Official FAR Craft Repository

[Hodo]

9 minutes ago, kcs123 said:

That method worked well for me too in KSP 1.0.5. But in KSP 1.1.2. things are a lot different. Craft properly slow down. at 30 km I'm at 5 mach or less. Problem is that cockpit still overheat too much. It need additional radiators near cockpit to keep it cool. Even slight mistake in re-entry profile lead to ka-boom. I want larger error margines, as I'm not always precise in piloting procedure.

On your de-orbital burn what altitude do you set your PE at?  Mine is usually 5km above the ground about 100km east of the KSC.

[kcs123]

4 minutes ago, Hodo said:

On your de-orbital burn what altitude do you set your PE at?  Mine is usually 5km above the ground about 100km east of the KSC.

In KSP 1.0.5 I was using ~25 km for PE, never have even smallest issue with overheating. Now, I have everything between 25 and 40 km for PE. When I use low PE, cockpit burn out quickly. With higher altitudes it slowly heating, but it does not cool down and eventualy it explode. Only, it takes longer for it. I'm trying with additional radiators to see if it helps.

[Hodo]

22 minutes ago, kcs123 said:

In KSP 1.0.5 I was using ~25 km for PE, never have even smallest issue with overheating. Now, I have everything between 25 and 40 km for PE. When I use low PE, cockpit burn out quickly. With higher altitudes it slowly heating, but it does not cool down and eventualy it explode. Only, it takes longer for it. I'm trying with additional radiators to see if it helps.

Are you using any type of airbrakes?  And what is your AoA on decent, and the rate of decent.  Because it sounds like you are not able to scrub the speed fast enough before you overheat.   This is more of an approach error than a design error.  

 

I really need to record one of my re-entry flights to give an example. 

[kcs123]

1 hour ago, Hodo said:

Are you using any type of airbrakes?  And what is your AoA on decent, and the rate of decent.  Because it sounds like you are not able to scrub the speed fast enough before you overheat.   This is more of an approach error than a design error.  

Starting re-entry at 30-40 AoA, craft is capable to maintain it down to ~50km. Then shallowed down to 15-20 AoA as atmosphere become thicker.
I'm trying with 6 stock airbrakes ( 3 per wing) just above flaps. Tried in combination with and without flaps. I'm still didn't exehausted all of options.

Yes, it is more likely approach error than design error, as I said, need to learn again proper re-entry procedure. Once I figure out what is good re-entry, piloting wise, then I can do small tweaks on design to improve it. All of that require a lot of test flights.

[Hodo]

Just now, kcs123 said:

Starting re-entry at 30-40 AoA, craft is capable to maintain it down to ~50km. Then shallowed down to 15-20 AoA as atmosphere become thicker.
I'm trying with 6 stock airbrakes ( 3 per wing) just above flaps. Tried in combination with and without flaps. I'm still didn't exehausted all of options.

Yes, it is more likely approach error than design error, as I said, need to learn again proper re-entry procedure. Once I figure out what is good re-entry, piloting wise, then I can do small tweaks on design to improve it. All of that require a lot of test flights.

Sounds odd, because most of my craft can handle a bit shallower AoA and still come in just fine when down to 30km or less.   But I also sit at 40-50km for about half the globe before I start the final decent.   It burns off quite a bit of speed when I maintain a slow decent.   If I get time tonight I will try and post pics or get a recording and upload it of one of my flights to orbit and back on one of my newer craft. 

[Van Disaster]

I just video'd an up & down, but the encoder turned most of it into blocks :S teething issues with new-OBS I guess. I de-orbited about half a globe from KSC & dropped down to about 38km - holding 10 deg pitch kept me floating up & down around that alt for quite a while, until I'd dropped enough speed to start descending again. The cockpit skin temp got to about 4/5ths the bar but the core temp never really got above half, and the rest of the ship just gradually heated but wasn't ever going to be a problem.

I missed KSC by 200km, but that's just a matter of working out where to deorbit

[kcs123]

I just did it first normal re-entry. I was slightly adjusted craft, making tail 2m longer and slightly more dihedrial on main wings to improve stability in uper atmosphere.
Also have two large radiators on cockpit, but I didn't activated on re-entry, don't know if that helped to protect cockpit in heating (less cockpit surface exposed to airstream).

PE on re-entry was around 35km. Heated up cockpit similar as Van Disaster, around 4/5 of maximum. Missed KSC for about 600 km, but that is not much of problem, it is just about finding proper landing spot for PE.

Can't record video (lack of proper software and HDD space) but here are some screenshots.

 

Oh, and don't mid, that SABRE PreCooler, I added some features for it, but those were not used on re-entry. That is some small hacky way to create working cooler/compressor. You can find WIP config part info in B9 thread if you are interested.

Still, can't get away from feeling that is so easy to make pilot mistake on re-entry. Need to repeat everything with full cargo bays.

Edited May 28, 2016 by kcs123

[Hodo]

Ok not having time to do the SSTO re-entry yet... but managed to take 30min and get some pics of my F-305 fighter, with variable geometry wings.

Did I mention it is FAST at low altitude.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Hodo

[Van Disaster]

Managed to successfully film an out & back, split into two because I had to go and do something else in the middle - which caused a slight problem to the mission...

Outbound was as nearly trouble-free as it gets; I got the profile ever so slightly wrong & had to adjust before transition, but wasn't even a small deal. I didn't film takeoff because one of the visual mods is caning my framerate near KSC at the moment.

Spoiler

 

I didn't actually use SmartASS surf mode, it was there for emergency use because I haven't got the pilot assistant profile right yet.

So, I paused the game, went away, came back, unpaused it & had to go away again, so I overshot my deorbit point by just a bit still, descent was also completely drama-free otherwise. Slowing down after the final turn was to allow me to check subsonic trim while I still had altitude to recover from any issues.

 

Spoiler

 

I also underestimated the craft's ability to slow down at slower speeds, so I had to go around for landing. Next time around was simple & fuss-free too.

Spoiler

 

So, yes - spaceplanes seem easier these days, not sure why. That one needs bigger airbrakes, but otherwise given I hardly tuned it at all it works rather well. Mods used which mattered - B9, B9 pWings, Pilot Assistant, MJ, KerbalFlightData ( now with handy temperature display ) and Chatterer.

[kcs123]

Nice videos and nice SSTO too. That S3 cockpit is one of reason why you didn't encountered issues. It have 2700K temperature limit. I have discovered issues with new Mk2b cockpits that have max temerature around 2200K. That is even lower than stock Mk2 cockpit. It also have low mass(meaning low heat capacity).

Anyway, I solved my issues by creating more stable crafts capable to sustain high AoA on re-entry, without RCS, I use those mainly for docking. Those videos will not be futile, it will help someone else that search for tips.

[Van Disaster]

Yeah - I have Mk1 cockpit craft also which are somewhat borderline - but I'm pretty sure I never went over 2300k, and I could have kept it cooler with a shallower profile & bigger brakes. TBH I'd mod the Mk2 pit for higher temps given it's meant to be a spaceplane part rather than like the Mk1 bizjet piece...

Edited May 29, 2016 by Van Disaster

[kcs123]

It's not only skin temperature that matters, inner, core heat capacity is important too. Skin temerature is more important when you have rapid heating, high temerature but in short timeframe. Inner, core temperature, is more important if you "cook" cockpit trough longer timeframe. Depending how shallow ascent profile is and TWR capabilites is on the way up. On re-entry, if you choose shallower re-entry, skin temperature won't be too high, but since re-entry longer, inner temperature might go too high as well.

Everything is slightly different from 1.0.5., so re-entry procedure need to be adjusted and/or craft design. I don't feel that creating good SSTO become easier, it's just that we become more experienced building it and have more nice mods to choose from.

[Guest]

21 hours ago, Van Disaster said:

Managed to successfully film an out & back, split into two because I had to go and do something else in the middle - which caused a slight problem to the mission...

Outbound was as nearly trouble-free as it gets; I got the profile ever so slightly wrong & had to adjust before transition, but wasn't even a small deal. I didn't film takeoff because one of the visual mods is caning my framerate near KSC at the moment.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I didn't actually use SmartASS surf mode, it was there for emergency use because I haven't got the pilot assistant profile right yet.

So, I paused the game, went away, came back, unpaused it & had to go away again, so I overshot my deorbit point by just a bit still, descent was also completely drama-free otherwise. Slowing down after the final turn was to allow me to check subsonic trim while I still had altitude to recover from any issues.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I also underestimated the craft's ability to slow down at slower speeds, so I had to go around for landing. Next time around was simple & fuss-free too.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

So, yes - spaceplanes seem easier these days, not sure why. That one needs bigger airbrakes, but otherwise given I hardly tuned it at all it works rather well. Mods used which mattered - B9, B9 pWings, Pilot Assistant, MJ, KerbalFlightData ( now with handy temperature display ) and Chatterer.

Could you share the craft file?

[OrbitalBuzzsaw]

On May 14, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Surefoot said:

Any mod out there has proper intakes usable for hypersonic ? Stock ones are too blunt, and will overheat quickly - even on the shock cone intake, the cone is not tall enough. B9 intakes were properly done, but that mod is either gone or not coming soon. I'm playing with a few designs that can easily fly at mach 5+ (i'll post a few here) but my only problem now is the air intakes

B9 is good in the new version

[Hodo]

So testing out a "switchblade" variable geometry wing design SSTO... and it actually works QUITE well.

SP-170 Switchblade.

Even managed to put it into a spin thanks to my own fat fingures and recovered quite easily.

[Van Disaster]

On 29/05/2016 at 9:11 PM, kcs123 said:

It's not only skin temperature that matters, inner, core heat capacity is important too. Skin temerature is more important when you have rapid heating, high temerature but in short timeframe. Inner, core temperature, is more important if you "cook" cockpit trough longer timeframe. Depending how shallow ascent profile is and TWR capabilites is on the way up. On re-entry, if you choose shallower re-entry, skin temperature won't be too high, but since re-entry longer, inner temperature might go too high as well.

Everything is slightly different from 1.0.5., so re-entry procedure need to be adjusted and/or craft design. I don't feel that creating good SSTO become easier, it's just that we become more experienced building it and have more nice mods to choose from.

I just brought this thing down without skin temp over 1750 ( that cockpit limit is 2000 )- not sure what the core got to because it didn't even pop a temperature meter & I don't have a plugin to show it atm. I just let it cruse down at 15-18deg aoa & it was quite happy. Career mode, I don't have radiators yet.

@RevanCorana it's a prototype, needs a fair bit of work still... I'll link it to you when I've tidied it a bit.

@Hodointeresting looking thing, which hinges are you using?

Edited May 30, 2016 by Van Disaster

[Hodo]

14 minutes ago, Van Disaster said:

@RevanCorana

 

@Hodointeresting looking thing, which hinges are you using?

IR rotatron hinges.  They have a 99m/s impact rating which makes them quite strong, and when mated with increased wing strength of the wings from the stock 1.0 to 1.3 for the wings that move, actually reduces the flex on the wings.  They still flex and it has a g-force limit of about 8-9gs before they will snap.  But this isnt a fighter craft but a test SSTO.   I modeled it after the Northrop Switchblade...

 

Edited May 30, 2016 by Hodo

[Van Disaster]

Hmm, must give IR another go then.

Launching spaceplanes with the really early part of the tech tree is not easy... the flight up there was literally "moar boosters!", but I thought I'd attempt something more sophisticated. It made it to space once but wow this is awkward ... more fun than the contracts the game is trying to serve up at least.

Anyone else who's done this, I'd love some tips about safer & more controlled seperation from the carrier - at the moment they just want to dance, there's no way to automate the carrier into pulling up at seperation ( I don't have action groups open yet either ).

 

 

[Hodo]

@Van Disaster  I had a system like that once, I found if you placed the carrier craft that gets you to altitude under the space plane you can clear it pretty easily.   That or you place it on either side but then you run into flex issues. 

 

 

[Van Disaster]

1 hour ago, Hodo said:

@Van Disaster  I had a system like that once, I found if you placed the carrier craft that gets you to altitude under the space plane you can clear it pretty easily.   That or you place it on either side but then you run into flex issues. 

Yeah, the thought occurred to me I had it upsideown. I didn't want to use something either side because I've done that in the past, and it is a nightmare.

Incidentally, threw this at the atmosphere pitched at 18 degrees from a low orbit with a 35km peri, and didn't even have to touch it again; cockpit temp never made it over 1700 once more.

Edit: found one thing that helped with the carrier: I added flap deflection for the elevators to the staging AG & just reset the flaps after the initial stage on the runway. Problem with an under-carrier is the spaceplane just flops on it after detaching...

Edited May 31, 2016 by Van Disaster

[Hodo]

I would use a pair of sepetrons aimed to push the carrier away from the craft.  Down is the easiest. 

[Van Disaster]

In the end I just rebuilt the carrier completely into something that can also handle larger craft, and that seems to be working better. Less chance of getting hung up on the engines too.

Now I have to persuade StageRecovery to pick the carrier up...

Edited May 31, 2016 by Van Disaster

[kcs123]

@Hodo, and @varsass inspired me to create reusable variable geometry wing IR assembly. Not a best aircraft that I ever created, but whole system works pretty well. Woobling of wings is minimized, I was have more problem on other aircraft parts than wing itself. You don't need to deattach wing part, you can reshape B9 to personal liking for all kind of aircraft. I was aiming for medium to large size aicraft with this, whole IR section is a bit too wide for small aircrafts.

 

Anyhow, I described how I build whole thing, some issues that I encountered and how I was able to solve problems. Might help someone.

[Hodo]

@kcs123 I like the work on that craft, but it seems a bit overly complex for a small craft.  I may mess around with the concept a bit when I get some time and see if I can find a "happy" medium.  

 

This version of KSP I am trying to stay mostly stock parts.  Just IR, MJ, KER, BDArmory  and FAR.   I may download TAC Fuel balancer again because that was just useful. 

Edited May 31, 2016 by Hodo

[kcs123]

Agree, for small craft you might want something more simplified, but I'm aiming for larger sized craft than shown on picture. It is a bit tricky to find out proper angle for extractors, but after few tries it is much less of problem. For smaler craft, bearings should be closer to hull, I will try to recreate something similar, for smaler craft and with fewer parts.

Whole point is to create reusable system trough assembly, so you don't need to create everything from strach. Also, when you have wing attached on 3 places instead of one, it behave much better when comes to woobling. Anyhow, whole thing is still WIP, varsass gave me few good tips that I might want to try.