Poll, the R.A.P.I.E.R, what do you think it needs

[Screeno]

So what do you all think? Personally i think it could do with a better top speed in atmosphere, perhaps 1400 m/s than the now 1200 m/s, as the real SABRE can go to mach 5, i feel the rapier needs to keep gaining power longer past when turbojets flameout to distinguish itself as a airbreathing engine against the turbojet. at the moment the rapiers airbreathing mode had less thrust and isp than the turbojet, the only advantage is that it peaks at a slightly higher speed. all i think it needs then, is a thrust increase, and a slight top speed increase, that would make it more viable than the turbojet for sstos IMO.

[xtoro]

I think it's fine the way it is!

[Screeno]

but dont you thing it could do with a biiit more speed than the turbojet? just 1400 m/s in atmo maybe?

[sal_vager]

Your speed is more a factor of your drag, you can always add more engines but if you're craft is draggy there's only so much that more power will do for you.

[Guest]

I think it's fine the way it is!

Not empty quoting.

[Screeno]

Your speed is more a factor of your drag, you can always add more engines but if you're craft is draggy there's only so much that more power will do for you.

interesting thought, ill have to see how that does.

[xtoro]

but dont you thing it could do with a biiit more speed than the turbojet? just 1400 m/s in atmo maybe?

No, I think the turbojet should have more punch to it. To me it seems more like a game-balancing thing. Since the RAPIER has 2 modes and can work in space, why would you also make it faster than the turbojet? If it was, nobody would ever use the turbojet... Just like if the nuclear engine has the same thrust as a poodle, nobody would ever use a poodle...

But that's just my 0.02 m/s....

[Screeno]

Well the turbojet would still be better up to mach3 , the rapiers just push to mach 4 they would still be the same other than that I guess. So turbojet would still be better for atmospheric craft due to better isp and thrust at lower mach number

[Teutooni]

Balance-wise I think it's ok. I'd actually reduce the thrust at mach 2-3 a little and maybe compensate with slightly less steep decline in performance at higher altitudes.

[Wanderfound]

Given that the RAPIERs are, if anything, a bit overpowered, they certainly don't need a boost. One RAPIER is enough for most Mk2 ships, and dangerously overpowered (but fun!) for Mk1 planes. Four RAPIERs will easily handle a lumbering Mk3 monstrosity.

One jet:

Two jets:

Three jets:

Four jets:

Edited May 25, 2015 by Wanderfound

[Kuu Lightwing]

Wanderfound, that's FAR. Does not count.

I think we need just a larger one. Because planes with 10 engines on them is not cool and is immersion-breaking.

[Screeno]

Given that the RAPIERs are, if anything, a bit overpowered, they certainly don't need a boost. One RAPIER is enough for most Mk2 ships, and dangerously overpowered (but fun!) for Mk1 planes. Four RAPIERs will easily handle a lumbering Mk3 monstrosity.

One jet:

http://i.imgur.com/jThxkKK.jpg

Two jets:

http://i.imgur.com/hvErlDQ.jpg

Three jets:

http://i.imgur.com/pI6v6KV.jpg

Four jets:

http://i.imgur.com/OnpSi5Q.jpg

But you're using FAR, in Far, there is not the "1.0.2 drag" in stock now you can't just fly a mo2 plane with one rapier.. not even 2 if its a bigger one, you have to combine them with turbohets to get enough thrust to counteract drag. And on mk3 planes... Well, my orange tank to orbit sat has 16 rapiers and 16 turbojets and a mainsail...

[RainDreamer]

I think they need fuel.

[Wanderfound]

Wanderfound, that's FAR. Does not count.

I think we need just a larger one. Because planes with 10 engines on them is not cool and is immersion-breaking.

Stock is a bit draggier than FAR, but you can still get a good-sized Mk2 up to speed with only one or two engines if you build and fly it right.

As was hinted upthread, aircraft speed is mostly about drag rather than power. Power gets you off the ground, but you need streamlining for serious velocity. Once you really get moving, shaving a tiny percentage off your drag gets you as much benefit as doubling your engine thrust.

In thrust we trust, sure, but there are reasons why aircraft designers go to such extreme lengths to minimise drag.

[Screeno]

Wanderfound, that's FAR. Does not count.

I think we need just a larger one. Because planes with 10 engines on them is not cool and is immersion-breaking.

Yes I find far really difficult. I would like it if I could fly planes and rockets without them falling apart! Haha and yes, a larger rapier would be lovely! Maybe that's what we need. A 2.5 m rapier! Or maybe a one that's larger than 1.25 but still connects to 1.25

[KerikBalm]

So what do you all think? Personally i think it could do with a better top speed in atmosphere, perhaps 1400 m/s than the now ~1,370 m/s, as the real SABRE does not exist, i feel the rapier needs to keep gaining power longer past when turbojets flameout to distinguish itself as a airbreathing engine against the turbojet. at the moment the rapiers airbreathing mode had less Isp and static thrust but more peakthrust than the turbojet, the only advantage is that it peaks at a slightly higher speed, thrust, and altitude. all i think it needs then, is a thrust increase, and a slight top speed increase, that would make it more viable than the turbojet for sstos IMO.

Fixed that for you.

[Kuu Lightwing]

Well, it's not about how good or hard FAR is, it's just about balancing for stock. I'm pretty sure Ferram can rebalance the engines a bit for FAR like he did before.

Wanderfound, but still, I'm pretty sure that your Mk2 with single RAPIER won't get to space today in stock. I needed two RAPIERs for Skylon-ish Mk2 that weights 22 tons. It didn't have too many draggy parts and only a little wing.

[Screeno]

Well, it's not about how good or hard FAR is, it's just about balancing for stock. I'm pretty sure Ferram can rebalance the engines a bit for FAR like he did before.

Wanderfound, but still, I'm pretty sure that your Mk2 with single RAPIER won't get to space today in stock. I needed two RAPIERs for Skylon-ish Mk2 that weights 22 tons. It didn't have too many draggy parts and only a little wing.

http://i.imgur.com/gR13xDpl.jpg

Oh cool ssto mate! What's the payload capacity and payload fraction? + rep for that I like skylon stuff, I'm gonna make one myself I think

[Kuu Lightwing]

Oh cool ssto mate! What's the payload capacity and payload fraction? + rep for that I like skylon stuff, I'm gonna make one myself I think

Oh, it was quite bad actually I only tested it in sandbox and put a ~2.2-ton orbital survey satellite in a polar orbit. Payload fraction was only about 10%. Might be a bit less or a bit more - can't remember exact numbers right now.

[Starhawk]

I've had a Rapier up to 1555 m/s in tests.

Happy landings!

[Screeno]

Anyway, still cool! I've just made something I thought was impossible! It's an ssto spaceplane without rapiers! Gets to a 75km orbit with plenty of fuel for rendesvous and deorbit. I think if I refuelidd it in LKO it could go to the mun and back easily as it has so much lf, like 4000+ haha it is a bit on the clippy side... It's two main engines for atmospheric flight are maide up of 3 turbojets and an aerospike clipped to gether with the offset tool lol, amd it has two of these "engines" so it has 6 turbos and 2 spikes really. And 3 nukes, and it weighs 65 tons. Haha its only for crew though. Max crew is 4 and one pilot. I'll post photos of the mun mission sometime later today in spacecraft echange

[Geschosskopf]

I think the current RAPIER is fine for small-medium spaceplanes. I think, however, that we need a larger version for Mk3 planes, to avoid having to spam so many small engines on them.

[Screeno]

I think the current RAPIER is fine for small-medium spaceplanes. I think, however, that we need a larger version for Mk3 planes, to avoid having to spam so many small engines on them.

+1 on the larger rapier thing, one of my mk 3 sstos has 8 of them with 8 turbojets...

[GoSlash27]

I think it needs less air breathing mode thrust, along with the turbojet and basic jet.

These parts are attractive for use in vertical launch boosters and they really shouldn't be.

Best,

-Slashy

[Screeno]

I think it needs less air breathing mode thrust, along with the turbojet and basic jet.

These parts are attractive for use in vertical launch boosters and they really shouldn't be.

Best,

-Slashy

Oh my god no, that would force us to put even more rapiers on our sstos.... Or it might kill sstos off... Please no