[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[RoverDude]

We can agree to disagree then.

Using the stock tech tree or CTT, I have been comfortable in my own save with how it plays out.  I respect that foiks may have differing opinions, but at the end of the day, I do these mods for the enjoyment of my own career save, and balance accordingly.  

With that, we have officially not only beat this dead horse into pulp, but it has long since gone to horsey heaven, transformed into glue sticks, and said glue sticks long since eaten by kindergartners,

[MalevolentNinja]

Fine I'll shut up

^{geez people get touchy around here even discussing differences of opinion}

[RoverDude]

With all due respect, I only see one person getting unnecessarily touchy.

[nascarlaser1]

22 hours ago, Jivaii said:

That's a misunderstanding. The recycler reduces how much supplies a kerbal would need, while agroponics takes fertilizer and mulch, to turn into supplies. The agroponics items would be ones listed. Recyclers are the RT-500 recycling module (reduces need for a single kerbal) and the RT-5000 recycling module (reduces need for up to three kerbals).

 

Here's some good reading for knowledge

so I want the agroponics from USI LS? or the recycler? I would like to grow food, but the one from PBS requires too many parts for my already big space station. I need at most 2 parts, preferably 1.

[tsaven]

7 minutes ago, nascarlaser1 said:

so I want the agroponics from USI LS? or the recycler? I would like to grow food, but the one from PBS requires too many parts for my already big space station. I need at most 2 parts, preferably 1.

Realistically you'll need both.  You can TRY to use just the Agroponics, but you'll need multiples of them and will go through a LOT of Fertilizer if you don't have a recycling module to help reduce demand.

[nascarlaser1]

Just now, tsaven said:

Realistically you'll need both.  You can TRY to use just the Agroponics, but you'll need multiples of them and will go through a LOT of Fertilizer if you don't have a recycling module to help reduce demand.

ok. I already have a bunch of recyclers, but I needed a way of growing more food  too. Thanks! 1 final Q. Without using MKS or any mod except for PBS and USI LS, can I make fertilizer on site? or do I need MKS to do it? (I'm fine with getting MKS if needed)

[tsaven]

5 minutes ago, nascarlaser1 said:

ok. I already have a bunch of recyclers, but I needed a way of growing more food  too. Thanks! 1 final Q. Without using MKS or any mod except for PBS and USI LS, can I make fertilizer on site? or do I need MKS to do it? (I'm fine with getting MKS if needed)

I THINK you can use the small ISRU to make Fertilizer from Ore?  Someone else will need to confirm that, as I use both USI-LS and MKS and I can't remember which mod that is a function of.  For an orbital station, you'll still need to ship fertilizer in, this is intentional and by design.  A landed system somewhere with a good ore concentration can be self-sustaining.

If you choose to install MKS (Which I HIGHLY recommend, it's an amazing mod although it's very complex), it introduces a few other resources that fertilizer can be made from, and specific parts to do it.

Edited January 4, 2017 by tsaven
typo

[nascarlaser1]

3 minutes ago, tsaven said:

I THINK you can use the small ISRU to make Fertilizer from Ore?  Someone else will need to confirm that, as I use both USI-LS and MKS and I can't remember which mod that is a function of.  For an orbital station, you'll still need to ship fertilizer in, this is intentional and by design.  A landed system somewhere with a good ore concentration can be self-sustaining.

If you choose to install MKS (Which I HIGHLY recommend, it's an amazing mod although it's very complex), it introduces a few other resources that fertilizer can be made from, and specific parts to do it.

can I use MKS light to make my station fully self enclosed? or must I use MKS full? (I am new to docking/rendezvous, so my "station" is 1 big piece right now till I learn mechjeb. I also use OSE workshop and EPL if it matters, and Hangars will be used once I figure out how to use Mechjeb for docking.

[tsaven]

1 minute ago, nascarlaser1 said:

can I use MKS light to make my station fully self enclosed? or must I use MKS full? (I am new to docking/rendezvous, so my "station" is 1 big piece right now till I learn mechjeb. I also use OSE workshop and EPL if it matters, and Hangars will be used once I figure out how to use Mechjeb for docking.

No, an orbital station can never be 100% self sustaining.  This is intentional and by design.  With USI-LS you will always need to ship in Fertilizer.  If you add MKS, you'll also need to ship in either Machinery or MaterialKits (although these can be manufactured on other planets, but requires quite complex bases)

As an aside, MKS-Lite isn't really a thing right now.  I know RD has plans to bring it back in some form, but currently MKS Full is the only option.  MKS is a very complex, but also amazing mod that is very focused on manufacturing and permanent colonies, but it takes a LOT of work to make that happen.  It's not a mod where you can just plop down a couple modules and call it a base. 

12 minutes ago, nascarlaser1 said:

can I use MKS light to make my station fully self enclosed? or must I use MKS full? (I am new to docking/rendezvous, so my "station" is 1 big piece right now till I learn mechjeb. I also use OSE workshop and EPL if it matters, and Hangars will be used once I figure out how to use Mechjeb for docking.

One more thing.  If you're using EpL (I think the mod author calls it EL, and he hates it when people call it EPL) and install MKS, MKS changes the resource requirements for building stuff.  Instead of needing RocketParts, you need MaterialKits and SpecializedParts, both of which can be manufactured on-side with the other MKS modules (Again though, it takes a TON of work!)

[Terwin]

19 minutes ago, tsaven said:

No, an orbital station can never be 100% self sustaining.  This is intentional and by design.  With USI-LS you will always need to ship in Fertilizer.  If you add MKS, you'll also need to ship in either Machinery or MaterialKits (although these can be manufactured on other planets, but requires quite complex bases)

As an aside, MKS-Lite isn't really a thing right now.  I know RD has plans to bring it back in some form, but currently MKS Full is the only option.  MKS is a very complex, but also amazing mod that is very focused on manufacturing and permanent colonies, but it takes a LOT of work to make that happen.  It's not a mod where you can just plop down a couple modules and call it a base. 

One more thing.  If you're using EpL (I think the mod author calls it EL, and he hates it when people call it EPL) and install MKS, MKS changes the resource requirements for building stuff.  Instead of needing RocketParts, you need MaterialKits and SpecializedParts, both of which can be manufactured on-side with the other MKS modules (Again though, it takes a TON of work!)

I think you can actually make material kits with just 5 parts(3 of them are inflatable, and one is a surface attachable drill):

1 mid-sized drill(set to Metal ore/Substrate/Minerals), one Tundra Industrial Refinery(3.75M set to refine Metals/Polymers/Chemicals), and one Ranger inflatable workshop.  After that you just need a place to put the raw and refined materials(one inflatable storage unit for raw and one for refined).  The workshop can hold the kits, so that is all you need.

Add some solar panels and a radiator for the drill and you can make material kits.

More drills/high level engineer combined with more refineries will speed things up, but are not needed.

Note: you will slowly chew through your machinery so will occasionally need re-supply unless you make it yourself(I think you only need 5 MKS parts other than storage, but 3 of them would be Tundra 3.5M parts[two refineries and an assembly plant], the other two are drills).

 

 

[MalevolentNinja]

2 hours ago, RoverDude said:

With all due respect, I only see one person getting unnecessarily touchy.

Wha? Where exactly in anything I wrote did I give you that impression? I was just chatting about how I felt about this setting and both you and GoldenPSP basically tried to shut down the conversation.

 

Edit: yeah, i just re-read (very carefully) everything I posted and I'm stumped... I know written communication is easy to misconstrue but  nothing I said was aggressive. Not even passive-aggressive Please let me know if you disagree, I'm always up for improving my communication skills!

 

Edited January 4, 2017 by MalevolentNinja

[tsaven]

34 minutes ago, Terwin said:

I think you can actually make material kits with just 5 parts(3 of them are inflatable, and one is a surface attachable drill):

You CAN but it's tragically slow when you consider the amount of MKs and SPs that most rocket constructions need with EL.  To have any functional base that can launch more than tiny satellites once a year, you have to scale production WAY up, to an almost ridiculous level (21+ refineries, feeding 4+ assembly plants).

And you also need SpecParts, which have their own production chain requirements.  And then Machinery to keep it all humming.  RD has stated that the upcoming patch will re-balance Refineries, to crank their output levels up, partially due to people using EL (I think).

Also, this is probably the wrong thread to have this discussion. 

[Merkov]

2 hours ago, tsaven said:

I THINK you can use the small ISRU to make Fertilizer from Ore?  Someone else will need to confirm that, as I use both USI-LS and MKS and I can't remember which mod that is a function of.  For an orbital station, you'll still need to ship fertilizer in, this is intentional and by design.  A landed system somewhere with a good ore concentration can be self-sustaining.

I will confirm this. USI-LS has a config file that modifies a few stock parts. One of these modifications allows the small 1.25 m ISRU to create fertilizer from Ore. Note that this is a really slow, inefficient process, but if you have enough recyclers, you should be able to get your consumption down low enough that you are producing more fertilizer than you are using. It also helps that very little fertilizer is used in making supplies; most of it is mulch. 

[cantab]

My usual config is that I redo the "Veterans" list to be all pilots and no other classes, and then I make them have no hab/home penalty. (And I have out-of-supplies or Ec lethal for everyone). The pilot isn't going to get the whole crew killed just because he's moaning about the size of his pod. But the scientists and engineers are less critical to the safety of their fellows and thus will quite reasonably refuse to do those silly jobs mission control asks.

[GiveMeABreak]

Pretty sure you can reset hab timer with a simple EVA. I find USI-LS to be quite forgiving, even in the early game. You just have to be more creative. 

[dboi88]

Just now, GiveMeABreak said:

Pretty sure you can reset hab timer with a simple EVA. I find USI-LS to be quite forgiving, even in the early game. You just have to be more creative. 

I believe it's EVA and board another craft. I.e. go for a spin in a rover. 

[Sol Invictus]

Is it possible to rename all instances of "mulch" into "waste" in USI-LS? Using some simple Module Manager script for instance. I know it's a silly thing, but it would ease the transition from TAC-LS to USI-LS for me.

[ExplorerKlatt]

16 minutes ago, Sol Invictus said:

Is it possible to rename all instances of "mulch" into "waste" in USI-LS? Using some simple Module Manager script for instance. I know it's a silly thing, but it would ease the transition from TAC-LS to USI-LS for me.

Pretty sure this isn't possible without editing the source code and recompiling. 

[GiveMeABreak]

2 hours ago, dboi88 said:

I believe it's EVA and board another craft. I.e. go for a spin in a rover. 

Perhaps that was the intent, but it's not necessary. See below - difference is just hopping out and hopping back in

[goldenpsp]

23 hours ago, MalevolentNinja said:

Wha? Where exactly in anything I wrote did I give you that impression? I was just chatting about how I felt about this setting and both you and GoldenPSP basically tried to shut down the conversation.

 

Edit: yeah, i just re-read (very carefully) everything I posted and I'm stumped... I know written communication is easy to misconstrue but  nothing I said was aggressive. Not even passive-aggressive Please let me know if you disagree, I'm always up for improving my communication skills!

 

Ah see, I had decided to let all of this go, as I didn't want to continue to contribute to the derailment of this thread.

Here's the thing, at least in my opinion.  This is the Release thread for USI-LS.  Many (including me) try to keep up on this thread to stay on top of upcoming releases, basic feedback and questions.  You gave feedback.  That feedback was noted.  Good.

Then it started becoming a more protracted discussion.  And while discussion is good, there is a place for discussions about add ons (namely the forum called Add-on Discussions).  If you want to have a nice long discussion/debate on the various config settings, what work best and why, GREAT.  Make a thread there and we can discuss it all in great detail.

Sorry if I was not clear on all of that.  But I know you aren't new to these forums.  It is not uncommon for protracted debates in release threads to be "shut down" or asked to be taken elsewhere so I figured you would understand.

[Vanamonde]

Please get back to discussing the mod rather than each other. 

[RoverDude]

27 minutes ago, GiveMeABreak said:

Perhaps that was the intent, but it's not necessary. See below - difference is just hopping out and hopping back in

Note that your home timer did not reset.  That's the point

[GiveMeABreak]

2 hours ago, RoverDude said:

Note that your home timer did not reset.  That's the point

True. Loving USI-LS and MKS so far. Keep up the good work RD.

Edited January 6, 2017 by GiveMeABreak
I'll edit my own posts, thanks.

[Frybert]

Some posts have been removed. As was stated earlier, keep it on topic.

[cantab]

4 hours ago, Sol Invictus said:

Is it possible to rename all instances of "mulch" into "waste" in USI-LS? Using some simple Module Manager script for instance. I know it's a silly thing, but it would ease the transition from TAC-LS to USI-LS for me.

I wonder, how involved would it be to make an "interconverter" part? For example something that can turn TAC Water, Food, and Oxygen into USI Supplies, or vice versa? That should be doable with Module Manager and stock functionality, right?