[DEVTHREAD]Pathfinder - Space Camping & Geoscience

[rasta013]

Looks great! For uneven terrain, try looking at the ground where ground textures meet and avoid those junctions. My test base is on a hill and I have no problems. I also have some ideas on how to avoid the need to bolt saddles to the ground but they will take awhile to build.

I'll do that and see how it helps. That last suggestion about the lights and dropping them first has paid off well since then so we'll see. If you can figure out a way to avoid the bolting I think it would be a fantastic development. I was thinking about this today and had the idea that you might look at EPL and how Taniwha is doing his launch pad for some possible ways to accomplish it. I can land that pretty much anywhere without landing legs and have never had a problem with it. Don't know what kind of magic he's doing to pull that off but whatever it is it certainly works.

[Angelo Kerman]

My test base has new additions:

The Doc needs a bit of texture work, but it's good to go. But more importantly, get the latest here!

0.7.0: The Magificent Seven

youtube: Magnificent Seven Theme

NOTE: Please pack up your base before applying this update, there were a lot of changes under the hood.

NOTE: Please be sure to update your OSEWorkshop to the very latest version.

For science! The Gold Digger generates experiment results while taking core samples. Those results are now worth more than just their Science value; you can use them to improve the efficiency of your habitation, science, and industry processors. In other words, creating RocketParts, MaterialKits, ResearchKits, Water, and others will be improved if you have good results when performing your soil analysis, metallurgic analysis, or chemical analysis in the Geology Lab. And with the Geology Lab’s new Biome Analysis, you can either use the research to improve your production abilities within the biome, or transfer the data to the new Doc Commercial Science Lab. It will cost you Science to perform a Biome Analysis, but you stand to gain much more.

New Parts

- Added the Doc Commercial Science Lab. This is a new multipurpose laboratory. With the Doc Commercial Science Lab, developed in partnership with the Rasta Engineering Group (thanks rasta013 for the lab configs!), you get a Mobile Processing Lab equivalent that can do more than just process experiments for Science over time; you can publish the research for Reputation, or sell the research for Funds. You can also reconfigure the lab into the Sunburn pellet lab, and produce FusionPellets and Coolant for your fusion needs. And finally, you can retool it into the Watney Chemistry Lab, named after a fictional character that finds creative survival solutions through chemistry.

- Added the Hacienda Inflatable Multipurpose Factory. The Hacienda meets your industrial needs by providing the Ironworks, where you can smelt Metals from MetallicOre and create RocketParts from Metals. If you have Extraplanetary Launchpads installed, then you'll also get the Fireworks Survey Station, where you can build vessels. Also you smelt Metal from MetalOre, and fabricate RocketParts from Metal instead of using MetallicOre and Metals. Be sure to bring some survey stakes and a mallet. And if you have OSE Workshop installed, then you'll get the Clockworks, which lets you 3D print parts in larger volumes than the Blacksmith, and you can retool the printers to use RocketParts instead of MaterialKits (or vice versa). Additionally, with OSE Workshop installed, the Ironworks lets you produce MaterialKits, and convert between MaterialKits and RocketParts.

Saddle

- Updated config file to reflect the latest KIS.

Storage Templates

- Added templates for Metals and MetallicOre. These will turn into Metal and MetalOre with Extraplanetary Launchpads installed.

Ponderosa & Buckboard

- Now you can stack the Ponderosa and Buckboard on top of each other via convienient stacking nodes.

Ponderosa Templates

- Geology Lab: Added the ability to generate a Biome Analysis. Be sure to carefully read the tooltip.

- The Geology Lab can use core samples to perform a soil analysis, metallurgic analysis, or chemical analysis. A Soil analysis improves production efficiency for life support (coming soon!), a metallurgic analysis improves fabrication processors (Ironworks), and a chemical analysis improves chemical processors (Watney lab, Sunburn lab).

- When unlocking a biome for the first time and generating Science in the process, the Geology Lab will use the stock experiment results dialog to display the fruits of your labor.

- The Geology Lab can uplink to an orbiting T.E.R.R.A.I.N. equipped satellite/station to check on its status and switch to the vessel as desired.

TERRAIN

- Added a "Review Data" button to review the Science collected by the TERRAIN. It will display the stock experiment results dialog.

- Added some feedback fields to the right-click menu.

Gaslight, Ponderosa, Chuckwagon

- Added ability to toggle the lights via Lights action group.

Bug Fixes

- Fixed an issue where you'd see "No need to reconfigure to the same module type" when switching templates.

- Fixed an issue with the Gold Digger's ability to know which tech node activates its ability to drill for resources.

- Fixed an issue preventing the Blacksmith from printing parts. (NOTE: You'll need the latest version of OSEWorkshop as well)

Recommended Mods

Extraplanetary Launchpads: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/59545-1-0-4-Extraplanetary-Launchpads-v5-2-1

And I'm already starting to work on the next update. Here's a teaser:

[rasta013]

FANTASTIC!!! I'll be sure to start pounding away on this immediately.

[rasta013]

Didn't get as much chance to work on testing yesterday as I wanted but started getting into it pretty well today. A first question/suggestion that I see is regarding the Hacienda. EL has a number of ways that it can be setup to run with other mods. With MKS it has an extensive chain of parts construction that involves many levels of item construction in order to complete rockets. If you play with straight stock, you can add in a simple MM patch from ToxicFrog that converts the EL production chain from using MetalOre to running everything off the stock ISRU and Ore. So the question/suggestion I have - is there any way for you to detect whether these types of setups are installed by someone in order to match the Hacienda to that production chain? I ask because if you're using MKS and want to run Pathfinder along with it (a great combo I might add) then all of a sudden the entire production chain for MKS was eliminated because the Hacienda restores the original EL functionality.

Now, all this said - a qualifier: It is up to the person running MKS to choose to install ToxicFrog's MM patch to convert the EL chain into the MKS chain fully. If you just install MKS and EL, you will have both production lines available, they're just exclusive to each mod's parts. You would be able to build rockets using the EL Workshop/Launchpad LONG before you'd ever get the Orbital Platform and Fabrication Module from MKS. So, I don't know whether you can detect these or not (it sounds complicated now that I write it out) but it's just a thought I had once I started getting the Hacienda setup since I'm currently running with MKS for advanced bases.

Thoughts?

[Angelo Kerman]

Didn't get as much chance to work on testing yesterday as I wanted but started getting into it pretty well today. A first question/suggestion that I see is regarding the Hacienda. EL has a number of ways that it can be setup to run with other mods. With MKS it has an extensive chain of parts construction that involves many levels of item construction in order to complete rockets. If you play with straight stock, you can add in a simple MM patch from ToxicFrog that converts the EL production chain from using MetalOre to running everything off the stock ISRU and Ore. So the question/suggestion I have - is there any way for you to detect whether these types of setups are installed by someone in order to match the Hacienda to that production chain? I ask because if you're using MKS and want to run Pathfinder along with it (a great combo I might add) then all of a sudden the entire production chain for MKS was eliminated because the Hacienda restores the original EL functionality.

Now, all this said - a qualifier: It is up to the person running MKS to choose to install ToxicFrog's MM patch to convert the EL chain into the MKS chain fully. If you just install MKS and EL, you will have both production lines available, they're just exclusive to each mod's parts. You would be able to build rockets using the EL Workshop/Launchpad LONG before you'd ever get the Orbital Platform and Fabrication Module from MKS. So, I don't know whether you can detect these or not (it sounds complicated now that I write it out) but it's just a thought I had once I started getting the Hacienda setup since I'm currently running with MKS for advanced bases.

Thoughts?

Good question. The short answer is yes, but it's impractical for me to try and detect all the different MM patches that may come along. The Hacienda is self-contained in terms of producing RocketParts. Without anything installed but Pathfinder and CRP, you produce RocketParts via MetallicOre->Metals->RocketParts, which is the closest I can get to EL's current production chain using just CRP. EL currently defaults to MetalOre->Metal->RocketParts. That production chain is what EL users are accustomed to, and I go by what EL uses if EL is installed. To accommodate other production chains, the best thing to do is create a ModuleManager patch that works with the Ironworks template. In fact, that's what I do when EL is installed; the patch modifies the Ironworks template to use EL's resource chain instead of the CRP default. Next release I'll make it easier by having a separate MM patch that tweaks the MetallicOre and Metals templates as well as the Ironworks template, all in one place, so you could change Pathfinder's production chain for EL depending upon what mod you have installed.

FYI, The point might become moot in the future if EL changes its production chain to be more in line with MKS. If EL's chain does change, Pathfinder will follow suit.

Hope that answers your questions.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Angel-125

[RoverDude]

The rub with an updated EL chain is that Taniwha has stated he'll have different modes (easy/hard/etc.) with potentially different resource chains.

I'm working with ObiVanDamme on getting OSE and MKS in lockstep, then it's just a matter of adding a config that changes up the EL chain, especially since Taniwha is adding recipes (which makes all of this a lot easier).

My intent then would be to drop in the alternate EL chain as a stand-alone, either as a shim in CRP or just a loose config other folks can borrow.

[rasta013]

Yes - very good detailed answer and for now I'll whip up an MM patch to convert at least for stock and see what I can do about something for MKS as well. It doesn't really bother me one way or the other and was more a curiosity thing about how it might work behind the scenes anyway.

Edit: So I just started digging into the cfgs for the various workshop templates and noticed that you already have the choice between using either EL's MetalOre or MetallicOre from UKS for your conversion process to Metals.

With this in mind, I'm going to look at doing either a new template or an MM patch for the Hacienda that handles the Rocket Part creation using the full UKS process as well as some storage templates for the various MKS rocket part creation assets. May take me a few days since I'm kinda busy this week but will forward it along to you if you want it once I've got it running.

Edited August 18, 2015 by rasta013

[Angelo Kerman]

Yes - very good detailed answer and for now I'll whip up an MM patch to convert at least for stock and see what I can do about something for MKS as well. It doesn't really bother me one way or the other and was more a curiosity thing about how it might work behind the scenes anyway.

Edit: So I just started digging into the cfgs for the various workshop templates and noticed that you already have the choice between using either EL's MetalOre or MetallicOre from UKS for your conversion process to Metals.

With this in mind, I'm going to look at doing either a new template or an MM patch for the Hacienda that handles the Rocket Part creation using the full UKS process as well as some storage templates for the various MKS rocket part creation assets. May take me a few days since I'm kinda busy this week but will forward it along to you if you want it once I've got it running.

Good deal. Subject to change, here are the edited storage templates for MetallicOre and Metals (they come from CRP) as well as the Ironworks and the MM patch for EL. That might help you get a head start.

[rasta013]

Good deal. Subject to change, here are the edited storage templates for MetallicOre and Metals (they come from CRP) as well as the Ironworks and the MM patch for EL. That might help you get a head start.

Cool thanks! And yes, that will help jump start it. Essentially the intention is to duplicate the Rocket Parts production chain from the Fabricator using Metals/Chemicals/Polymers and probably a second template also for the Hacienda to allow production of those materials. Not sure about the second part though since the intention of the Fabrication Module is to push the production of off-world construction deeper into the tree than EL permits. Maybe make it less efficient than the MK-V gear since it would be obtained 1 tier earlier (which means 1 R&D Building upgrade earlier too). Not sure, I'll play around with it and see what I can come up with.

[Angelo Kerman]

Cool thanks! And yes, that will help jump start it. Essentially the intention is to duplicate the Rocket Parts production chain from the Fabricator using Metals/Chemicals/Polymers and probably a second template also for the Hacienda to allow production of those materials. Not sure about the second part though since the intention of the Fabrication Module is to push the production of off-world construction deeper into the tree than EL permits. Maybe make it less efficient than the MK-V gear since it would be obtained 1 tier earlier (which means 1 R&D Building upgrade earlier too). Not sure, I'll play around with it and see what I can come up with.

Sounds good. As it stands now, the Hacienda is available at advanced metal works, so that's later in the tech tree than EL's advanced construction. That might be a factor as well.

[Overjay]

the Watney Chemistry Lab

Dude, you're getting better and better! Keep it up this way

[Angelo Kerman]

http://frpnet.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/marsli-mark-watney.jpg

Dude, you're getting better and better! Keep it up this way

Thanks! Pretty cool picture, too. Progress this week is going well thanks to the work I did for the most recent release. I have some new fun stuff in the works.

[Life on Europa]

finally i got some time for ksp,and i always wanted to try this mod and go full time play with it but i got a question is this stand alone mod? or you must have MKS/OKS for this mod?

[rasta013]

No MKS is not a requirement - only KIS/KAS is required. While you don't have to have it, OSE Workshop will enhance your experience with the mod and so will Extraplanetary Launchpads. Technically, neither of them are requirements but templates for the Hacienda are based around both of those and the Blacksmith template for the Ponderosa is for OSE Workshop. Without those two mods the Hacienda is going to be there for nothing but looks and the Ponderosa will be functional only as the Geology Lab and Habitat.

The MKS discussion going on right now involves me setting up a template that will allow the Hacienda to support the MKS production chain. Templates allow anyone to make the various pieces provide functionality to support other mods.

- - - Updated - - -

Angel, quick question - I noticed in the cfg files for the factory templates that the Clockworks has a requirement of scienceTech while the Ironworks/Fireworks require advMetalworks does this mean that we can set different levels of required tech for each of the templates? If so, this means I could restrict the new Smelting Furnace to the same level tech as the MK-V Smelter I'm looking to reproduce which would solve any kind of production nerfing I might have to consider for making it available earlier in the tree.

- - - Updated - - -

and another question... LOL

I see the WBIEfficiencyMonitor along with harvestType - what exactly are these parameters affecting?

Edited August 20, 2015 by rasta013

[Sampa]

Angel, how do you and other modders get ideas? I was considering eventually giving mod making a try, but can't find a unique idea!

[Angelo Kerman]

finally i got some time for ksp,and i always wanted to try this mod and go full time play with it but i got a question is this stand alone mod? or you must have MKS/OKS for this mod?

Unlike Multipurpose Colony Modules, the predecessor to Pathfinder, Pathfinder runs completely standalone, only depending upon CRP (included) and KIS/KAS. Without any other mods installed, the only template you get with the Hacienda is the Ironworks, where you can build RocketParts from the local resources. You won't see the Clockworks (which needs OSE Workshop), or Fireworks (which needs EL). Similarly, the Ponderosa's Blacksmith won't show up if you don't have OSE Workshop installed.

No MKS is not a requirement - only KIS/KAS is required. While you don't have to have it, OSE Workshop will enhance your experience with the mod and so will Extraplanetary Launchpads. Technically, neither of them are requirements but templates for the Hacienda are based around both of those and the Blacksmith template for the Ponderosa is for OSE Workshop. Without those two mods the Hacienda is going to be there for nothing but looks and the Ponderosa will be functional only as the Geology Lab and Habitat.

The MKS discussion going on right now involves me setting up a template that will allow the Hacienda to support the MKS production chain. Templates allow anyone to make the various pieces provide functionality to support other mods.

- - - Updated - - -

Angel, quick question - I noticed in the cfg files for the factory templates that the Clockworks has a requirement of scienceTech while the Ironworks/Fireworks require advMetalworks does this mean that we can set different levels of required tech for each of the templates? If so, this means I could restrict the new Smelting Furnace to the same level tech as the MK-V Smelter I'm looking to reproduce which would solve any kind of production nerfing I might have to consider for making it available earlier in the tree.

- - - Updated - - -

and another question... LOL

I see the WBIEfficiencyMonitor along with harvestType - what exactly are these parameters affecting?

@rasta013: Looks like I need to update the wiki on how to create a template. My bad.. Anyway, you can restrict a template by tech node by specifying TechRequired, just as you suggested. You can also restrict a template based on the presence of a mod by using the "needs" field (without the quote). Below is an example:

STORAGE_TEMPLATE

{

name = MaterialKits

author = Angel-125

shortName = Material Kits

needs = Workshop

logoPanel = WildBlueIndustries/Pathfinder/Decals/MaterialKits

glowPanel = WildBlueIndustries/Pathfinder/Decals/MaterialKitsGlow

description = This kit stores 3d printing materials.

RESOURCE

{

name = MaterialKits

amount = 5600

maxAmount = 5600

}

}

In the next release, you can restrict individual MODULE nodes in a template by "TechRequired" and "needs" as well. You'll also be able to preface the mod specified in "needs" with a "!" symbol to indicate that the template is available only if the specified mod is not installed.

Don't forget that you can change the decals for the modules too. Pathfinder's logo panels all use the same logo template. Keep your logo inside the circle and they'll show up properly on all the models.

WBIEfficiencyMonitor affects the Efficiency of your ModuleResourceConverters. harvestType specifies the type of resource (0 is planetary) that the efficiency modifier applies to. Currently only planetary resources are supported but there are hooks in place to support other resource types in the future. efficiencyType specifies the type of efficiency to monitor. Currently, Pathfinder has three types: habitation, science, and industry. Any template can use any efficency type, but the baseline is to use habitation for Ponderosa, science for Doc, and industry for Hacienda. That way, you know the basic type of functionality just by looking at the model.

Finally, the efficiency type is mapped to the type of research performed in the geology lab. The Soil Analysis improves/worsens habitation, Chemical Analysis improves/worsens science, and Metallurgic Analysis improves/worsens industry. The modifiers you gain/lose are dependent upon the biome you're currently residing in, so if you pick up and move you will have whole new habitation, science, and industry modifiers in the new biome. If you move back to the old biome, you'll still have the habitation, science and industry modifiers that you researched in the old biome. It's not quite possible to add new efficiency modifiers and research them using config files, but that's in my backlog, and the infrastructure already supports it. I just need to make efficiency research more generic. It's in my backlog...

Hope that helps.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Angel-125

[rasta013]

That is perfect and yes that helps a ton and gives me direction. One last curiosity question regarding the NEEDS parameters - does this mean that you are supporting MM code within the template? If so, that means I've got even MORE flexibility to control exactly when it will appear. Reason I'm wondering is the MK-V modules from MKS appear considerably earlier in the tree if you're not running CTT but if you are, then it actually appears later than when the Ironworks normally would show up. Specifically, the MK-V modules show up under advConstruction (!) if you're not running CTT but if you are, then they show up under the CTT's shortTermHabitation. As such, if the MM code is working the same way as normal, I can add in the nodes to allow it show up at either place based on which mods are installed and that would simply be awesome. If not, it's not a big deal but since the NEEDS is typically an MM expression it made me wonder.

[Angelo Kerman]

Angel, how do you and other modders get ideas? I was considering eventually giving mod making a try, but can't find a unique idea!

That's a good question. Half the fun for me of my art projects- not just KSP mod, but things like my Contact Lost website (www.spellflight.com/ContactLost), is just doing research. I get to learn all kinds of things. That research helps inspire me. Since I'm an Engineer by training and trade, practicing art is a challenge for me, so one thing I do is look at everyday items and try to incorporate them somehow into my designs. For instance, the fusion reactor on one of my Contact Lost ships is inspired by the lid of a KFC mashed potatoes container. My goal is to be as good as somebody like PorkJet or Nertea, in terms of the quality of the textures and the details on the model, and I'm slowly getting there. I'm finding that 3D art a different way of thinking than software engineering. Of course with my designs in KSP, I try for a blend of functional and aesthetic that looks like Squad made the part and coded it. Hope that helps.

That is perfect and yes that helps a ton and gives me direction. One last curiosity question regarding the NEEDS parameters - does this mean that you are supporting MM code within the template? If so, that means I've got even MORE flexibility to control exactly when it will appear. Reason I'm wondering is the MK-V modules from MKS appear considerably earlier in the tree if you're not running CTT but if you are, then it actually appears later than when the Ironworks normally would show up. Specifically, the MK-V modules show up under advConstruction (!) if you're not running CTT but if you are, then they show up under the CTT's shortTermHabitation. As such, if the MM code is working the same way as normal, I can add in the nodes to allow it show up at either place based on which mods are installed and that would simply be awesome. If not, it's not a big deal but since the NEEDS is typically an MM expression it made me wonder.

I created the template system before I ever heard of ModuleManager, so it has different syntax and isn't anywhere near as sophisticated. But I get dynamic templates that can be applied during flight.. However, since I've been adding "name" fields to the templates that MM can pick up on, I've made it easier for MM to look at the template and modify its contents. I rely upon that to add in the extra modules needed for OSE Workshop and EL, for instance. Those pre-release config files are one example. So with MM, you can modify the templates before the game starts, and you can then restrict what templates are available during flight using the fields I mentioned previously.

[rasta013]

I created the template system before I ever heard of ModuleManager, so it has different syntax and isn't anywhere near as sophisticated. But I get dynamic templates that can be applied during flight.. However, since I've been adding "name" fields to the templates that MM can pick up on, I've made it easier for MM to look at the template and modify its contents. I rely upon that to add in the extra modules needed for OSE Workshop and EL, for instance. Those pre-release config files are one example. So with MM, you can modify the templates before the game starts, and you can then restrict what templates are available during flight using the fields I mentioned previously.

Outstanding! I believe that since the NEEDS is working for the mod detection that it will also work for tech node assignment. I've got it included in the templates I'm writing and will test it out to see if it works as I expect. If not, it's not big deal anyway since the difference in nodes when this tech becomes available is not all that great and for stock the standard MK-V parts actually come earlier in the tree than the Hacienda anyway. It's only if CTT is installed that it becomes one node and one upgrade later but it would be cool if this works. Will let you know how it goes after completing these things and testing.

[Angelo Kerman]

Good deal. Also note that you have a form of multiple-inheritance with templates. You can create several template nodes like PATHFINDER, SCIENCELAB, and FACTORY, and in the templateNodes field for your WBIResourceSwitcher, WBIMultipurposeHab, lab, and storage, you can add multiple template types by separating them with a semicolon. For instance, templateNodes = PATHFINDER;STORAGE_TEMPLATE will let you switch between all storage types and all habitation related templates. I used to do that for the old Mk1 Homestead module in MCM.

You can further filter templates of a certain type using the templateTypes field with multiple types separated by a semicolon. One example would be to have two parts that share a common set of SCIENCELAB templates, but one variant of the Doc is designed for the ground while another is designed for orbit. To do that, both parts use the same SCIENCELAB templateNodes but one uses a templateTypes set to ground;common while the other uses orbit;common. You would then add a templateType field to the desired template to identify it.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Angel-125

[ObiVanDamme]

Angel, how do you and other modders get ideas? I was considering eventually giving mod making a try, but can't find a unique idea!

For me it was very simple. After I installed KAS, I wished that KSP had the possibility to create parts in flight, because I forgot to add parts in the VAB or they broke for no obvious reason, or because of my bad pilot skills while landing. I looked fora mod that did that, but could not find one. So I decided to create it.

[RoverDude]

Pretty much the same thing ObiVanDamme said - make stuff you want yourself but can't find a mod for. You are your own main audience, anything else is gravy.

[Angelo Kerman]

Here's a preview of the newest update:

Not much changed, but now all the inflatable modules have connector ports to make it easy to build out your base. And there are a couple of new templates...

[helaeon]

Angel! I have a request... your science lab module is so awesome I think all the science labs should work off it. Would there be a good way to do a MM config that would apply it to other parts that have ModuleScienceConverter? Or, to add it manually via MM patch to named parts? (I'm thinking the MKS pioneer, the stock lab, Kerbal Planetary Base Systems science lab, etc). I'm even thinking maybe differing values. Like the heavier and larger bases may have more storage or a bigger multiplier, but of course less mobile, can't be packed up, etc.

I tried it myself last night and didn't work, so not sure what I was missing out on. I'm more than happy to write the patch and share if that helps things.

[rasta013]

Here's a preview of the newest update:

Not much changed, but now all the inflatable modules have connector ports to make it easy to build out your base. And there are a couple of new templates...

LMAO! You used the recycling icon. I was integrating that into my decal for the Recyclables material then changed it because I was betting that you had it in mind for something either greenhouse or material re-use related. Thank you so much for all the connector ports - that will make laying out bases SOOoooo much easier.

Angel! I have a request... your science lab module is so awesome I think all the science labs should work off it. Would there be a good way to do a MM config that would apply it to other parts that have ModuleScienceConverter? Or, to add it manually via MM patch to named parts? (I'm thinking the MKS pioneer, the stock lab, Kerbal Planetary Base Systems science lab, etc). I'm even thinking maybe differing values. Like the heavier and larger bases may have more storage or a bigger multiplier, but of course less mobile, can't be packed up, etc.

I tried it myself last night and didn't work, so not sure what I was missing out on. I'm more than happy to write the patch and share if that helps things.

I do a ton of work with labs and MM so are you specifically looking at having the pieces from Pathfinder that allow for the Rep/Funds conversion?