New Mobile Processing Lab mechanics

MacroNova · April 29, 2015

Echoing what Xavven said, and would also like to say Thanks, Roverdude, for being so active on the forums and answering all our questions. I've learned a lot from your posts and have been passing on much of it to the Kerbal Academy subreddit, where it has earned me many fake internet points that really belong to you.

Streetwind · April 30, 2015

Bumping this thread because a.) it's an awesome source of info I was looking for and b.) it has spawned additional questions/desire for detail clarifications in my head.

You get a data bonus if you are on the ground vs orbit.
You get a data bonus if the lab is in/around the same body the science came from

Do you get the data bonus for being on the ground also for processing science taken in orbit?

What I infer from this is basically:

- injecting a science experiment into the lab generates lab data depending on the amount of science the experiment is worth (which includes the multiplier for the source body)

- but not its transfer size in Mits

- lab data generated also depends on the location of the lab, with a flat bonus for experiments from the same SoI, and a flat bonus for having the "landed" status

- what about "splashed down"?

Actually... your multiplier while on Kerbin is incredibly low - i.e. you don't learn more about the behavior of plants in space or life on other worlds by driving a rover through central park

- the flat bonus for being landed is lower on Kerbin than elsewhere (almost no bonus)? Or were you referring to the value of Kerbin surface science being negligible in the first place?

- if the former: does that mean that the bonus is always location dependant, i.e. a lab landed on Eeloo gets a higher "landed" bonus than one on Minmus? Or is only Kerbin penalized for being a "known environment"?

Science rate is based on scientists and how much data you have.

So it's beneficial to keep the lab near topped off with data? And the amount of data consumed per day is fixed, just the science result from it varies?

Each lab can, in it's lifetime, research only one copy of any single unique experiment result. Goo at the poles and Goo over the grasslands are two different results.
You can put an experiment in as many labs as you like

...so I could generate infinite science for little to no cost by building a MPL into a spaceplane, putting it into Mun orbit, processing science there, returning to KSC, recovering it for 100% value, and launching it anew to Mun orbit to repeat all the experiments? Or did I completely misunderstand that?

KerbMav · April 30, 2015

Stuff you folks probably care about:
Scientists matter - the more stars the better.
You can plunk data in even if you have no more normal science to gain (otherwise it would limit what you could use based on when you got the lab unlocked).
You get a data bonus if you are on the ground vs orbit.
You get a data bonus if the lab is in/around the same body the science came from
Science rate is based on scientists and how much data you have.
It has a long tail! But anticipate about 5 science per data.
Each lab can, in it's lifetime, research only one copy of any single unique experiment result. Goo at the poles and Goo over the grasslands are two different results.
You can put an experiment in as many labs as you like

1. Every kerbonaut can man a lab, but scientists just do it better?

2. Location only matters in the moment an experiment's data is put into the lab?

3. Does Location give a bonus to conversion rate/speed too or only to amount of data from experiment?

4. Is the conversion rate data:science always the same, only conversion speed (science/day) being influenced by crew quality, amount of available data, ... ?

5. Do science and/or data decay over time or is only the overflow lost when science is full and data still being converted?

6. The processing bonus before transmitting is gone? (No tears here, honestly.)

7. Can the lab still store unlimited amounts of repeated experiments to return them to Kerbin's surface?

8. Can I store the results in the lab/a pod, land, click view stored experiments and move their data into the processor?

e.g. Fly to Mun, circle it while doing experiments and collecting reports from above every biome (do EVA/crew reports give data?) in the lab, land, take a smaller lander, hop from biome to biome, store experiments in the crew pod, dock the lander back to the lab, click view stored experiments on pod and lab and move all the data into the processor?

9. Can I dock to different stations and move the data from the same experiment x number of times or do I need to get a new sample per lab?

So, maximising would mean to:

fly a lab with two four star scientists in it around the system,

land the lab on every body,

collect every available experiment on and around this body,

put the data in the lab while still landed,

and start converting when data is full inbetween (while flying to the next body).

Right?

Edited April 30, 2015 by KerbMav

Cdr_Zeta · April 30, 2015

Hello,

I havnt a clue about the Science lab; never used it...he said the regular science was decoupled; wouldnt that mean I would have to give up my regular Science to get data instead? And over a longer period of time...this implies I should get more Science over the long term versus getting it all at once...is this the case?

Ugh lol !

Cmdr Zeta

Streetwind · April 30, 2015

That was answered further up already... you can transmit and return as usual, but also run the same experiment again and put it into a lab for long-term benefits.

RoverDude · April 30, 2015

1. I'll have to check on if slashed gives the same bonus as landed.

2. If you are landed on the home planet, you actually get a penalty.

3. Yes it is location dependent. A base landed on Eeloo is better than a base landed on the mun. A base in Eeloo orbit is also better than a base in Munar orbit.

4. It is very beneficial to keep your lab topped off, if you want to maximize the conversion rate.

5. You can in fact generate infinite science, provided you're willing to invest in the infrastructure and time. This is by design, because Science was the last currency that had a limited supply. That being said, in your scenario there is no recovery bonus. You would have to wait it out and convert that data to science and transmit it over time.

6. You need scientists in the lab. Non scientists just eat the experiments.

7. Location matters only at the moment it is put into the lab, then it is in the data pool.

8. Location only affects data amount.

9. The conversion rate is always the same - 1 data becomes 5 science.

10. Science and data do not decay over time, but research will stop once science is full.

11. The processing bonus for transmission is gone.

12. You can still store unlimited experiments.

13. Any time you see the yellow beaker you can transfer to the lab, regardless of when you did that experiment. But bonuses are based on the lab's situation at that time.

14. You can use one experiment and feed it to multiple labs. the limiter here is in the management of so many research facilities.

RE your MinMax - go for it

KerbMav · April 30, 2015

run the same experiment again and put it into a lab

In the few videos I saw that the lab was used - one video? - it looked like you could put the data from the experiment into the lab and transmit/return the science too right afterwards - but I am not very observent lately.

RoverDude · April 30, 2015

You can transmit the experiment, sure. But that's a one time deal and separate from the research mechanic.

KerbMav · April 30, 2015

1. I'll have to check on if slashed gives the same bonus as landed.
2. If you are landed on the home planet, you actually get a penalty.
3. Yes it is location dependent. A base landed on Eeloo is better than a base landed on the mun. A base in Eeloo orbit is also better than a base in Munar orbit.
4. It is very beneficial to keep your lab topped off, if you want to maximize the conversion rate.
5. You can in fact generate infinite science, provided you're willing to invest in the infrastructure and time. This is by design, because Science was the last currency that had a limited supply. That being said, in your scenario there is no recovery bonus. You would have to wait it out and convert that data to science and transmit it over time.
6. You need scientists in the lab. Non scientists just eat the experiments.
7. Location matters only at the moment it is put into the lab, then it is in the data pool.
8. Location only affects data amount.
9. The conversion rate is always the same - 1 data becomes 5 science.
10. Science and data do not decay over time, but research will stop once science is full.
11. The processing bonus for transmission is gone.
12. You can still store unlimited experiments.
13. Any time you see the yellow beaker you can transfer to the lab, regardless of when you did that experiment. But bonuses are based on the lab's situation at that time.
14. You can use one experiment and feed it to multiple labs. the limiter here is in the management of so many research facilities.
RE your MinMax - go for it

6. Ahm ... oh ... OH-OH!!!

9. Good, this relieves a lot of pressure for the mad number crunchers ... :wink:

10. I remembered decaying science being mentioned at some point, but even better this way!

14. Anyone else envisioning a base on Eeloo, ten different labs gathered around a spaceport with KAS fuel lines to individually connect them one after the other and feeding them data from incoming ships from all over the system? :cool:

Thanks for feeding my inquisitive brain!

The ultimate question remaining would be: Is there a point where the bonus from being on Eeloo overcomes the bonus from putting a Munar experiment into the lab while at Mun? :wink:

RE MinMax ... kinda going to do it similar to what I wrote, but not to the fullest extend!

magnemoe · April 30, 2015

1. Every kerbonaut can man a lab, but scientists just do it better?
2. Location only matters in the moment an experiment's data is put into the lab?
3. Does Location give a bonus to conversion rate/speed too or only to amount of data from experiment?
4. Is the conversion rate data:science always the same, only conversion speed (science/day) being influenced by crew quality, amount of available data, ... ?
5. Do science and/or data decay over time or is only the overflow lost when science is full and data still being converted?
6. The processing bonus before transmitting is gone? (No tears here, honestly.)
7. Can the lab still store unlimited amounts of repeated experiments to return them to Kerbin's surface?
8. Can I store the results in the lab/a pod, land, click view stored experiments and move their data into the processor?
e.g. Fly to Mun, circle it while doing experiments and collecting reports from above every biome (do EVA/crew reports give data?) in the lab, land, take a smaller lander, hop from biome to biome, store experiments in the crew pod, dock the lander back to the lab, click view stored experiments on pod and lab and move all the data into the processor?
9. Can I dock to different stations and move the data from the same experiment x number of times or do I need to get a new sample per lab?
So, maximising would mean to:
fly a lab with two four star scientists in it around the system,
land the lab on every body,
collect every available experiment on and around this body,
put the data in the lab while still landed,
and start converting when data is full inbetween (while flying to the next body).
Right?

I think its multiple effects here: science/ day is most important:

Location, an multiplier depending on location: probably work like the science you get from an crew report, ground give more bonus than orbit here too.

kerbals: scientist with lots of stars increase speed, do not know the factor here pilot with 3 stars or scientist with 1?

How full the lab is with data is also important think an lab with 500 data gives twice the output as one with 250.

You can not have more data than 500, but you can store experiments for later analyze.

You can also analyze stuff like previously transmitted eva reports for the same data as an new report for the same data.

How much data you get from experiment depend on the science value of it, bonus if in same SOI, not sure if landed affects this.

----

Roverdude, ninjaed me and cleared up stuff, like the need to use scientists.

However is the landed bonus the same as the landed bonus for science multiplier?

- - - Updated - - -

That was answered further up already... you can transmit and return as usual, but also run the same experiment again and put it into a lab for long-term benefits.

True, the only downside happens if you have stuff like surface samples or material lab experiments who you want to return but the lab has 500 data and they have to wait for free space before analyzing.

Look like its smart to add that sort of data first and keep reports as backup.

Edited April 30, 2015 by magnemoe

KerbMav · April 30, 2015

True, the only downside happens if you have stuff like surface samples or material lab experiments who you want to return but the lab has 500 data and they have to wait for free space before analyzing.
Look like its smart to add that sort of data first and keep reports as backup.

Ah, a fellow efficienist, well met to thee!

Curveball Anders · April 30, 2015

Hmm RoverDude providing what seems to be hard facts.

Which can only mean that he's lying or tricking us to believe that we understand the system.

Never trust a Klingon, erh Dev ...

edit:

ytube link for the culturally inferior(or just plain too young)

Edited April 30, 2015 by Curveball Anders

RoverDude · April 30, 2015

Actually I wrote the system

Kerbol Macrosystems · April 30, 2015

6. You need scientists in the lab. Non scientists just eat the experiments.

Can you guys please animate this in the IVA? And if there's one scientist and one non scientist the scientist will shake his head in disappointment while the non-scientist keeps eating obliviously?

Kelderek · April 30, 2015

Roverdude, for the data acquired from doing research in this manner, does it require transmission with an antenna or can you also just bring a lab with the 500 science back to Kerbin and recover it that way? I actually tried this and I think I may have lost the 500 science because I did not transmit it, I just assumed I would get it upon recovering the craft after landing. I did not notice any line item on the science panel of the vessel recovery summary window that equaled the 500 from the lab - I only saw the science items that I had stored in my command pod.

Also, does the science from the lab show up in the archive at all so you can keep track of it?

KerbMav · April 30, 2015

Also, does the science from the lab show up in the archive at all so you can keep track of it?

I dont think so, as you can do every experiment processing again and again for every new lab you ever built.

webanck · April 30, 2015

Roverdude, for the data acquired from doing research in this manner, does it require transmission with an antenna or can you also just bring a lab with the 500 science back to Kerbin and recover it that way? I actually tried this and I think I may have lost the 500 science because I did not transmit it, I just assumed I would get it upon recovering the craft after landing. I did not notice any line item on the science panel of the vessel recovery summary window that equaled the 500 from the lab - I only saw the science items that I had stored in my command pod.
Also, does the science from the lab show up in the archive at all so you can keep track of it?

Thx RoverDude for the answers

To the former question I would like to add: is there an archive of the processed experiments on a per lab basis? It would be very handy to keep track of what can still be achieved by the lab before trying to bring the data.

MacroNova · April 30, 2015

Can you guys please animate this in the IVA? And if there's one scientist and one non scientist the scientist will shake his head in disappointment while the non-scientist keeps eating obliviously?

Seconded.

RoverDude · April 30, 2015

No archive info visualized for the science lab, sorry.

Kelderek · April 30, 2015

What about the question of transmitting versus returning the lab to Kerbin? Will landing and recovering the lab on Kerbin retrieve any stored science that was generated from research, and if so, will it show up on the recovery summary science view?

RoverDude · April 30, 2015

No stored science is gained on recovery. Only via transmission from the research lab.

kanelives · April 30, 2015

What's the advantage of using a lab over just bringing everything back to kerbin if you're only going to the moon and minimums?

RoverDude · April 30, 2015

What's the advantage of using a lab over just bringing everything back to kerbin if you're only going to the moon and minimums?

You can do both. Also, five times the science. But requires an investment in infrastructure.

Enorats · April 30, 2015

All the science you get can be used to make "data" in the lab by processing. A surface sample worth ~200 science gives something like 450 data. That data is then used up generating more science (generating 1 science seems to use up like 1/4 of a data point), and how fast you convert data to science depends on.. well, I've no idea. Some of my stations convert at a rate of like .03 science a day and others .3 science a day. The number and level of my scientists inside don't seem to make a difference. It seems like the higher the science value of the celestial body your orbiting or landed on, the faster your science is generated.

Basically - mobile labs can quadruple the science you get from all sources, and you don't have to recover them or anything. You just have to set one up and fast forward a year or so to get a giant chunk of science. They give so much science that I haven't even been bothering to recover anything, I just let the lab examine it and then throw whatever it was in the trash while they transmit the results back to me.

Kelderek · April 30, 2015

No stored science is gained on recovery. Only via transmission from the research lab.

Ok so then it's key to remember to transmit before you land and recover your lab on Kerbin then, or you'll miss out on any stored science from research.

New Mobile Processing Lab mechanics

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