Multiple Satelite missions with a single probe - feels like abuse?

[Kerr_]

So if no one else has noticed, once you make a few good missions to the Muun/Minmus you get lots of sat placement missions. You can accept as many as you like before launching a probe - and that probe can finish all of the contracts at once time.

[iN _HARD_ CAREER]

My probe design (Thermometer, 2x goo container, materials bay, antenna, heat shield, landing legs) costs ~45K at launch, while most sat missions at my level are 70-100K payout (with Minmus and Muun sats being worth more)

My probe has ~ 4K dv left once it makes LKO, that's a lot of positions and trips about the kerbin SOI possible!

My most recent mission had me:

Launch/Orbit,

Read Temperature(Science mission),

Equatorial Orbit(Sat Mission),

'Specific' Orbit(Sat Mission),

Flyby Mun(For boost),

Transfer to Minmus,

Sync. Orbit of Minmus(Sat Mission),

Land on Minmus/send data('Firsts' Landing Mission, [Accept and Fill New Data Mission]),

[Accept a 'return from Minmus' mission, and a 'Return from Minmus flyby' mission],

Exit Minmus SOI, return to Minmus SOI ensure the flyby condition was met,

Polar Kerbin Orbit(Sat Mission)(Easier to go polar after Minmus),

Transfer to Muun, make a specific orbit(Sat Mission),

[Accept new Muun surface mission],

Land on mun, take science(Science Mission)

Exit mun,

Return to Kerbin,

Recover

Worth over a million roots, and tons of science. Took about 2.5 Hours to do, with most of the time spent on the landings. Only 3 Tier 5 techs(Electrics, Heavy Rocketry, Advanced Fuel Systems)

I feel like the sat missions should somehow remove control of the sat - you were paid to put it there, but perhaps they meant for you to leave it there lol...

Does this seem abusive to you guys, or normal?

Edited May 5, 2015 by Kerr_

[Shpaget]

This is a sandbox game. You make your own rules.

If requested orbits are similar, I use one sat to do multiple. Otherwise I try to launch multiples sats on one launch vehicle.

[Kerr_]

This is a sandbox game. You make your own rules.

If requested orbits are similar, I use one sat to do multiple. Otherwise I try to launch multiples sats on one launch vehicle.

On hard career mode != Sandbox game anymore I think.

[EtherDragon]

It does feel a little exploity. But hey, if it's in the core came go crazy go nuts.

These kinds of satellite contracts are perfect for science over time rewards, too.

"Place this satellite in a specific orbit around <wherever> and gain <quantity> Science and <amount> Funds per day for <number> of days."

[WhirlwindMonk]

It does feel a little exploity. But hey, if it's in the core came go crazy go nuts.

These kinds of satellite contracts are perfect for science over time rewards, too.

"Place this satellite in a specific orbit around <wherever> and gain <quantity> Science and <amount> Funds per day for <number> of days."

That would be cool. Make it very difficult, if not impossible, to make a profit on the up-front rewards, but the on-going rewards eventually make them very valuable.

[255]

Multiple Satelite missions with a single probe

LOL, is this seriously still exploitable in 1.0.2?

[Methusalem]

I feel like the sat missions should somehow remove control of the sat - you were paid to put it there, but perhaps they meant for you to leave it there lol...

Does this seem abusive to you guys, or normal?

I wouldn't want to have dozens of useless satellites in orbit. But if the probe would be completely removed after you put it into the correct orbit and got your pay, that I wouldn't mind at all. "Thanks for fulfilling the contract, we'll take it from here."

[moronwrocket]

That makes for a nice difficulty switch - contract vessels disappear on contract completion. Would need logic to make sure you don't lose kerbals...Or maybe create contracts that require you to leave certain kerbals on that vessel? IE, contract to create 5 man station, with 1 pilot and 2 scientists (who are provided in your roster, like tourists).

[Kerr_]

LOL, is this seriously still exploitable in 1.0.2?

... yes

[Wesreidau]

Is it an exploit? They want a thermometer at 100k equatorial for ten seconds and I gave it to them. Now I've got someone who wants it polar at 1000k for ten seconds. If they wanted more time out of it they should have specified.

[Renegrade]

LOL, is this seriously still exploitable in 1.0.2?

Like I said before, this is a killer, epic 0.27 or 0.28 (number depends on whether or not you consider ARM to be it's own full version or not~). Not so much of a killer 1.0.

[X-SR71]

I'd rather leave a satellite in orbit of each moon and simply exploit the 'transmit science from xxx' contracts..

[Snark]

One type of mission that I always wished they would have, which would also nicely deal with this type of "exploit" (if you call it that): Procedural commercial payloads.

It would work like this:

The contract is to "Put Company X's specific payload piece into such-and-such situation (specific orbit, surface of Mun, whatever)." If you accept the contract, then when you go to the VAB/SPH, that part shows up on the "Commercial Payloads" tab. The part has the following characteristics:

- It's a procedurally generated part that has a generic gizmo look, for example a cylinder with top/bottom attachment nodes. The size, shape, mass would be part of the randomness of the contract. (You'd see the numbers in the contract UI before accepting, i.e. "this payload is N tons, is diameter X and length Y". More awkward payloads would be worth more funds.)

- You can only get one of it (it's in limited supply).

- The default spacecraft icon for a vehicle that has a commercial part on it could be something custom and different which signifies "commercial payload."

The contract would be to put that specific part into whatever orbit (or other situation) designated. It means you have to design a custom spacecraft around that part, and you can't have one ship satisfying multiple contracts unless you make it move multiple payloads (which is a valid option, and presents design challenges of itself).

The fun part would be having occasional freakishly awkward payloads, e.g.: super dense; big & draggy but super light; really long and skinny; unable to tolerate high acceleration; etc.

[Hannu]

I feel like the sat missions should somehow remove control of the sat - you were paid to put it there, but perhaps they meant for you to leave it there lol...

Does this seem abusive to you guys, or normal?

If you feel that it is wrong you can just roleplay. I do so. I leave business satellites on their orbits and mark them as debris. Sometimes I use paid stations, if they are suitable in my needs. This is computer game and not serious business.

In my opinion SQUAD should concentrate to other things than disable every way to abuse game mechanics. There are more severe bugs and problems in physics and game mechanics. But I suggest that satellite contracts should give some "black box" with size, mass and strength. Player would get money when that box is separated from player's craft on correct orbit.

[itstimaifool]

The contract is to "Put Company X's specific payload piece into such-and-such situation (specific orbit, surface of Mun, whatever)." If you accept the contract, then when you go to the VAB/SPH, that part shows up on the "Commercial Payloads" tab. The part has the following characteristics:

I definitely love this idea. If not a procedurally generated part, then at least like a subassembly with randomly-chosen parts.

Either this, or make the satellite disappear (or at least become uncontrollable) once the contract is fulfilled.

But either way, it's a single-player game, so everyone's free to do what they want. I personally have 'abused' this a few times when I was short on cash, but I try not to do it too often. (When I have done it, I like to imagine the company that paid to put the satellite in orbit being really confused when it suddenly left its orbit to go to the Mun. "What are you doing with our satellite?!" "Read the contract. We said we'd put it there, not keep it there." *Kerbal lawyers snicker in the background*)

[Joonatan1998]

I think it is harder to do many satellite contracts with one rocket.

Using a new rocket for each one just means more grind.

But adding a black box like part for the contracts would be good.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Joonatan1998

[Sirrobert]

On hard career mode != Sandbox game anymore I think.

Skyrim and GTA are also sandboxes. A sandbox does not mean no rules

[malkuth]

I wouldn't want to have dozens of useless satellites in orbit. But if the probe would be completely removed after you put it into the correct orbit and got your pay, that I wouldn't mind at all. "Thanks for fulfilling the contract, we'll take it from here."

You can do that yourself. Once done with the mission set the Satellite as debris. Eventually it will be deleted if you don't have unlimited objects set.

[Caelib]

Using one satellite for multiple destinations isn't exploiting ... it's being EFFICIENT! Let's examine just one real-world example of this (Cassini) that mainly did this for gravity assists, but science was collected:

Now mind you, this is just the processing of getting to Saturn. Once it arrived, it did this:

Work smarter, not harder.

[itstimaifool]

~Cassini~

That's a fair point. However, you could also use realism to argue the opposite point. If two different countries on opposite sides of the Earth want to launch a satellite into geosynchronous orbit above their country, you can't really do that with one satellite at all.

[Luckless]

I also like the idea of a specific 'mission part', and would say go even further with them: Maintenance/upkeep missions. You would not only be asked to place specific parts in a specified orbit, but will also eventually generate secondary missions from them, go swap 'data' or 'parts' from them, that you have to take up and either do it with an EVA or a robot.

Could even have a procedural station system, where you're tasked to move pre-generated modules. (Or maybe not fully procedural, but rather a community driven system where users can submit a section design that can be approved and pushed out to the general userbase and the system then pulls parts out of the pool as needed.)

This could even go a step further for a PvE element options: An AI agency or two that will pick up contracts if you don't. Players would have another element to factor into their decision making: Do I skip all of these contracts, and risk letting the 'AI' company snag them and pull ahead in prestige?

I don't see anything wrong with missions that can be completed with a multi-mission vessel, but I think it needs to be contrasted with ones that take specific and dedicated craft or sub craft.

[Caelib]

That's a fair point. However, you could also use realism to argue the opposite point. If two different countries on opposite sides of the Earth want to launch a satellite into geosynchronous orbit above their country, you can't really do that with one satellite at all.

Agreed.

[mikegarrison]

LOL, is this seriously still exploitable in 1.0.2?

I don't think it is an exploit at all. I think it's part of the fun. It's a mini grand tour. You have to plan out where you want your probe to go, choose the sequence that costs the least dV, then execute it.

For instance, let's say you have a polar orbit, a low equatorial orbit, and a high equatorial orbit. I would probably take off for the low equatorial orbit first, then boost out for the high orbit, then change to a highly elliptical polar orbit to save dome dV on the plane change, then match the desired polar orbit, and then (optionally) come home.

I think it's fun planning and executing these sequences.

Counter to this, I think it's stupid that if you already have functioning space station in orbit, and you get a contract to have a bigger space station, you can't meet it just by adding on to your existing station.

[LN400]

Personally I really don't consider it a cheat to do multiple missions with one satelite. The key thing is that once you launch the satelite, that satelite is not available for later contracts. To me that sounds both reasonable and plausible. To me, cheating would be if you could use the old sat for new contracts. That would imply that the manufacturer of the sat somehow managed to peek into the future and equip the sat for future missions. Beside, it's not like I have 10-20 contracts that can be covered with one sat when I launch it. More like 2-3 if I'm lucky with the orbits. Leaving only one around each body to send back data (again, plausible) I then scrap the rest when I'm done with them.

[SelectHalfling0]

That's not cheating, thats an accomplishment.