Damn, ISP nerf...

[Radam]

I guess that was the balance...

[EtherDragon]

Specific nerfs? I don't have all the new stats on all the engines.

Mainly the change to the game was instead of ISP changing with atmospheric pressure - Thrust (KN) per unit of fuel (KG) changes with atmospheric pressure. Flow rate remains constant, but thrust decreases in atmosphere for rockets.

[Radam]

Specific nerfs? I don't have all the new stats on all the engines.

Mainly the change to the game was instead of ISP changing with atmospheric pressure - Thrust (KN) per unit of fuel (KG) changes with atmospheric pressure. Flow rate remains constant, but thrust decreases in atmosphere for rockets.

What you are mentioning isnt actually that different at all from previous version. But like mainsail has now isp value of 285 to 310... Nerva is still at 800 and aerospike has 290 to 330.

[1greywind]

Aerispike is crippled: Isp goes from 290 (ASL) to just 330 (Vac)

Poodle Isp is no-existent at ASL: 85 and just ok at Vac: 350 but it now weights only 1.75 ton! (was 2)

LV-909 is even wrose: 85-345

48-7S is nerfed to oblivion with Isp 270-300 and halved thrust: 18 kN max.

Well, I must say that all time most hated Mk-55 look not bad in 1.0 with Isp 275-305 and 120 kN thrust - Actually it is on same performance level as LV-T30 - Isp 280-300 and 215 kN thrust.

Oh, and airbreathing engines now have realistic Isp - much bigger than before: 8000 for Turbojet and 19200 for Basic jet.

Edit Post

[monophonic]

What you are mentioning isnt actually that different at all from previous version. But like mainsail has now isp value of 285 to 310... Nerva is still at 800 and aerospike has 290 to 330.

That is to balance the lesser dV needed to reach orbit with the new aerodynamics. Or so I think, my download hasn't finished yet so I am yet to see for myself how much orbiting has changed.

[Temeter]

If you nerf every single engine, then no engine is crippled.

I think it's a good decision. FAR was to easy, and it should be still easier to get into space than stock. Nunkes seem to be unavoidable now.

[Hotblack Desiato]

I have to say, that I'm now waiting for a stock rebalance mod, which brings back the old NEAR/FAR experience. maybe a bit overpowered, but a stock SLS-rocket which looked like the SLS in real was capable of sending more than 60t into LKO. and that was great.

but now, hmmm....

by the way: the LV-N has not only an ISP of 800, but it just requires liquid fuel, no oxidizer. think about it this way ;-)

[Temeter]

The LV-N also now weights 3 tons and has no gimbal.

[Tiberion]

The same rocket you used to launch in 0.90 should be more capable in 1l0 despite the Isp nerfs, because the atmosphere is way different and you accelerate much faster through the lower atmosphere. Don't get stuck on the numbers and build rockets, getting to orbit is pretty easy.

Since Vac Isp went down, that does mean that planetary exploration craft will need to be slightly beefier.

[Hcube]

Those nerfs though !! the beloved 909 really went down... i know it has 60kN max thrust now, but That is not really rebalancing it since it is often used in clusters, power wasnt an issue anyway... It wasnt good at 1 thing : efficiency. Now it is just useless. I'll just keep using it cuz its the only 1.25m 2nd stage engine that is left

EDIT : And i complain about FPS developers nerfing guns into oblivion and buffing the crazy OP ones haha guess the same happens with LFO engines

[wossname]

I fear no more ion gliders. 0.1kn thrust on the runway.

[CaptRobau]

Aerispike is crippled: Isp goes from 290 (ASL) to just 330 (Vac)

Again? The aerospike would be an awesome piece of technology for the late game if not for the unrealistic crippling.

[Hcube]

I fear no more ion gliders. 0.1kn thrust on the runway.

What ? Nooooooo!! i didnt know that ;(

[Radam]

If you nerf every single engine, then no engine is crippled.

I think it's a good decision. FAR was to easy, and it should be still easier to get into space than stock. Nunkes seem to be unavoidable now.

I did say ISP nerf not a specific engine... Ok it is about the same to get into orbit. Only need 3500ms compared to 4500 before. But still.

[NathanKell]

CaptRobau: highly, highly realistic. The aerospike used to be an unrealistic IWIN button for Isp. I'm happy to see it got made realistic. Aerospikes are not magic devices that can break the laws of physics and give you higher Isp at a given pressure than reality allows. Instead, they let you have near optimal for that pressure Isp at most any ambient pressure.

A bell nozzle at its optimal pressure will always be more efficient than an altitude-compensating nozzle...but the latter is liable to be more efficient everywhere else. For instance, see what happens to the LV-T45 on Eve, compared to the Aerospike.

[Torham234]

Poodle Isp is no-existent at ASL: 85 and just ok at Vac: 350 but it now weights only 1.75 ton! (was 2)

Edit Post

You are kidding right? this engine was specifically developed for vacuum use only. It is very lightweight and offers one of the best (if not the best) Vac ISP, short of the nuke.

[panzer1b]

All in all, EVEN MORE of a reason to go pure nukes for anything but landing or takeoff. Pretty much the one engine that was (well not OP per say but had no downsides) kinda powerful, the nuke, only suffered a minor weight increase, something id call insignificant especially that it has almost 3 times the ISP of most engines now. This basicaklly screams use nukes for everything now, especially if you dont want to stage much.

As for ions, i actually like the atmo nerf, ions (sci-fi aside) should not work well if at all near ground level, u can still land on mun with em, but no more OPness.

[Torham234]

This basicaklly screams use nukes for everything now, especially if you dont want to stage much.

They easily overheat to the point of destroying connected parts like fuel tanks. I am at the moment developing a heat radiator for the nuke, but this itself adds a lot of weight to already very heavy engine. I really do not see the temptation to use nuke for short haul or small probe missions.

As for the big missions, yes that is why we (humans) were trying to develop it since 60's. It is a good concept. Also it is deep within the tech tree in KSP, you have to do quite a few missions before you get it.

[magnemoe]

All in all, EVEN MORE of a reason to go pure nukes for anything but landing or takeoff. Pretty much the one engine that was (well not OP per say but had no downsides) kinda powerful, the nuke, only suffered a minor weight increase, something id call insignificant especially that it has almost 3 times the ISP of most engines now. This basicaklly screams use nukes for everything now, especially if you dont want to stage much.

As for ions, i actually like the atmo nerf, ions (sci-fi aside) should not work well if at all near ground level, u can still land on mun with em, but no more OPness.

Same rules as before, 48-7S for tiny probes and landers, 909 for medium, LV-N for everything else.

I'm angry of the hard 909 nerf, now you can not use it to do soft landing on return anymore while the 48-7S still works for this.

[hoojiwana]

They easily overheat to the point of destroying connected parts like fuel tanks. I am at the moment developing a heat radiator for the nuke, but this itself adds a lot of weight to already very heavy engine. I really do not see the temptation to use nuke for short haul or small probe missions.

You can use deployed solar panels as radiators, that might help keep the tank cool at least.

[Torham234]

You can use deployed solar panels as radiators, that might help keep the tank cool at least.

Solar panels are actually REALLY bad radiators though. Here is some samples I have done so far. The best by far are the aircraft wing sections. They are very light and very heat resistant, and have great surface area and heat radiation capability.

Each screenshot was taken when the temperature maxed out and started decreasing. As you can see the wing section managed to cool the nuke while still running. The one on the lower left corner is the control, with no radiator.

http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/b514/yes753cac/Radiators_zpswynzbrwq.jpg~original' alt='Radiators_zpswynzbrwq.jpg~original'>

[Kelderek]

It's easier to get through the atmosphere now so the engines are balanced to accommodate that. The main changes are to make upper stage engines work poorly at sea level so you are not tempted to use them in your bottom stages.

[NathanKell]

Good thinking making them all perpendicular to the sun!