS parts to fit well with USI-LS.  I know your balance guidelines aren't ready yet, but we're trying to get a guess at the recipe from looking at the end result to get kinda-sorta-close and prevent any of Nils77's stuff being too drastically over/under powered.

[RoverDude]

Yeah the worksheet is *almost* done, but I want to do more testing (case in point, EC usage just got massively chopped since not everyone has nuke reactors) before releasing it into the wild.

[Merkov]

1 hour ago, RoverDude said:

Yeah the worksheet is *almost* done, but I want to do more testing (case in point, EC usage just got massively chopped since not everyone has nuke reactors) before releasing it into the wild.

No... nuke... reactors...?

[tsaven]

2 minutes ago, Merkov said:

No... nuke... reactors...?

I think he means that not everyone who uses USI-LS is also using MKS, and therefor they may not have reactors in their game.  Without nukes from either MKS or NFE, it could be damn near impossible to run most parts with just the stock solar panels and RTGs.

[Merkov]

6 minutes ago, tsaven said:

I think he means that not everyone who uses USI-LS is also using MKS, and therefor they may not have reactors in their game.  Without nukes from either MKS or NFE, it could be damn near impossible to run most parts with just the stock solar panels and RTGs.

I understand that, but... I can't even imagine KSP without reactors...

[RoverDude]

New release is up!

0.5.21 - 2017.02.04
------------------
Some UI updates and a fix to the recycler catchup bug (thanks Gnurfos!)
Fixed a bug causing some Kerbals to be permanently stuck as tourists
Fixed the issue where an EVA would reset your home timer (boo!)
Some changes regarding habitation overrides:
- Any vessel with a habitation value of over 50 years will disregard Hab/Home penalties regardless of the voyage length.
- For better balance, Scouts/Pilots must be in a vessel with at least one year of habitation to enable their bonus.
- With an MKS Colonization bonus of 500%, crew in LANDED vessels with a habitation time of one year will be exempt from habitation penalties.
- Both of these values may be customized (the above are defaults) via the GUI available at the space center.

[Sarxis]

Having an issue where the food expiration notification isn't working quite right.  Have set a custom starve time (4 kerbal days, 86400 seconds), It will go to the red 'expire' notification in the window after 2 days, but my Kerbal is fine.  If I go on EVA and re-enter the vehicle, it resets the timer (3d, 05h), but my Kerbal WILL actually go into 'tourist' mode at the appropriate time.

 

Just noticed this after I updated to the new release.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Sarxis

[tsaven]

I'm not sure if this is a bug, or if I don't understand something and am not using the parts properly.  My Nom-O-Matic doesn't seem to be producing at the rate that it should.

According to the stats in the VAB, the Nom-o-matic 2500-I should be able to take in 4.32 Mulch/hr, or 25.92 mulch/day.  However, even though I have recyclers reducing vessel consumption to just 18.8/day, the Nom-O-Matic doesn't seem to be able to do the job and the Mulch slowly fills up.

Any clue what's going on?  Unfortunately it's a pretty heavily modded game, not easy to provide a save. :\

*Edit* Still have the same problem with the new version.

Edited February 5, 2017 by tsaven

[jd284]

There may be some other mod changing the conversion rates, perhaps. That's really the only idea I have, most other obvious hypotheses are not supported by the data you presented.

Are you using Kerbalism maybe? Or any other mod that messes with stock converters?

Perhaps a list of your mods would be helpful.

[tsaven]

6 minutes ago, jd284 said:

There may be some other mod changing the conversion rates, perhaps. That's really the only idea I have, most other obvious hypotheses are not supported by the data you presented.

Are you using Kerbalism maybe? Or any other mod that messes with stock converters?

Perhaps a list of your mods would be helpful.

It's a pretty long list, unfortunately.  But no, I'm not using Kerbalism.  Is there any kind of debug options that can show the actual factors acting on a single converter, or is the only option removing mods one by one to see what happens?

Mod list:

Spoiler

Aviation Lights (AviationLights v.3.12)
B9 Part Switch (B9PartSwitch v1.7.0)
BetterBurnTime (BetterBurnTime 1.5.3)
Chatterer (Chatterer 0.9.92)
Community Category Kit (CommunityCategoryKit 1.2.2.0)
Community Resource Pack (CommunityResourcePack 0.6.6.0)
Community Terrain Texture Pack (CommunityTerrainTexturePack 2.1)
Contract Configurator (ContractConfigurator 1.22.2)
Contract Parser (ContractParser 5.0)
Contracts Window + (ContractsWindowPlus 7.3)
Custom Barn Kit (CustomBarnKit 1.1.10.0)
DMagic Orbital Science (DMagicOrbitalScience 1.3.8)
Environmental Visual Enhancements (EnvironmentalVisualEnhancements 2:EVE-1.2-2)
Extraplanetary Launchpads (ExtraPlanetaryLaunchpads 5.6.0.0)
Final Frontier (FinalFrontier 1.2.7-3080)
Firespitter Core (FirespitterCore v7.5.1)
Kerbal Alarm Clock (KerbalAlarmClock v3.8.4.0)
Kerbal Attachment System (KAS 0.6.2.0)
Kerbal Inventory System (KIS 1.4.2)
Kerbal Planetary Base Systems (KerbalPlanetaryBaseSystems v1.4.0)
Konstruction (Konstruction 0.1.11.0)
Kopernicus Planetary System Modifier (Kopernicus 2:release-1.2.2-3)
Maneuver Node Evolved (ManeuverNodeEvolved 2.3)
ModularFlightIntegrator (ModularFlightIntegrator 1.2.3.0)
Module Manager (ModuleManager 2.7.5)
Near Future Construction (NearFutureConstruction 0.7.3)
Near Future Electrical (NearFutureElectrical 0.8.3)
Near Future Electrical Core (NearFutureElectrical-Core 0.8.3)
Near Future Propulsion (NearFuturePropulsion 0.8.3)
Outer Planets Mod (OuterPlanetsMod 1:2.1)
PlanetShine (PlanetShine 0.2.5.2)
PlanetShine - Default configuration (PlanetShine-Config-Default 0.2.5.2)
Progress Parser (ProgressParser 6.0)
Real Plume (RealPlume 2:v10.5.1)
Real Plume - Stock Configs (RealPlume-StockConfigs v0.11.3)
Routine Mission Manager (RoutineMissionManager 023)
SCANsat (SCANsat v16.11)
scatterer (Scatterer 2:v0.0300)
SmokeScreen - Extended FX Plugin (SmokeScreen 2.7.1.0)
SpaceY Expanded (SpaceY-Expanded 1.3.1)
SpaceY Heavy Lifters (SpaceY-Lifters 1.16)
Stock Visual Enhancements: Scatterer Configs (SVE-Scatterer-Config 2:1.1.6)
Stock Visual Enhancements: Sunflare (SVE-Sunflare 2:1.1.6)
Stock Visual Enhancements-High Res (SVE-HighResolution 2:1.1.6)
Stock Visual Terrain-High Res (SVT-HighResolution 2.0)
TextureReplacer (TextureReplacer v2.5.4)
Transfer Window Planner (TransferWindowPlanner v1.6.1.0)
TriggerAu Flags (TriggerAu-Flags v2.9.1.0)
TweakScale - Rescale Everything! (TweakScale v2.3.4)
Universal Storage (UniversalStorage 1.2.2.0)
USI Core (USI-Core 0.3.8.0)
USI Freight Transport Technologies (USI-FTT 0.6.7.0)
USI Kolonization Systems (MKS/OKS) (UKS 1:0.50.15.0)
USI Life Support (USI-LS 0.5.21.0)
USI Tools (USITools 0.8.13.0)
Waypoint Manager (WaypointManager 2.6.2)

 

[TauPhraim]

3 hours ago, tsaven said:

Any clue what's going on?  Unfortunetly it's a pretty heavily modded game, not easy to provide a save. :\

It's worth retrying with the latest version, as that includes some fixes who might be related.

[jd284]

1 hour ago, tsaven said:

It's a pretty long list, unfortunately.  But no, I'm not using Kerbalism.  Is there any kind of debug options that can show the actual factors acting on a single converter, or is the only option removing mods one by one to see what happens?

Mod list:

I don't see any mods which could interfere with converters.

Maybe you can check the MM cache (GameData/ModuleManager.ConfigCache), open that in a text editor and search for USILS_Greenhouse_Inline, then for ConverterName = Agroponics below, and then the Ratio for Mulch. It should be "Ratio = 0.00120000", which is 4.32/hr.

If it has the right value, I'm at a loss. Then something must be producing excess Mulch on your base...

You could try taking some of your kerbals on EVA at least 150 m away from the base. Then check how many need to be gone to fix the mulch generation...

Not sure what that would prove, but it might give some clues.

[WuphonsReach]

Yeah, checking either the MM cache or the KSP.log is the best way to uncover interactions where a mod modifies a part.  The MM cache will tell you the final result, while the KSP.log can be used to figure out which mods (or config files) are modifying the part.

[Pinchy]

Thanks for fixing the tourist stuck bug @RoverDude- I assume its not retrospective and I will still need to edit the persistence file to change the status of my stuck dudes?

[Little Hyena]

RoverDude;Great job your doing Great.

Im using this mod along with MKS and its going Great Thanks for this along with MKS

Edited February 5, 2017 by Little Hyena
to add some Minor Tweaks

[Tyko]

SOLVED, but odd - I deleted and reloaded USI-LS and info still didn't show up. I had to load each ship to get that ship's info to fill in. Once I'd loaded the ship, it showed up in the Life Support Status window even when focused on another ship (like it should)

Help please...my Life Support Status screen is blank now in the Tracking Station or when a ship is active. The only time I see any info in that window is in the VAB where it still shows me projected LS info. It was working until I updated USILS at the beginning of the weekend. I've tried reverting to 0.5.20, but that didn't restore the screen

Any advice on what else to check?

Edited February 6, 2017 by Tyko

[TauPhraim]

26 minutes ago, Tyko said:

Once I'd loaded the ship, it showed up in the Life Support Status window

A vessel has to be "tracked" by USI-LS in order to show up. If you launched these ships before installing USI-LS, it won't know about them until you focus them once. Or maybe you somehow lost the tracking information in your save file at some point.

[Tyko]

8 hours ago, TauPhraim said:

A vessel has to be "tracked" by USI-LS in order to show up. If you launched these ships before installing USI-LS, it won't know about them until you focus them once. Or maybe you somehow lost the tracking information in your save file at some point.

Thanks, I'd been using USI-LS before. Something must have broken when upgrading past 0.5.20

[Tyko]

Is a pilot's immunity to hab/home timers hard coded or can it be changed via cfg?

Thanks

[Benno]

Quote

On 05/02/2017 at 11:32 PM, Pinchy said:

Thanks for fixing the tourist stuck bug @RoverDude- I assume its not retrospective and I will still need to edit the persistence file to change the status of my stuck dudes?

 

 

I'm in a a similar boat with Bill and Bob off on, ah, indefinite leave...

 

Did you have any luck editing the persistence file? I found 3 instances of 'trait= Tourist for each dude, but simply changing it gave me a 'can't find resource Scientist' type of error when I tried to load.

 

Thanks

[cyberKerb]

Changing just 'trait' isn't enough to fix it. So long as you remember their profession before they were set to permanently tourist - change these three things in your saves persistent.sfs file:

Under the LIFE_SUPPORT_SETTINGS module - find your Kerb and set this value to their profession(Pilot, Scientist, Engineer,  etc...)

Example:
OldTrait = Pilot

Under the ROSTER module - find the same kerbal, change 'type' to Crew and 'trait' to the same profession as you set above

Example:
type = Crew
trait = Pilot

Once you save the changes and reload it should be fine for that Kerbal

Edited February 7, 2017 by wile1411

[RoverDude]

9 hours ago, Tyko said:

Is a pilot's immunity to hab/home timers hard coded or can it be changed via cfg?

Thanks

In the current patch, the minimum habitation to get that immunity has changed, both for pilots and for all other crew.  So you could just crank these up to an insanely high number if you want to disable it ever kicking in.

[gamerscircle]

I don't suppose I could ask for Habitation examples that peeps are using? For Bases, long voyages, etc?  Thank you ..