[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[RoverDude]

4 hours ago, Kershu5 said:

I can't see how it's "too many kerbals" to be honest here, 'Dude.  You need at least 5 in there to begin with so that your other Kerbals don't suffer from loneliness.  Adding a couple more for a rounded team of research personnel and construction/maintenance/hydroponics shouldn't be that painful..  Unless the idea is to make more disconnected bases which have smaller crew counts each to begin with I guess?

I've explained this a few times already.  You do not have enough space for those Kerbals... not enough living space, and likely not enough workspace.  your loneliness penalty is nothing compared to the penalty of making them hot bunk.  Add more habs.  Has zero to do with disconnected bases and everything to do with making sure people have enough breathing room.  Side note - those habs and their space are based on data on minimum living space for prisoners (scaled to Kerbal size).  People need a surprising amount of space.

3 hours ago, Fraz86 said:

Roverdude, I briefly experimented with 0.3.4 this morning and got some bizarre results with the HabMultiplier. I used a simple ModuleManager patch to give the Cupola a HabMultiplier of 2 for testing purposes. Subsequently, in the VAB, a lone Cupola with one Kerbal gave a habitation rating of 2y410d (1260d). I can't figure out how it arrived at 1260d from a total crew capacity of 1 and a HabMultiplier of 2, but that can't possibly be correct.

I'll take a peek

3 hours ago, apocriva said:

It looks like I have a vessel which is being tracked in the Life Support Monitor, but no longer exists. Possibly from renaming the vessel? I've been doing some silly things trying to get a base up and running in orbit around the Mun. lol

What's the earliest Recycler that's available as of the latest release (0.3.4)? I'm using Community Tech Tree and am having a hard time finding modules that I can use to help extend the life of my vessels.

EDIT: I'm having a hard time finding them because it's really hard to read the tech tree in general, not because of the parts themselves.

Need a tech tree review tbh.  And let me see if I can repro your issue.

2 hours ago, ExplorerKlatt said:

He told you how in the same post where he said it was too many. The single hab module is only enough space for 2 Kerbals. The solution would be to remove some kerbals or add more hab modules. 

Bingo.

2 hours ago, lodestar said:

I'm having a hard time understanding how the Life Support/Recycler mechanics works. I have a base with 1x Pioneer, 1x Kerbitat, 1x Aeroponics, 4x MK-V Agro, 2x MK-V Hab, and at the moment only 2 kerbals. With everything turned off, they consume 32.4/day. If I start the Pioneer Life Support, it drops to 8.1/day, 75% as expected, but there's no cumulative effect. Even if I start Life Support in all modules, it stays on 8.1/day. What am I missing?

Right, as noted, there is a cap.  Plus side is those do help out as your crew gets larger (beyond the capacity of the pioneer module).

[goldenpsp]

Just curious, now that I am finally playing with the new updates, how does habitation work with inflatables?  I haven't quite been able to make heads or tails of it.

For example if I have a karibou rover with an inflatable emergency hab, inflating the Hab will increase my Kerbal's habitation timer.  But obviously I would want to deflate it in order to move.  Does the act of deflating etc incur any penalty?  Or say when deflated I would be beyond the normal habitation timer so deflating it temporarily would put the timer negative would I have immediate unhappy kerbals?  Hope this makes sense, I am still early in playing around with it.

[RoverDude]

You still have short term and long term timers.  If you were already at the cusp of that short term timer and you deflated their hab, they are probably going to be liquided you removed the bouncy castle

[goldenpsp]

2 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

You still have short term and long term timers.  If you were already at the cusp of that short term timer and you deflated their hab, they are probably going to be liquided you removed the bouncy castle

Yea I will have to go back and read more on the timers, I've forgotten the details of how timers are working and how they reset if at all.  From a thinking about it from a mission perspective I could see it being reasonable if say they were down to 1 day in their short term happiness, by inflating the bouncy house for a few days, everyone can stretch their legs and then they would have the energy to delfate it again for a few days as they regained a little from the short term timer.

But it may work like that I'll have to go back a few pages and read up again.

[RoverDude]

Yeah it does not quite work like that - the only way to reset that short term timer is to switch vessels.

So to go all meta, getting out of the base and going for a rover ride would reset the short term timer.

[goldenpsp]

Just now, RoverDude said:

Yeah it does not quite work like that - the only way to reset that short term timer is to switch vessels.

So to go all meta, getting out of the base and going for a rover ride would reset the short term timer.

Yea that's fine too.  Looking forward to the new fun.  I have a few rescue missions already (no MKS parts but ships that used to have enough food and now don't lol)

[RoverDude]

20 hours ago, Kowgan said:

Alright, looks like I've found the cause of my one-craft-only issue. If I launch a vessel from the VAB without ever opening the VAB USI-LS window, everything works fine:
http://puu.sh/mIKq7/f1ecef2288.jpg

But once I open the USI window while at the VAB , the bug happens.
http://puu.sh/mIKXO/89054dcb14.jpg
http://puu.sh/mIKN1/b1d00d7e88.jpg

I cannot repro this...

Humor me and try on a clean KSP version with just USI-LS

Unrelated.

You will now have stock or bundled parts for all of the mechanics:

- Cupola is a hab multiplier
- HitchHiker adds hab space
- The MPL is now a 70% recycler

So that being said, I am moving the DEFAULT USI-LS to 16.2 per day to be in line with the UKS config, which will allow me to beef up the Nom O Matics to be converters at an appropriate level (saves me doing extra MM files and makes support easier).  I'm ok with this since I have stock or included parts to cover all options, and modders have had a reasonable amount of warning (and worst case, their users just need to include a few stock modules to bridge the gap).

[RoverDude]

0.3.5 - 2016.01.25
------------------
Fixed an issue with the cupola config
The Science Lab is now a 70% recycler
Kerbals now consume (by default) 16.5kg of supplies per day
Nom O Matics have been tweaked to be converters based on the new scale
Habitation is now on by default (since there are sufficient stock parts to cover the mechanic)
See LSModule.cfg for suggested settings for modders making USI-LS compatible parts

[goldenpsp]

Ok just in time. Nom fix may save my current science mission :-)

[123nick]

hey why do the nom-o-matics still exist? i thought they were being replaced in some form or the other, right? by the OKS aeroponics?

[mcortez]

Just now, 123nick said:

hey why do the nom-o-matics still exist? i thought they were being replaced in some form or the other, right? by the OKS aeroponics?

For those people who do not play with MKS/UKS and only use USI-LS

[123nick]

Just now, mcortez said:

For those people who do not play with MKS/UKS and only use USI-LS

oh, so if i have both, am i like, just not supposed to use them?

[RoverDude]

1 minute ago, 123nick said:

hey why do the nom-o-matics still exist? i thought they were being replaced in some form or the other, right? by the OKS aeroponics?

See below.  The intent is that all of the bits you need come in the tin, without requiring MKS-Lite or UKS 

Just now, mcortez said:

For those people who do not play with MKS/UKS and only use USI-LS

 

[mcortez]

Just now, 123nick said:

oh, so if i have both, am i like, just not supposed to use them?

Your choice.  If you like their look & styling, or if they fill a particular niche, then feel free to use them.  There isn't a whole lot of "right way" when it comes to KSP

[123nick]

Just now, RoverDude said:

See below.  The intent is that all of the bits you need come in the tin, without requiring MKS-Lite or UKS 

 

then, can someone who use both just stick with the nom-o-matics? are the OKS-aeroponics better in some way?

 

[RoverDude]

7 minutes ago, 123nick said:

then, can someone who use both just stick with the nom-o-matics? are the OKS-aeroponics better in some way?

 

Not better, not worse, different.

[123nick]

Just now, RoverDude said:

Not better, not worse, different.

oh ok, i guess that works.

[RoverDude]

Works for me, which is the important bit.

[goldenpsp]

34 minutes ago, 123nick said:

then, can someone who use both just stick with the nom-o-matics? are the OKS-aeroponics better in some way?

 

First off it helps to probably actually look at the parts and compare.  They are completely different in both form and function.

Edited January 26, 2016 by goldenpsp

[Kowgan]

On 26/01/2016 at 11:30 PM, RoverDude said:

I cannot repro this...

Humor me and try on a clean KSP version with just USI-LS

Just did it; had the exact same result.

Here's a pack and reproduction steps:
Clean install of KSP, contaning USI-LS 0.3.5.0 + USI Tools only.
1. New sandbox save (download here).
2. Launch a rocket to LKO. So far, everything's working fine.
3. Create a new vessel. DO NOT open the USI window while in VAB. Bring it to the Launchpad. Everything's working as it should. Revert flight or recover the vessel.
4. Create a new vessel. Open the USI window while in VAB. Bring it to the Launchpad. Tada,the USI flight list is reset and only the active vessel shows up.

Output Log.

I don't know what other information I can give to help you squish that bug. Maybe I can mail you my HDD.
This is starting to tingle my brain. I don't know why wouldn't anybody else be able to reproduce this.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Kowgan

[Bloody_looser]

So, I got hooked on this mod for its simplicity and now it gets more and more complicated stuff. Well played, @RoverDude.

 

Btw, are ReplacementParts intended to be a built-in resource, or we can ferry moar?

Edited January 26, 2016 by Bloody_looser

[RoverDude]

ReplacementParts by default only light up when UKS is installed (only because there's no easy stock way of making them).  They are automatically converted from MaterialKits.  ReplacementParts themselves are just an invisible zero-mass resource I use to track wear.

[Kershu5]

Sorry for being a pain over it 'Dude, I wasn't grasping which negatives would be worse and whatnot.  I think I have a general understanding of the whole thing now though.

[Kobymaru]

Question: how fast are the vessels supposed to get "worn out"? Since the update, I timewarped at most 150 days, and the wear on my base parts is already between 15% and 40%. Is it supposed to be that high?

Currently, the hidden ReplacementParts ressource goes down 2.3 units/day, from a total of 1488. That makes for an awfully short lifespan of about 600 days. Is that by design, is there something funky going on?

23 hours ago, RoverDude said:

Depends on the base (show a pic), including the life support window.

Here's an image of the base. 5 Kerbals in total (4 in this vessel, 1 in a nearby logistics rover), and there should be space for about 10-12 if I'm not mistaken.

Also, the hab time is going down about 3 seconds per second.

What I also find strange is that the mulch is going up although I have like 5 "Life Support" recyclers, and the agroponics running. No idea if that's by design, but before the update I was definitely consuming mulch instead of producing it.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Kobymaru

[RoverDude]

19 minutes ago, Kobymaru said:

Question: how fast are the vessels supposed to get "worn out"? Since the update, I timewarped at most 150 days, and the wear on my base parts is already between 15% and 40%. Is it supposed to be that high?

Currently, the hidden ReplacementParts ressource goes down 2.3 units/day, from a total of 1488. That makes for an awfully short lifespan of about 600 days. Is that by design, is there something funky going on?

Here's an image of the base. 5 Kerbals in total (4 in this vessel, 1 in a nearby logistics rover), and there should be space for about 10-12 if I'm not mistaken.

Also, the hab time is going down about 3 seconds per second.

What I also find strange is that the mulch is going up although I have like 5 "Life Support" recyclers, and the agroponics running. No idea if that's by design, but before the update I was definitely consuming mulch instead of producing it.

Recyclers do not get rid of mulch they just have you make less of it.  Turn on the ag module's agroponics to get rid of mulch and convert it into more supplies.

With so few Kerbals, just turn on only your best recycler.  Add more only if it reduces your supply load - once they stop being effective, turn them off, see how that affects your hab burn time.