[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[goldenpsp]

1 hour ago, sh1pman said:

Do you know how much time does a round trip to Plock from OPM take? It's 100 years. Same with GPP outer planets. If you're playing with a non-stock planet pack and want to properly explore it, your save is pretty much guaranteed to exceed 50 years.

Excellent.  You just answered the same non-question the other two did above.

[sh1pman]

Just now, goldenpsp said:

Excellent.  You just answered the same non-question the other two did above.

I answered your question. This one:

17 hours ago, goldenpsp said:

Just out of curiosity, how many people generally manage to play saves spanning 50+ years?

The answer is everyone who's playing with large planet packs. Or did you want a specific number? How are we supposed to get it? My modded saves with OPM or GPP tend to exceed 50 years.

[goldenpsp]

Just now, sh1pman said:

I answered your question. This one:

The answer is everyone who's playing with large planet packs. Or did you want a specific number? How are we supposed to get it? My modded saves with OPM or GPP tend to exceed 50 years.

Probably if you read my reply just above I explained myself to the other two. 

Yes it is somewhat rhetorical, but if I had to make a wild guess I would say that the number of people who use OPM and GPP, AND have games lasting more than 50 years AND use USI-LS AND want their kerbals to die is pretty low.

The main point is while it is an interesting idea, it would likely be somewhat of a niche feature, so don't get upset if @RoverDude says no, not interested in adding Kerbal old age to the mod.

 

[sh1pman]

Just now, goldenpsp said:

Probably if you read my reply just above I explained myself to the other two. 

Yes it is somewhat rhetorical, but if I had to make a wild guess I would say that the number of people who use OPM and GPP, AND have games lasting more than 50 years AND use USI-LS AND want their kerbals to die is pretty low.

The main point is while it is an interesting idea, it would likely be somewhat of a niche feature, so don't get upset if @RoverDude says no, not interested in adding Kerbal old age to the mod.

 

Well, if you don't want people to answer your questions, maybe you should specify that they are rhetorical, or something like that.

I'd like to see that feature implemented, but off by default. And with tweakable average kerbal lifespan.

3 minutes ago, goldenpsp said:

Yes it is somewhat rhetorical, but if I had to make a wild guess I would say that the number of people who use OPM and GPP, AND have games lasting more than 50 years AND use USI-LS AND want their kerbals to die is pretty low.

You only asked about the number of people with 50+ years saves. How many of them use USI-LS and want the death mechanic, is another question entirely, and I was only answering the first one.

[RoverDude]

Hopping in...  

I did have that 2,000 year save once... but I think that was an aberration

 

Whether this gets added or not depends either on a pull request (or more likely someone wanting to join the USI team to do this, as it is a bit involved), or it becoming something that makes sense in the context of other things I am doing in the constellation.

[tsaven]

I would personally vote for no age limit, as I'm one of those (rare?) players who uses USI-LS as well as the OPM planet pack which has 100+ year journey times.  On the balance of fun vs annoying, I feel an age limit to the kerbals is more annoying than anything.  There's enough gameplay challenges introduced by keeping them alive for such extended periods of time.

Another question, I had mentioned it in the MKS thread but I think it makes more sense in this one:

Balance guide?  A year or so ago I know there had been talk of publishing balance guides for making other mods compatible with USI-LS.  Did this ever get released?

Edited October 22, 2017 by tsaven

[danielboro]

i have OPM +MKS+USI-LS
and i have a ship going to urlom, still 18y until it gets ther, i spent ~ a week just planning and testing the ship
an age limit will quadruple the difficulty of getting very far (im thinking of adding GPP as an extra system next to stock)
but it dos connect nice whit the multiplication of kerbals (from MKS?)
so i think an age limit can connect nicely to that fiture

multiplaing +dieing kerbals = generation ships
thats more of an MKS thing (OKS ?)

[RoverDude]

It's kinda an overlap, but the mechanic would be in life support.

Also, if I were to (hypothetically) add in aging/death, it would be an optional setting and turned off by default.

[Kerbal7]

Hi friends.

A quick question. If I have a Kerbal out of life support, and on strike in a capsule with no docking port, that Kerbal is effectively dead yes? It is impossible to rescue them yes? 

Thanks.

[RoverDude]

Just now, Kerbal7 said:

Hi friends.

A quick question. If I have a Kerbal out of life support, and on strike in a capsule with no docking port, that Kerbal is effectively dead yes? It is impossible to rescue them yes? 

Thanks.

use a claw.

[Kerbal7]

Just now, RoverDude said:

use a claw.

Ah, Okay.

Good idea.

Thanks.

 

[tsaven]

If I'm reading this correctly, .0.5.24 is the version I should be running if I'm still using KSP 1.2.2, correct?  Haven't upgraded yet due to a bunch of other mods still not being up to date...

[RoverDude]

Not sure tbh, best bet is to look at the .version file in GitHub and that will tell you what version of KSP it was compiled for.

[SpacedInvader]

Can someone please explain what "PermaHabTime" and "ScoutHabTime" in the settings file refer to? There appears to be no explanation at all that I can find...

[Aelfhe1m]

1 hour ago, SpacedInvader said:

Can someone please explain what "PermaHabTime" and "ScoutHabTime" in the settings file refer to? There appears to be no explanation at all that I can find...

Above a certain threshold (the PermaHabTime) a vessel/base/station's habitation time becomes "indefinite".

Scouts and Pilots have a trait (ExplorerSkill) that allows them to reach this "indefinite" habitation time more quickly (the ScoutHabTime).

Edited October 28, 2017 by Aelfhe1m

[SpacedInvader]

2 hours ago, Aelfhe1m said:

Above a certain threshold (the PermaHabTime) a vessel/base/station's habitation time becomes "indefinite".

Scouts and Pilots have a trait (ExplorerSkill) that allows them to reach this "indefinite" habitation time more quickly (the ScoutHabTime).

So if I'm reading this correctly, using the default settings, if I keep a kerbal in a hab for 50 years, they no longer get homesick?

[tsaven]

2 hours ago, SpacedInvader said:

So if I'm reading this correctly, using the default settings, if I keep a kerbal in a hab for 50 years, they no longer get homesick?

It's not if you keep them in a hab for 50 years, but if you put them in a hab that has 50 years of hab time.

[SpacedInvader]

19 minutes ago, tsaven said:

It's not if you keep them in a hab for 50 years, but if you put them in a hab that has 50 years of hab time.

So basically the stat is pointless? Best I can tell, you can't get that?

[tsaven]

1 hour ago, SpacedInvader said:

So basically the stat is pointless? Best I can tell, you can't get that?

You can get 50 years of hab time, but it requires building an extremely large ship.  In reality, this function is meant for landed outposts and bases where you expect to have Kerbals permanently living and can land and connect multiple sections together.

You'd probably not be able to build a practical ship large enough to give 50 years of hab time and still have the ship be able to do anything useful.

[SpacedInvader]

5 minutes ago, tsaven said:

You can get 50 years of hab time, but it requires building an extremely large ship.  In reality, this function is meant for landed outposts and bases where you expect to have Kerbals permanently living and can land and connect multiple sections together.

You'd probably not be able to build a practical ship large enough to give 50 years of hab time and still have the ship be able to do anything useful.

Clearly I'm missing something here... if each seat can only support a single kerbal for 0.25 months, even one year would take 48 seats for just one kerbal (assuming 12 months, no clue how many months are actually counted per year though), meaning it would take 2400 empty seats for one kerbal to receive the bonus. A ship with that much space would probably grind even the most powerful computers to a halt.

Edited October 28, 2017 by SpacedInvader

[tsaven]

12 minutes ago, SpacedInvader said:

Clearly I'm missing something here... if each seat can only support a single kerbal for 0.25 months, even one year would take 48 seats for just one kerbal (assuming 12 months, no clue how many months are actually counted per year though), meaning it would take 2400 empty seats for one kerbal to receive the bonus. A ship with that much space would probably grind even the most powerful computers to a halt.

I think each seat gives a Kerbal 1 month, but I could be wrong.

Either way, there's various parts that give multipliers to hab time.  And many parts can be configured to either give additional hab time, or multiply the existing hab time of the ship.  Remember that these multipliers are additive, so just by spamming on a bunch of Cupolas and 2.5m cans you can get to 50 years pretty easily if you keep the crew size small.

This is my current long-term ship, and if I only have 6 crew on board it has 41 years of hab time:

If I reduced the crew a little more, or spammed on a couple more cupolas I could get to 50 years without too many problems.  But I'd run out of supplies and fuel for the reactors LONG before that.

[SpacedInvader]

24 minutes ago, tsaven said:

I think each seat gives a Kerbal 1 month, but I could be wrong.

Either way, there's various parts that give multipliers to hab time.  And many parts can be configured to either give additional hab time, or multiply the existing hab time of the ship.  Remember that these multipliers are additive, so just by spamming on a bunch of Cupolas and 2.5m cans you can get to 50 years pretty easily if you keep the crew size small.

This is my current long-term ship, and if I only have 6 crew on board it has 41 years of hab time:

If I reduced the crew a little more, or spammed on a couple more cupolas I could get to 50 years without too many problems.  But I'd run out of supplies and fuel for the reactors LONG before that.

Interesting... is all this documented somewhere? I've had a look at the OKS / MKS wiki, but it doesn't really talk much about the life support mod beyond what goes into a closed loop system, though I could have easily missed it. Also, what mods are you using for the elbow joints on that ship?

 

EDIT: NM, found habitation documentation in the wiki, just never thought to look somewhere other than the "Life Support" section.

Edited October 28, 2017 by SpacedInvader

[Dragonking]

I`ve got an idea for this mod:You could make every module that has a habitation time increase also have an increase for a new variable:Habitation(yeah,that already exists,but I mean it as second one)not every module that can store crew has habitation(no cockpits or crew cabins have that variable because they are no real living space but everything that could display a(relatively)nice living space has that variable)for example a 3.75 inflatable habitation module from MKS could have 7.5 Habitation.Every Kerbal needs 1 habitation,than he has unlimited of the normal habitation(because the living space is about as good as the living space at home)let´s say a vehicle has 30 Kerbals on board,but only 20 habitation,then the kerbals which are higher on the crew list in the VAB/SPH get the habitation.

1 hour ago, tsaven said:

I think each seat gives a Kerbal 1 month, but I could be wrong.

Either way, there's various parts that give multipliers to hab time.  And many parts can be configured to either give additional hab time, or multiply the existing hab time of the ship.  Remember that these multipliers are additive, so just by spamming on a bunch of Cupolas and 2.5m cans you can get to 50 years pretty easily if you keep the crew size small.

This is my current long-term ship, and if I only have 6 crew on board it has 41 years of hab time:

If I reduced the crew a little more, or spammed on a couple more cupolas I could get to 50 years without too many problems.  But I'd run out of supplies and fuel for the reactors LONG before that.

the reactors wouldn´t run out of fuel.I tested this with a little 0.65 meter USI reactor which had a power output of 30 EC/second and it took about 3 years to consume 0.01 enriched uranium of 3.00 that was stored in the reactor and I think all reactors have the same enriched uranium/enriched uranium consumption/power output/enriched uranium storage ratio.

these are originally two seperate posts but the website merged them

Edited October 28, 2017 by Dragonking
unwanted post merging

[RoverDude]

4 hours ago, SpacedInvader said:

Clearly I'm missing something here... if each seat can only support a single kerbal for 0.25 months, even one year would take 48 seats for just one kerbal (assuming 12 months, no clue how many months are actually counted per year though), meaning it would take 2400 empty seats for one kerbal to receive the bonus. A ship with that much space would probably grind even the most powerful computers to a halt.

Yeah, you were missing something 

Even with just USI-LS, you have the Cupola and the Hitchhiker that act as Hab Extenders/multipliers.  Getting 50 year ark ships and bases is not really hard to be honest.  But they are going to be a size that's not practical for, say, a run to Duna and back (nor would that makes sense.  On the one hand, it would trivialize the stat, and on the other, there would be no practical need when a couple of years is fine).

@Dragonking - sorry, but your idea is pretty much an overlap with the mechanics that already exist.

Edited October 28, 2017 by RoverDude
Ping the right user :)

[SpacedInvader]

2 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Yeah, you were missing something 

Even with just USI-LS, you have the Cupola and the Hitchhiker that act as Hab Extenders/multipliers.  Getting 50 year ark ships and bases is not really hard to be honest.  But they are going to be a size that's not practical for, say, a run to Duna and back (nor would that makes sense.  On the one hand, it would trivialize the stat, and on the other, there would be no practical need when a couple of years is fine).

Also, sorry, but your idea is pretty much an overlap with the mechanics that already exist.

The idea was @Dragonking's, but I get what you're saying. As for habitation, I found the related information on the MKS wiki and have a decent idea now how it works, though I still feel like a little trial and error is in my future as I figure out how to manage home vs. hab times. TBH, I've had MKS / OKS installed in my saves since you released it, but something has always come up to interrupt my play before I got to that point in my careers (e.g. Squad releasing a new version and then it taking several months for the 200+ mods I use to get updated to the new version, meanwhile I've gone on to another game for a while), so I've never actually plopped a base down anywhere... I'm hoping I manage it this time.