[1.0.2] TECH TREE: SuperStock - Massive, open layout 205 nodes, choose your own path!

[Mulbin]

PLEASE NOTE - NOW TAKING REQUESTS FOR MOD PART SUPPORT! WILL BE ADDING MODS BY MOST REQUESTED FIRST!

SuperStock is a complete ground-up rebuild of the entire stock tech tree.

I have built this using three design criteria;

1. Designed around stock parts (no dependency on mod parts) but will support mods too.

2. More choice (often a single part per node).

3. Logical(ish) part progression

Highly recommended/required mod!

For Superstock to function at its best, please download and install the fantastic Custom Barn Kit by Sarbian. This will allow SuperStock to correctly balance the science limits in the research facility.

Installation

Extract contents of zip, overwriting existing gamedata folder. Please note this will replace the original tech tree file so it is recommended that you back the original up first if you want to revert!

The file (temporary mediafire link) -

CHANGELOG

1.0.3 (4 June 2015)

Reduced cost of Fairings

Reduced cost of "splitters" nodes

Reduced cost of "Interstage" nodes

1.0.2 (30 May 2015)

Emergency patch to fix dependency error.

1.0.1 (30 May 2015)

Re-ordered early liquid engines. Now Vernier is available before gimballing as stop-gap measure for rocket control (Atlas tech before Saturn tech!) and remaining engines are spaced out 1 per node.

1.0 (28 May 2015)

Released!

FAQ

I'm still seeing the stock tree.

You need to start a new game using this tree, ksp now saves your tech tree to each save.

My part mod isn't showing up.

Part mod support is the next stage, make a request to get it added!

Will you add support for part mods at a later date?

Yes! Starting work on that now.

License - BSD - http://www.rebol.com/docs/bsd-mit-license.html

Edited June 4, 2015 by Mulbin

[Sokar408]

Looks really sweet! I'd like some contrast though. For example, how much more science (or less), is required to unlock it all?

http://i.imgur.com/G2hgGHo.jpg

I'm still seeing the stock tree.

You need to start a new game using this tree, ksp now saves your tech tree to each save.

My part mod isn't showing up.

No... it won't. Find another tech tree, this one isn't for you! (at least not for now)

Will you add support for part mods at a later date?

Quite possibly, or I may assist others in making their mod compatible if there is enough interest.

http://www.rebol.com/docs/bsd-mit-license.html

I assume this means no original nodes are kept, those why mods won't generally be compatible, but to be sure I'll ask anyway. Is this assumption correct?

Personally I'm a heavy modder, and its that time (exams... exams everywhere!), so for the moment I'll leave you in my KSP Mod Bookmark folder, till I get the time to start a fresh game to test it.

[Mulbin]

Looks really sweet! I'd like some contrast though. For example, how much more science (or less), is required to unlock it all?

Hmm, I'll need to add it up as I've tweaked so many parts since my initial design. More than stock I would have said but hopefully not too much more. To put things in perspective stock takes about 16k to unlock and there is 300k available in game!

I assume this means no original nodes are kept, those why mods won't generally be compatible, but to be sure I'll ask anyway. Is this assumption correct?

Personally I'm a heavy modder, and its that time (exams... exams everywhere!), so for the moment I'll leave you in my KSP Mod Bookmark folder, till I get the time to start a fresh game to test it.

Yep, no original nodes except start. I took the decision early to scrap the whole thing as it's intended for stock balance anyway and module files can always be written to add mod compatibility without shoehorning in the old nodes.

I will be releasing some module files to add mod functionality to stock parts... things like mechjeb, scansat and life support that don't necessarily need stock parts

[Mulbin]

...how much more science (or less), is required to unlock it all?

I've just added it all up. Currently it takes 26,100 science to unlock (compared to stock 16,000). A lot of the extra cost is stacked towards higher level items though to keep the game challenging later on when science becomes a bit too easy to obtain.

[Robotengineer]

I'll have to try this tonight, looks good!

[Mulbin]

I'll have to try this tonight, looks good!

Let me know how it goes!

[Robotengineer]

Let me know how it goes!

Got started a bit late, a few comments though: The parachute is well placed, but there is no way to attach it to the stayputnik, is this intended? It's hard to control rockets when their are no control surfaces, SAS modules, or gimbals in the first two tiers.

[Mulbin]

Got started a bit late, a few comments though: The parachute is well placed, but there is no way to attach it to the stayputnik, is this intended? It's hard to control rockets when their are no control surfaces, SAS modules, or gimbals in the first two tiers.

The chute is intentional so you start out transmitting data from sounding rockets. Electrical systems will give the boxsat which has a top node.

I also found the early stages a bit tough so I'm considering making verniers available earlier as a cheaper option to gimballed engines. Will add it to the list! May also swap small decoupler for medium.

[Mulbin]

Update!

Version 1.0.1 released.

Re-ordered early liquid engines. Now Vernier is available before gimballing as stop-gap measure for rocket control (Atlas tech before Saturn tech!) and remaining engines are spaced out 1 per node.

- - - Updated - - -

...aaaand another small patch to 1.0.2 to fix the error I made!

[Mulbin]

Just to confirm from my testing (on extra hard mode 30% science)

With only payloads, launch vehicles and manned flight nodes unlocked (29 points total) you can build a good Redstone analogue and get Kerbals into space... probably into orbit although I might save for a smaller sustainer engine.

Here is my "redstone"... I had already bought the Vernor engine and strut for added control and stability for my probes but not essential for manned flight. It's fine going all the way up with full throttle.

This took about the right amount of work to get to, starting with sounding rockets without guidance, then recovering sounding rockets with chutes, then buying vernors and carefully steering probes into orbit, completeing orbit science etc. Feels like I've been developing a space program but not for so long that it's got boring!

Edited May 30, 2015 by Mulbin

[Mulbin]

UPDATE!

v1.0.3 now available to download.

In other news, I'm now ready to start adding support for other mod parts, please post here with requests!

[biohazard15]

- KW Rocketry

- NovaPunch

- Tantares

- Mk2 Expansion

- DMagic Orbital Science

- Modular Rocket Systems

- SpaceY

These are one of the most popular part packs.

[Mulbin]

Wasn't getting much feedback or interest here so did some polling elsewhere! http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/124337-What-top-10-%28or-less%29-mods-couldn-t-you-do-without

Seems the vast majority of people play largely stock with some gameplay enhancements with a few part mods getting a lot of requests so will be starting out with mechjeb, scansat, KAS/KIS, TAC etc. Will probably make two versions of SuperStock, one that adds functionality of these mods to stock parts, and one that adds the actual mod parts to the tree for those who prefer playing with mod parts.

[MarcAFK]

Wow, I like this but don't look forward to the work needed to rebalance all my mods again. Then again I don't particularly like how some of my nodes unlock 2 dozen parts, but in general I've pruned nodes like that of all parts except those from a single mod.

I decided to stop moving things around after I started shuffling stock parts, but this mod might make me rethink the whole process again.

BTW, Love the redstone, I'm a big fan of doing a lot with low tech levels.

[Tontow]

Would it be possible for this plugin to auto add mod support to itself?

Just take the default stats of the mod parts and compare them to each other to figure out where and how much they need to be and it 'should' work itself out.

I doubt you have enough time in the day to add support for over 8000 mods.

IE:

Solar Panels: Compare cost vs weight vs how much power they can produce.

Construction parts and adapters: I think these have different strength and HP values that you can compare.

Snd so on.....

Edit: ***************************************************************

On a side note, I use the part mods:

KAS

KAX

KerboKatz

KIS

MechJeb2

SmartParts

Edited June 9, 2015 by Tontow

[Joshwoo70]

KAS

KIS

KW

Near Future tech (google it)

BDarmoury (of course!)

I think thats it... and um all the mods from the mod list. I see this tech tree has potential!

[How2FoldSoup]

I'd like to add scansat, infernal robotics and b9's procedural wings to the list. I'll also second all of Nerta's near future(including the nukes one). Also, is it possible to add this to CKAN? It sure would make everyone's life easier! I love the idea, I'm going to give it a try right now.

Edit: I forgot to mention procedural fairings. Either Quiztechs Mk2 expansion back or Suicidal insanity's expansion pack would be a nice bonus. I try to find mods that don't really change the game too much, but stick to that stock feel these days.

2nd Edit: Is it a bug that mk3 unlocks before mk2? That seems a bit backwards to me. I went ahead and changed the .cfg to change that back to mk2 first then mk3. Similarly with the docking ports. Mk2 docking port costing 300 science is a bit overkill imo. Maybe it should just be looped in with the mk1 inline docking port as well, and have the node go straight to the claw.

Edited June 10, 2015 by How2FoldSoup

[Mulbin]

Would it be possible for this plugin to auto add mod support to itself?

Just take the default stats of the mod parts and compare them to each other to figure out where and how much they need to be and it 'should' work itself out.

I doubt you have enough time in the day to add support for over 8000 mods.

IE:

Solar Panels: Compare cost vs weight vs how much power they can produce.

Construction parts and adapters: I think these have different strength and HP values that you can compare.

Snd so on.....

Edit: ***************************************************************

On a side note, I use the part mods:

KAS

KAX

KerboKatz

KIS

MechJeb2

SmartParts

That's an interesting idea. Thanks to some great tips from Probus (who is also making a tree) I now have the info I need to make the tree use module manager instead of overwriting the stock file, I will look into ways to allocate according to stats... possibly a blanket rule for parts until they can be tweaked into more appropriate nodes where needed.

I'd like to add scansat, infernal robotics and b9's procedural wings to the list. I'll also second all of Nerta's near future(including the nukes one). Also, is it possible to add this to CKAN? It sure would make everyone's life easier! I love the idea, I'm going to give it a try right now.

Edit: I forgot to mention procedural fairings. Either Quiztechs Mk2 expansion back or Suicidal insanity's expansion pack would be a nice bonus. I try to find mods that don't really change the game too much, but stick to that stock feel these days.

2nd Edit: Is it a bug that mk3 unlocks before mk2? That seems a bit backwards to me. I went ahead and changed the .cfg to change that back to mk2 first then mk3. Similarly with the docking ports. Mk2 docking port costing 300 science is a bit overkill imo. Maybe it should just be looped in with the mk1 inline docking port as well, and have the node go straight to the claw.

Definitely plenty of room to adjust higher cost items, I'm playing through the tree on extra hard mode at the moment so will keep adjusting prices when they seem too high, thanks for feedback I'll look at the docking nodes!

The mk2/3 switch around is deliberate. Mk3 is clearly based on the space shuttle (1970s tech) while mk2 is futuristic (stupid naming from squad!), also remember that bigger and heavier is not the same as better in spaceflight! The mk2 is more efficient when you look at the passenger to weight potential of the finished spaceplanes... a lot less metal to throw into the air! Mk 2 should really be the endgame ship as it can completely replace your general purpose small spacecraft, mk3 on the other hand is too big and bulky to be a complete replacement for your soyuz equivalents.

[waerth]

That's an interesting idea. Thanks to some great tips from Probus (who is also making a tree) I now have the info I need to make the tree use module manager instead of overwriting the stock file, I will look into ways to allocate according to stats... possibly a blanket rule for parts until they can be tweaked into more appropriate nodes where needed.

Hi are these tips somewhere public? As I am on a private venture to redo the start of my techtree based on the mods I use. It would be great to use module manager instead of editing the stock one.

W

[How2FoldSoup]

Definitely plenty of room to adjust higher cost items, I'm playing through the tree on extra hard mode at the moment so will keep adjusting prices when they seem too high, thanks for feedback I'll look at the docking nodes!

The mk2/3 switch around is deliberate. Mk3 is clearly based on the space shuttle (1970s tech) while mk2 is futuristic (stupid naming from squad!), also remember that bigger and heavier is not the same as better in spaceflight! The mk2 is more efficient when you look at the passenger to weight potential of the finished spaceplanes... a lot less metal to throw into the air! Mk 2 should really be the endgame ship as it can completely replace your general purpose small spacecraft, mk3 on the other hand is too big and bulky to be a complete replacement for your soyuz equivalents.

I was thinking this might be the case. Bigger is better, in the case of payload size. However this means that to launch a smaller high dV ion probe, I'd need to send what would become a humongo beast into orbit. But this is your line of thinking, and on second thought I like it. It also means that as you improve with a smaller/sleeker ship, you should be getting better at designing your payloads and become capable of doing more with a smaller craft. I edited it and changed it to mk2 -> mk3 myself last night, but I might just switch it back to see how that affects the play through. I guess a shuttlesque -> Skylon progression makes sense. Although, they are both massive, Skylon only puts around 5mt into orbit, so again, this follows your reasoning. I'll try it out. I also can't play without adjustable landing gear, which I made the small/med/large go into landinggear1/2/3 respectively, and instells scramjets into the experimental tech with the rapier.

As far as balance goes, the aerospike doesn't belong in the jet engines tree. Put it somewhere in the rocket engine tree "jack of all trades engine technology" or whatever you want to call it while having the progression from turbojet -> rapier while possibly increasing the rapier unlock cost to 1000 science? Just a suggestion. I haven't played through it yet, however. I fear I won't have time to other than what I can get done today. I'll be out of town for the next week. I'd be happy to playtest as much as possible when I return though.

[Mulbin]

the aerospike doesn't belong in the jet engines tree. Put it somewhere in the rocket engine tree "jack of all trades engine technology" or whatever you want to call it while having the progression from turbojet -> rapier while possibly increasing the rapier unlock cost to 1000 science?

You're quite right, I hadn't read up on aerospikes until now (and have never used it in game), it will be moved to an advanced fork of the liquid engine section... although not too advanced as it seems it's not actually that good in ksp! Agree that the rapier will be the "end game" jet(ish) engine.

The more people that play through and give feedback the better! Particularly as everyone will have different views on the progression. I'm particularly keen for feedback on parts of the tree that are either to easy or too hard to unlock. Balancing things so the gradual increase in science gained matches the increase in costs is quite a challenge.

[How2FoldSoup]

You're quite right, I hadn't read up on aerospikes until now (and have never used it in game), it will be moved to an advanced fork of the liquid engine section... although not too advanced as it seems it's not actually that good in ksp!

.

It is and it isn't. It's main pro is that it has a relatively small change in ISP over a great range of pressure. I still see it being used in SSTO's and Eve landers, due to the fact that it might be one of the ONLY engines that actually works near sea level(i thinkâ„¢). It still has more isp than a rapier, and may be good for orbital maneuvers for SSTO's. I actually just got an idea for a design...need to go unlock the parts though first. On any rocket where the stage will be used from sea level to vacuum, the aerospike is the best choice. I'm not sure where exactly on the tree that would fit, but that's its niche use.

[schoff123]

- Tantares + LV

- RealChute

- KAS/KIS

- DMagic Science

- TAC Life

- RT

- Maybe KW? Or perhaps USI

edit: this is quite an impressive reorg of the tree, i cant wait to test it out!

[clivman]

OMSK and Tantares

[Tangle]

All I've seen is KIS, KAS, and Mechjeb. I tried doing it but for some reason it didn't work? I also question ordering the Mk3 before the Mk2.

{

@TechRequired = serviceCompartments1
}

@PART[KIS_ContainerMount1}
{

@TechRequired = serviceCompartments1
}

@PART[KIS_wrench]
{

@TechRequired = structural2
}

@PART[KIS_guide]
{

@TechRequired = structural2
}

@PART[KAS_Strut1]
{

@TechRequired = structural2
}

@PART[KAS_CPort1}
{

@TechRequired = structural3
}

@PART[kis_concreteBase1]
{

@TechRequired = structural4
}

@PART[KIS_electricScrewdriver]
{

@TechRequired = structural4
}

@PART[KAS_Pylon1]
{

@TechRequired = structural4
}

@PART[KIS_bomb1]
{

@TechRequired = decouplers6
}

@PART[mumech_MJ2_AR202_features2]
{

@TechRequired = wheels2
}

@PART[mumech_MJ2_AR202_features3]
{

@TechRequired = landing2
}

@PART[mumech_MJ2_AR202]
{

@TechRequired = probes2
}

@PART[mumech_MJ2_Pod}
{

@TechRequired = probes6
}

@PART[mumech_MJ2_AR202_features1]
{

@TechRequired = stability2
}

@PART[mumech_MJ2_AR202_features4]
{

@TechRequired = docking2
}

@PART[KAS_Winch1]
{

@TechRequired = asteroidRetrieval
}

@PART[KAS_Winch2]
{

@TechRequired = asteroidRetrieval
}

@PART[KAS_Hook_Harpoon]
{

@TechRequired = asteroidRetrieval
}

@PART[KAS_Hook_GrapplingHook]
{

@TechRequired = asteroidRetrieval
}

@PART[KAS_Hook_Anchor]
{

@TechRequired = asteroidRetrieval
}

@PART[KIS_evapropellant}
{

@TechRequired = landers2
}

@PART[KIS_Container1]