New Mobile Processing Lab mechanics

[Slam_Jones]

I honestly haven't used it since 0.90 I believe. Before the changes happened, at least.

[Jansn]

I have several MPLs around the Kerbol System, each filled up with 2-Star-Scientists

to generate Science Points which i convert into Funds (Career Game with full Tech Tree).

The generated Science i can transmit, but the "Data" is full now after processing some

experiments.

How can i reset these Data Counters or do i have to send/replace new MPLs to continue

processing Science Data?

[FlyingPete]

I'm now starting to see a practical use for the administration building. With long-term research going on around both Mun and Minmus, you can do science for profit by using the Science->Funds and possibly Science->Reputation strategies. It would have to be worth the investment in infrastructure and running costs though.

[Laie]

It would have to be worth the investment in infrastructure and running costs though.

Running costs? Not without mods.

The real problem, IMO, is the babysitting. With level-3 scientists, you have to drop everything you're doing and look after the lab approximately twice a year. Then sit and watch as science gets uploaded (takes a while even with the best antenna) and new data is processed into the lab. The latter depends on type of experiment, not science value: gravimeter readings, probably the most common data, take ~30 seconds each. Atmosphere Analysis? More than a minute. And in this case, time warp won't help you.

Though personally, I'm not sure that the amount of time spent watching a progress meter really matters very much. The main cost is that it breaks the flow every so often.

[KerikBalm]

yea... the atmosphere analysis takes so long to transmit... the data size seems poorly balanced...

[FlyingPete]

Running costs? Not without mods.

What I mean is that if you're running excursions to the surface from an orbiting lab/station, you'll need to send resupply ships with extra fuel (plus extra crews if you feel like rotating them out for training purposes.)

[lost_in_space]

So I have an MPL orbiting Kerbin. It's been up there for a while. 2 scientists (1 star) in the MPL, 1 pilot in the command module.

I decided to change out the pilot for another scientist (1 star), so I send a ship up there to make the transfer. I then notice that the science rate did not increase. I took all kerbals out of all modules and put them back in again. I saw increase with kerbals placed into the MPL, but not in the command module.

I thought it was all supposed to add up no matter where the kerbals were on the ship?!

[Captain H@dock]

That exploit was fixed in 1.0.3 if I'm not mistaken. Only the scientist manning the lab now count for science generation speed.

[strollen]

Wow this has been a super helpful thread.

I have a related question to mobile lab. I have a space station with mobile lab, docked in the space station is a Mun Lander, and resupply ship which I used to transfer two scientists.

The lab is complete filled with 500 data worth of experiment, and there is a backlog of low-value experiments to put in it. My lander has been to the Mun a few times and has a bunch of experiments (soil samples etc.) with a lot of science.

The lander has no parachute and can't make it back to Kerbin. Luckily my supply ship can.  I'm trying to figure how can I transfer the experiment from the lander to the supply ship.  I can't seem to figure out the process for taking the experiments from the lander and moving them to the supply ship? I also have a couple of high value experiments which are in the lab but I'd like to send them back with the supply ship. One idea was to take to do an EVA from the lander to the supply ship, but I was hoping there was an easier way.

 

 

[michal.don]

5 hours ago, strollen said:

One idea was to take to do an EVA from the lander to the supply ship, but I was hoping there was an easier way.

Strollen,

I'm afraid there actually isn't another way, so you'll have to do the EVA thing. On the other hand, EVAs aren't really that difficult, so it's not that much of a problem.

Michal.don

[Plusck]

I would say that this thread should be allowed to die, since almost all of the info in it is wildly out-of-date. I've only checked a few pages but from the first post until page 9 (out of 10) there is wrong info.

Among the most glaringly wrong things in the thread for the current version:

- one scientist needs to be physically in the lab for it to work, or to add data to it. Two scientists physically in the lab for maximum data-to-points conversion.

- having experiments attached to the lab is pretty pointless. About the only one that might be worth having is the gravioli one since it takes different readings for "in orbit over X biome", but that is an expensive addition that would be better on a lander.

So really the whole thread should be marked as "no longer relevant".

Edited January 5, 2016 by Plusck

[Rumpelstiltskin]

For me mobile processing lab ruins concept of "career" game mode. Are there any mods, that can fix this and balance enormous science income from labs? 

Any advices?

Thanks

Edited January 28, 2016 by Rumpelstiltskin

[sal_vager]

The mobile processing lab exists as an option for people who want science without having to go get it (after it is unlocked that is), and is also a component for station contracts.

[Streetwind]

3 hours ago, Rumpelstiltskin said:

For me mobile processing lab ruins concept of "career" game mode. Are there any mods, that can fix this and balance enormous science income from labs? 

Any advices?

Thanks

There's already an infinite amount of science available in stock career, even without the processing lab - through multiple sources, even. The lab is just another option among many.

But if you are looking for a different gameplay implementation of performing experiments in orbiting labs, try a mod called Station Science. It doesn't reprogram the stock lab IIRC, but it does add plenty of its own content.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Streetwind

[Snark]

8 hours ago, Rumpelstiltskin said:

For me mobile processing lab ruins concept of "career" game mode. Are there any mods, that can fix this and balance enormous science income from labs?

Yes, my favorite one is called "Just Don't Use The Science Lab." 

The MPL is a compromise, as sal_vager points out.  Different KSP players have very different likes/dislikes.  For me, "you have to go lots of places to get science" is a feature, but for others it may be a tedious grind.  So the MPL is there to enable a different playstyle.

I myself never use 'em (unless I'm sticking one on a station for a contract), because for me they're a game-killer, same as for you.  Besides, I don't need 'em-- I can get all the science I need by strip-mining Mun and Minmus for science, and can do so before a science lab has even had a chance to really get started.

One thing that can really change around the "balance" of science labs is if you're running a mod like TAC Life Support, which means you have to keep your spaceships supplied with food/water/oxygen or the kerbals die.  If you do that, parking a science lab somewhere for months is no longer free (you have to keep it supplied), and that mitigates the "overpowered" feeling.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Thanks for the replies!

Life support seems way too tedious option. I thought of running costs of the Lab or maybe fuel-dependant Lab. That would be good tradeof for me.

Seems I'll just get rid of that for now, too cheaty.

[MrOsterman]

1 hour ago, Rumpelstiltskin said:

Thanks for the replies!

Life support seems way too tedious option. I thought of running costs of the Lab or maybe fuel-dependant Lab. That would be good tradeof for me.

Seems I'll just get rid of that for now, too cheaty.

Another option is to eliminate the use of solar panels and rely only on Fuel Cells to power it.  That will require you to keep it fueled at least.

[Streetwind]

Okay, a serious question related to the processing lab's mechanics, for once:

According to the wiki, the lab generates data out of experiments based on the following:
- The science value of the experiment
- The location of the lab, and whether it is landed or in orbit
- Whether or not the experiment originates from the same SoI in which the lab currently resides

I would like to know about the second of those. Namely, I want to know precisely how the lab determines a value multiplier depending on its location. Does it simply read out the celestial body multipliers? And if so, does that indeed mean that a lab "high in space above <body>" generates less data from the same experiment than a lab "low in space above <body>"... except for Kerbin, where it's reversed?

All of the descriptions I've seen only make a difference between being generically "in orbit" or generically "on the surface". Since there is even the potential for "splashed down" and "landed" multipliers to be different (Kerbin does it!), that means that either the lab does not in fact examine the celestial body multiplier and has its own, less granular list of destination values somewhere... OR, said descriptions are oversimplifying the way it works.

So which of the two is it?

[Streetwind]

Hmm... nobody? That's kinda disappointiong

Guess I'll have to run a test, then.

[Snark]

5 hours ago, Streetwind said:

Hmm... nobody? That's kinda disappointiong

Guess I'll have to run a test, then.

I don't know the answer, so yes, you'd have to run a test.

That said, however:  in my experience, it really doesn't matter.  As long as you're putting experiments in that are from the same SoI where the lab is located, you'll have data coming out of your ears.  Science results generate a lot of data, far more than you can use.  In my experience, data supply is never the bottleneck, not even close.  The bottleneck is how fast the lab can turn that data into science points.  Invariably, the typical experience with a lab looks like:

1. go somewhere with a lab
2. collect a bunch of science results
3. put them all in the lab (or, at least, in the ship where the lab is)
4. start clicking the "research" button on them to make data
5. fill up the lab to the 500-data limit... when you've only used a tenth of the science results
6. say to yourself "oh well, that's good, I'll just leave the other 90% of them as reserve to "top off the tank" as the science lab burns through data
7. never run out because the science lab is so slow and you have so much data that you haven't exhausted the data supply even when you're done playing that career and are ready to start a new one

So by all means go and research this if you want, but honestly, there's really no point. 

[Streetwind]

20 minutes ago, Snark said:

*snip*

So by all means go and research this if you want, but honestly, there's really no point. 

Oh, there is, trust me. I want to know this not because I have an OCD desire to maximize science point income, but rather because I want to evaluate compatibility with mods that move Kerbin around and change the logical progression of celestial bodies you visit. If the MPL simply grabs the situation multipliers for its inner workings, that's the ideal case, because it means you have to do absolutely nothing to maintain compatibility.

[Snark]

Just now, Streetwind said:

Oh, there is, trust me. I want to know this not because I have an OCD desire to maximize science point income, but rather because I want to evaluate compatibility with mods that move Kerbin around and change the logical progression of celestial bodies you visit. If the MPL simply grabs the situation multipliers for its inner workings, that's the ideal case, because it means you have to do absolutely nothing to maintain compatibility.

Any chance it's the New Horizons mod you're playing with?

That's a mod that completely rearranges everything... and it also tinkers with science values.  In particular, it moves Kerbin to be a moon of a gas giant (one of several moons)... and it heavily nerfs the science multipliers for the other moons of the gas giant.  The upshot is that playing New Horizons, science is a real struggle and takes a long time.  It's not like stock, where you basically just send one mission to Minmus to strip-mine it for science, then one to the Mun, then you're done.

The result is that my New Horizons playthrough is the only career post-1.0 that I've ever used an MPL for anything.  Normally, I never bother with MPL at all, because it just takes so long to generate any results that it's useless to me-- I get along fine without it, I get much more bang for my buck by just going out and doing, y'know, science.  However, in New Horizons, the science multipliers in the Sonnah system are nerfed so heavily that the science grind is just excruciating.  (Don't get me wrong, I love New Horizons like a brother, it's a great mod and tons of fun, which I highly recommend to any interested parties.  However, IMHO the author rather overdid the science nerfage for the Sonnah system.  Some nerfing is needed, I think, but he overdid it.)

So anyway, I used an MPL with New Horizons, dinky science multipliers and all, and still had no trouble filling up a lab with data.  I didn't particularly notice whether the data amount scaled with the science multiplier, because data is so oversupplied that even if you nerf it heavily it would still fill up the MPL with no trouble at all.

[Streetwind]

Well, there are, or were, other examples. But yeah, New Horizons would qualify as far as my question is concerned

[Jetski]

On 2/1/2016 at 11:10 AM, Snark said:

Any chance it's the New Horizons mod you're playing with?

That's a mod that completely rearranges everything... and it also tinkers with science values.  In particular, it moves Kerbin to be a moon of a gas giant (one of several moons)... and it heavily nerfs the science multipliers for the other moons of the gas giant.  The upshot is that playing New Horizons, science is a real struggle and takes a long time.  It's not like stock, where you basically just send one mission to Minmus to strip-mine it for science, then one to the Mun, then you're done.

The result is that my New Horizons playthrough is the only career post-1.0 that I've ever used an MPL for anything.  Normally, I never bother with MPL at all, because it just takes so long to generate any results that it's useless to me-- I get along fine without it, I get much more bang for my buck by just going out and doing, y'know, science.  However, in New Horizons, the science multipliers in the Sonnah system are nerfed so heavily that the science grind is just excruciating.  (Don't get me wrong, I love New Horizons like a brother, it's a great mod and tons of fun, which I highly recommend to any interested parties.  However, IMHO the author rather overdid the science nerfage for the Sonnah system.  Some nerfing is needed, I think, but he overdid it.)

So anyway, I used an MPL with New Horizons, dinky science multipliers and all, and still had no trouble filling up a lab with data.  I didn't particularly notice whether the data amount scaled with the science multiplier, because data is so oversupplied that even if you nerf it heavily it would still fill up the MPL with no trouble at all.

Playing through New Horizons now with Intersteller mod, pretty much need the MPL to get anywhere.  Soon I'll have the Intersteller MPL, which is VERY overpowered (10000 data buffer!), so it actually starts chewing away at the massive tree.

[Streetwind]

Oh by the way, I did test this. The MPL does not go by situation multiplier, at least not directly. Low orbit and high orbit are exactly the same.

Well, I guess I won't find out if planet reordering screws with it until I actually play... *peers at the 1.1 QA process*