Getting the Wheesley to higher altitude

[cephalo]

A lot of my nav targets in contracts are fairly high altitude (~17000+), and I could probably do them with rockets but a reusable plane would be better. I have been stubbornly trying and failing to exceed 13000 meters with my only jet engine, which so far is the Wheesley. I've tried large wing surfaces and 6 intake scoops (I only have the earliest one) but nothing has worked so far.

It's hard to tell when you're learning what contracts are actually feasable with your current resources. I'm finding that a lot of them require specially made craft which lowers the benefit of such contracts quite a bit sometimes.

Edited May 5, 2015 by cephalo

[Reddeyfish]

most people have done it by attaching rockets to their planes. (the radial 'Thud' rocket works rather well for this)

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most people have done it by attaching rockets to their planes. (the radial 'Thud' rocket works rather well for this if you have it)

[cephalo]

most people have done it by attaching rockets to their planes. (the radial 'Thud' rocket works rather well for this if you have it)

That was going to be my next try actually. My concern is burning through my fuel slow enough to complete my missions. In my limited experience, rockets don't last long.

[Andersenman]

No amount of intakes will help you anymore, that's a thing of the past. The Wheesley doesn't lose thrust because it has not enough IntakeAir, the Wheesley loses thrust because it's defined to do so.

[Invader Jim]

If you have both the Wheesley and the Thud, is there any way to control throttles independently? Do you just use the jet engine until 10K or so and then kick on the rocket? I need to give this engine combination a try and see if the rocket has enough range for where I need to go.

[Nutter]

My concern is burning through my fuel slow enough to complete my missions. In my limited experience, rockets don't last long.

Climb to max operational altitude, dive to gain speed, then fling yourself on a ballistic trajectory, kicking in the rockets as your engine stalls?

Guessing you should be able to to get ~5km that way without a serious issue. But you'll need to time the manoeuvre right, and I'm guessing you might need to make sure the plane can handle it.

[cephalo]

No amount of intakes will help you anymore, that's a thing of the past. The Wheesley doesn't lose thrust because it has not enough IntakeAir, the Wheesley loses thrust because it's defined to do so.

That's very good to know. There are many bits on the internet about added more air intakes. I wish I had known before taking the contract however.

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I have one more related question. Another issue I have with the radial rocket is the center of thrust will be a bit high, I suppose I need to angle it a bit so that it points away from my CoM? Can I do that in the hangar? Putting a symmetrical pair of rockets on there will certainly burn up my fuel a lot faster. Also, how do I change the prefix of this post to [Answered]?

[Reddeyfish]

That's very good to know. There are many bits on the internet about added more air intakes. I wish I had known before taking the contract however.

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I have one more related question. Another issue I have with the radial rocket is the center of thrust will be a bit high, I suppose I need to angle it a bit so that it points away from my CoM? Can I do that in the hangar? Putting a symmetrical pair of rockets on there will certainly burn up my fuel a lot faster. Also, how do I change the prefix of this post to [Answered]?

you can do it in the hangar with the 'offset' and 'rotate' tools. You'll definitely need to disable angle snap when doing this if you want the CoT to be exactly aligned with CoM.

You're also going to have some interesting control issues when flying it with only one Thud, because while the CoT would be aligned with the CoM, it won't be aligned with the capsule or cockpit. You'd have to point slightly off-target to be able to burn precisely.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Reddeyfish

[Sirrobert]

That's very good to know. There are many bits on the internet about added more air intakes. I wish I had known before taking the contract however.

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I have one more related question. Another issue I have with the radial rocket is the center of thrust will be a bit high, I suppose I need to angle it a bit so that it points away from my CoM? Can I do that in the hangar? Putting a symmetrical pair of rockets on there will certainly burn up my fuel a lot faster. Also, how do I change the prefix of this post to [Answered]?

2 rockets will burn your fuel twice as fast, but since you have twice as much thrust, you can run at only 50% throttle (in effect a single rocket)

[falloutaddict]

I'm guessing you might need to make sure the plane can handle it.

I suppose next your going to want us to install unnecessary safety features to the plane as well such as landing gear and seat belts?

[Andersenman]

2 rockets will burn your fuel twice as fast, but since you have twice as much thrust, you can run at only 50% throttle (in effect a single rocket)

Except that now you have 2 rockets to lug around instead of one.

[Sirrobert]

Except that now you have 2 rockets to lug around instead of one.

True, but radial rockets aren't that heavy.

That's a matter of convinience (2 rockets. no fiddling with CoT) vs efficiency (less mass, but fiddly)

[Nutter]

I suppose next your going to want us to install unnecessary safety features to the plane as well such as landing gear and seat belts?

What would we need those for? We're trying to do science here, not babysit kerbals!

...in fact, dispensing with the landing gear's added drag would be a great idea for that approach!

[Wanderfound]

Having trouble reaching sufficient altitude for those early-game survey contracts? We've gotcha covered...

Kerbodyne Hiflyer. Never let technology slow you down.

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Craft file at https://www.dropbox.com/s/9vptzzhq8knsoaj/Kerbodyne%20Hiflyer.craft?dl=0

[cephalo]

So I ended up going with the symmetrical thud rockets. Jeb couldn't handle the single rocket solution. Very similar to what Wanderfound posted above. Fly to the destination, point up and ignite the rockets.

[Zamolxes77]

Two thuds instead of one? Even one guzzles fuel and oxidizer, I don't see how you can keep two fed to reach 18 km.

Here is my 1st design, only with rudimentary parts - made it to 17km - spined out 3 times in an attempt to reach 18 km.

And here is an advanced version, made when I unlocked the delta wings:

Note that second craft is a multipurpose vehicle, taking a scientist along with the pilot, to reset all those experiments to different biomes. Currently I have it kited with 3 jet engines, just finished a trip to the North Pole, 6 landings and surveys on the way lol. It still uses the 1st set of landing gear you get, which dramatically limits its speed to around 260 m/s, however it can reach mach 1, compared to 1st design but the landing gear will heat up and explode if you sustain speeds over 260 m/s.

The middle jet and the 2 aviation fuel tanks can be swapped out for 2x fl-200 and a thud engine - carefully installed and "sunk" into the fuel tank, make sure you have center of mass and trust turned on, to line them up properly.

[Wanderfound]

Two thuds instead of one? Even one guzzles fuel and oxidizer, I don't see how you can keep two fed to reach 18 km.

Don't light the rockets until you've got as much altitude as possible from the jet, and climb steeply while the rockets are running.

[Slam_Jones]

http://i.imgur.com/YrMvrCU.jpg

Don't light the rockets until you've got as much altitude as possible from the jet, and climb steeply while the rockets are running.

Is that two Thuds and a TurboJet?

I was fantastic at making SSTO spaceplanes in 0.90, but have been struggling in 1.0, so I might kinda steal that engine set-up...

[Motokid600]

Make sure you don't climb too steeply. The current atmosphere is really forgiving, but you do want to preserve some horizontal velocity. Because if you fall straight back down chances are you'll go into a yaw rates. Granted like I said the not-so-realistic atmosphere can save you from that, but it's good practice should it get better in the coming updates.

[Wanderfound]

Is that two Thuds and a TurboJet?

I was fantastic at making SSTO spaceplanes in 0.90, but have been struggling in 1.0, so I might kinda steal that engine set-up...

Two Thuds and a basic jet. All low-tech parts, designed for one suborbital hop or multiple boosts to 20,000m.

For actual spaceplanes, see http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/90747-Kerbodyne-SSTO-Division-Omnibus-Thread?p=1897125&viewfull=1#post1897125 and http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/90747-Kerbodyne-SSTO-Division-Omnibus-Thread?p=1877990&viewfull=1#post1877990

Edited May 6, 2015 by Wanderfound