The Ultimate Jool 5 Challenge - 1.0 to 1.3

[sdj64]

On 5/30/2016 at 10:32 AM, Norcurion said:

I've got 2 requests.

1)Can you put [x]Science onto the mod list?

[x]Science

It's a pure informative mod that shows which science you've already done, no matter if it's stored in any ship or returned to the KSC.

I am a little bit messy/confused person and it would help me alot.

 

2) Does things like that thud count as part clipping? Strictly speaking it would violate the Tank/Engine-Partclipping rule,

but i've got some things like that that are mostly just visual improvements and would like to keep them

1) Any helpful mod is allowed which doesn't add parts and doesn't change the physics (MechJeb, information mods, alarm clocks, enhanced navballs, docking cams, texture replacers, clouds, protractor, fuel balancer, chatterer, etc). so yes because it is an information mod.

2) I'll strive for consistency on the clipping rule, and that's definitely on the edge of unacceptable.  Move it down a bit so at least half the height of the body is showing and it would be okay.

 

On 6/1/2016 at 0:33 PM, GwynJHawke said:

I'm making a stock attempt of jool 5 in 1.0.5. Going to try a level three attempt (5 kerbals, a full time pilot with the others taking turns). My biggest issue so far is designing my ship. I've come up with 5 different designs and scrapped all 5 due to each design having too much dead weight.  Any suggestions on how to minimize my non-fuel mass? I'd appreciate some direction and suggestion.

I should mention the overall design I'm working around though. I have a detachable heat shield section comprised of multiple heat shields at the front of the ship. Linked to that via large docking port is a simple hitchhiker crew container. Linked to that, via large docking port, is the main fuel section containing a 2.5 to Mk.3 addapter, Mk. 3 monoprop tank, Mk. 3 to 3.5 adapter, the smallest 3.5 fuel module, and the rest is stepped back down in reverse order. That's then linked via large docking port to my lander for all 5 moons and also the main engine drive for the entire ship. Its a Mk.2 lander can, large reaction wheel, 2.5 utility bay filled with batteries, a full scientific instrument arrary, small monoprop tanks, and a pair of RTGs, folloeed by a large orange tank with a poodle engine attached with six dart engies attached radially with large 1.5 meter tanks.  It also has 4 drouge and radial parachutes to slow the lander on Laythe.

You're carrying a lot of monopropellent in that Mk3 tank, do you really need that much?  Also maybe split up your fuel tanks so you can stage them off when they're empty, and consider the inflatable heat shield might weigh less than your multi-shield section.  The design philosophy of using lander engines to push the mothership could be a good one, but you will need lots of fuel without nukes.

 

22 hours ago, samamstar said:

On level 3:

I'm considering doing a mission where my lander fits 1 kerbal, but my mothership lands to refuel. Tylo and laythe would only have 1 kerbal land, but all 5 would land on Pol, Bop, and Val. Would this still qualify for level 3? Or would it only be level 2?

Yes it would, as long as Tylo and Laythe are done by different Kerbals.  That way every Kerbal gets to "lead" for one moon.

[GwynJHawke]

I've put a little more thought into the matter. To start, I only have v1.0.5, so I don't have the inflatable heat shield, or else I would gladly use it. It would take a 19 part heat shield section and bring that down to only 2 parts. Sadly, not an option at this time (older computer problems). However, my original flight plan called for a aerobreak in both jool and laythe's atatmospheres. My original plan had me burning retrograde for a little while to slow down enough in laythe's atmosphere to where nothing blows up and let air resistance slow the lander down enough to deploy the drogue chutes followed by the parachutes. My new thought is to simply detach the heat shield as planned after aerobreaking into orbit around laythe, and attach it to the lander. This way I can save precious deltaV in the descent and only fire the areospikes just before landing.

My second issue is landing on Tylo. I planned on a very low orbit for the mothership at ~12,000 meters. This should hopefully help save deltaV that gets bled out to fight gravitational pull. The less I have to fall, the less I have to waste. However, my deltaV calculation for the lander is just about 4800 d/V. That's plenty enough to land, but the mission is not to start a colony. From my research, it seems I'm a bit short on my fuel capacity. Maybe I can take a dockable fuel tank that I can drain and ditch before landing... it would only add 5 parts to my part count, 2 docking ports, fuel tank, and 2 micro SRB's to push it away after it's empty.

Taking a lot of fuel isn't something I'm much concerned with. I can swap out the middle part of the ship's main fuel section for a larger 3.5 meter piece and keep my part count the same, which is thr bigger issue for me.

[Norcurion]

@sdj64

Thanks for the clarification. I'll rewiev my design more rigorously for clipped functional parts.

 

Edited June 3, 2016 by Norcurion

[Kerolyov]

@Nefrums can I ask how you plan the many gravity assists (both interplanetary and within Jool system) you did in your amzing 8.6 ton SSTO Jool 5 flight?

Did you plan them ahead of time with a tool like KSP TOT and Transfer Window Planner etc etc?  For the interplanetary burns how did you find a windows to do the Kerbin-Eve-Jool chain so planets would be in reasonable locations?  Trial and error or some tool?  Did you have to time warp much waiting for the moons to be in right postion for your efficient gravity assisted moon to moon transfers?

[DaMachinator]

Trying to make a single stage tylo lander for 4 kerbals is proving difficult. I'm trying to land all four orange suits on every moon. 

[JacobJHC]

@DaMachinator That sounds awesome, what I always do for Tylo landers is use a chair for each kerbal I then simulate their added mass by adding 2 of the tiny rover wheels per kerbal so I can get a reasonable delta-v amount for testing. Just an idea though.

[quarrion]

Hey, I have a question - i'm midway the challenge when I realised that I set up one of my fuel lines on tylo lander backwards and I forgot to pack screw/anything to swap it. Can I send a probe with just this item (as refuelling mission which in other case I wouldn't need)?
I imagine that dialogue:

Jeb: Bill we have a problem, one fuel line is malfunctioning, you took your toolbox right?

Bill: ... Crap I knew I forgot something

[How to: KSP]

Can I use kerbal engineer redux for information in flight and building the ship. Is it ok to refuel by a lander in vall with the fuel?

[Chuck U. Farley]

Step 1 of my Jool-5 mission--sending up the main ship. Only part mods used are TAC Life Support, Deep Freeze Continued, and Kerbal Engineer. 

Any issues so far? 

http://imgur.com/a/XGZS5

Edited June 7, 2016 by Chuck U. Farley

[Thalamask]

15 hours ago, How to: KSP said:

Can I use kerbal engineer redux for information in flight and building the ship. Is it ok to refuel by a lander in vall with the fuel?

Kerbal Engineer is permitted, check the list of permitted mods. For the other question, you're allowed a single refuelling mission. There's no rules on what you refuel with it - but KAS and KIS are not allowed, so you'll need to dock if you plan to transfer fuel.

[How to: KSP]

Thanks Thamalamask. BTW Can I do this the RSS (Real Solar System)

[quarrion]

On 1.06.2015 at 4:51 PM, sdj64 said:

  Hide contents

- Modular Rocket Systems
- RLA Stockalike
- SpaceY
- KW Rocketry
- Procedural Fairings
- Kerbonov Kn-2
- K2 Command Pod
- Habitat Pack
- Stockalike Station Parts
- Near Future Solar
- Near Future Construction
- Near Future Spacecraft
- Home Grown Rocketry
- Fuel Tanks Plus
- ALCOR
- Procedural Parts
- Stock Fuel Switch (or Firespitter/Interstellar Fuel Switch)
- Throttle Controlled Avionics
- Jettison Fuel
- Dang It!
- any life support mod
- attachable external lights
- attachable external camera mods
- FAR Aerodynamics Model
- Deadly Reentry
- Kerbal Joint Reinforcement
- Realchutes
- KIS and KAS
- Universal Storage
- USI Kolonization Systems
- Lithobrake Exploration Technologies
- Ven's Stock Revamp

- Pathfinder (only allowed on ISRU submissions)
- Stockalike Mining Expansion (only allowed on ISRU submisions)
- Kethane (only allowed on ISRU submisions)
- Karbonite (only allowed on ISRU submisions)

- Extraplanetary launchpads
- Near Future Propulsion
- Near Future Electrical
- KSP Interstellar
- B9 Aerospace Pack
- Lack Luster Labs (LLL)
- Lack's Stock Extension (SXT)
- Kerbin Shuttle Orbiter Systems
- FASA
- Firespitter (the parts, not the plugin)
- Tantares
- Wayland Corp.
- Corvus Command Pod
- AIES Technologies
- BobCat Soviet Engine Pack
- TweakScale
- Atomic Age
- HyperEdit

...If you disagree with the location of one of these mods, or you want to add a new one to the list, please ask, and include a link!
- Any mod that adds new science experiments, methods, or parts, or changes how science works (including ScanSat, DMagic, Station Science, etc.) is allowed, but you will not be scored for science points if you use one of these mods.
- Any helpful mod is allowed which doesn't add parts and doesn't change the physics (MechJeb, information mods, alarm clocks, enhanced navballs, docking cams, texture replacers, clouds, protractor, fuel balancer, chatterer, etc).

 

 

 

@Thalamask  KIS and KAS are on "greenlist" are they allowed or not then?

Edited June 7, 2016 by quarrion
typo

[Thalamask]

1 hour ago, quarrion said:

 

@Thalamask  KIS and KAS are on "greenlist" are they allowed or not then?

That's new.... those used to be forbidden mods. Thanks for pointing out that they're allowed now!

[quarrion]

@Thalamask ,Thanks for clearing this out then Another inconsistency I found: (NFC) Near Future Construction is listed as allowed but B9 Fuel Switch isn't, while it is required by NFC (Nertea has switched to this in one of the latest updates). My current design relies heavy on octo-trusses so it is kind of life-or-death issue 

My design so far:

 

Edited June 7, 2016 by quarrion

[GwynJHawke]

On Friday, June 03, 2016 at 11:26 PM, DaMachinator said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sdj64]

On 6/7/2016 at 10:36 AM, Thalamask said:

That's new.... those used to be forbidden mods. Thanks for pointing out that they're allowed now!

Yes, they were prohibited but they were one of the most consistently requested mods over time, plus they don't provide a very big advantage so they were eventually allowed.  There's a bit of power creep over time, but I'm trying to keep it reasonably low.  

 

On 6/7/2016 at 1:13 PM, quarrion said:

@Thalamask ,Thanks for clearing this out then Another inconsistency I found: (NFC) Near Future Construction is listed as allowed but B9 Fuel Switch isn't, while it is required by NFC (Nertea has switched to this in one of the latest updates). My current design relies heavy on octo-trusses so it is kind of life-or-death issue 

My design so far:

 

B9 Aerospace Pack is not allowed, that's the big plane parts.  I was not aware that B9 had a separate fuel switcher or that it was required for NFC.  It will be allowed since other fuel switchers are also allowed.

 

On 6/7/2016 at 5:53 AM, How to: KSP said:

Thanks Thamalamask. BTW Can I do this the RSS (Real Solar System)

No, since Jool and its moons do not exist in RSS 

A "Jupiter 4" challenge would be an incredible achievement though!

Edited June 8, 2016 by sdj64

[How to: KSP]

7 hours ago, sdj64 said:

Yes, they were prohibited but they were one of the most consistently requested mods over time, plus they don't provide a very big advantage so they were eventually allowed.  There's a bit of power creep over time, but I'm trying to keep it reasonably low.  

 

B9 Aerospace Pack is not allowed, that's the big plane parts.  I was not aware that B9 had a separate fuel switcher or that it was required for NFC.  It will be allowed since other fuel switchers are also allowed.

 

No, since Jool and its moons do not exist in RSS 

A "Jupiter 4" challenge would be an incredible achievement though!

 

I am gonna do this challenge and then can I rank up. Hell yeah

[Chuck U. Farley]

Here is Step 1 of my Jool-5 mission--sending up the main ship. Only part mods used are TAC Life Support, Deep Freeze Continued, and Kerbal Engineer. 

Any issues so far? 

http://imgur.com/a/XGZS5

EDIT: My last post seems to have been ignored. Reposting for an answer. 

[sdj64]

21 hours ago, Chuck U. Farley said:

Here is Step 1 of my Jool-5 mission--sending up the main ship. Only part mods used are TAC Life Support, Deep Freeze Continued, and Kerbal Engineer. 

Any issues so far? 

http://imgur.com/a/XGZS5

EDIT: My last post seems to have been ignored. Reposting for an answer. 

Looks good so far.  Have you tried multi-docking before in 1.1?  In my experience it only wants to dock one port now.

[SpaceplaneAddict]

Yo, @sdj64, I'm curious, why aren't refuel mission allowed for ISRU vessels? I mean even THEY can get stranded.

*Determination.

[sdj64]

On 6/9/2016 at 11:40 PM, SpaceplaneAddict said:

Yo, @sdj64, I'm curious, why aren't refuel mission allowed for ISRU vessels? I mean even THEY can get stranded.

*Determination.

Does this mean that your ISRU ship is stranded?  The reason for that rule is that ISRU already provides a means to refuel.  It would be devastating PR if you had to send a rescue mission to refuel your self-refueling ship!  Sorry.

[Norcurion]

Well. Finalized the design for my Jeb-level-Grand-Tour Ship. ~255 T ~1350 Parts

Those are Screenshots from my last Hyperedit-Testflights.

I'll wipe my KSP folder now, make a new clean install, just put up the bare minimum of mods (Engineer, MJ, ScienceX and the habitat pack) and put all settings to low

Then i'll start constructing it for real with my space shuttles

Even the first insertion burn will take about an hour, so it will take at least 2-3 weeks until im able to complete the mission.

Edited June 13, 2016 by Norcurion

[max_creative]

I have a question. What if you start from another planet (Dres)? What I mean is I send it to Dres, deliver some stuff in orbit and land to refuel, do Journey to Dres stuff, take off, dock with a lander that arrived from Kerbin earlier, then head to Dres? It's an irsu ship BTW.

Would it count as Normal Jool 5 irsu? Or to do that would it need to leave with the lander attached? Or maybe it would be something in between normal and grand tour? Or is it a totally new category to pick stuff up at Dres instead of launching with it? I could probably launch with it if it makes it easier for you @sdj64, but that would mean a larger and much more complicated booster and mission plan. 

I'm wondering because the +Watney I launched recently in my mission report I plan to have go to Jool next Dres-Jool transfer window. But before the ship goes to Jool it has a bunch of stuff to do at Dres (like flying through the big canyon).

I just want to know so my entry is valid and doesn't make things too hard for you. I can launch another one that's slightly modified with the lander attached during launch. Then the whole mission launches all at once straight for Jool. 

If you need to see the ship for some reason, the imgur album of the launch is here. Thanks! 

                                                                                                                             -max_creative

[sdj64]

3 hours ago, max_creative said:

I have a question. What if you start from another planet (Dres)? What I mean is I send it to Dres, deliver some stuff in orbit and land to refuel, do Journey to Dres stuff, take off, dock with a lander that arrived from Kerbin earlier, then head to Dres? It's an irsu ship BTW.

Would it count as Normal Jool 5 irsu? Or to do that would it need to leave with the lander attached? Or maybe it would be something in between normal and grand tour? Or is it a totally new category to pick stuff up at Dres instead of launching with it? I could probably launch with it if it makes it easier for you @sdj64, but that would mean a larger and much more complicated booster and mission plan. 

I'm wondering because the +Watney I launched recently in my mission report I plan to have go to Jool next Dres-Jool transfer window. But before the ship goes to Jool it has a bunch of stuff to do at Dres (like flying through the big canyon).

I just want to know so my entry is valid and doesn't make things too hard for you. I can launch another one that's slightly modified with the lander attached during launch. Then the whole mission launches all at once straight for Jool. 

If you need to see the ship for some reason, the imgur album of the launch is here. Thanks! 

                                                                                                                             -max_creative

As long as the whole Jool 5 ship leaves Kerbin in one piece.  You should bring your landers with you and also make sure that no ships already at Dres give your ship fuel or parts.  You can even drop off stuff at Dres if you want but you can't pick anything up.  Your ship can mine at Dres or the asteroids if it has its own equipment.

 

@Norcurion that's crazy big for an ion ship!  Good luck with your grand tour!

[max_creative]

5 minutes ago, sdj64 said:

As long as the whole Jool 5 ship leaves Kerbin in one piece.  You should bring your landers with you and also make sure that no ships already at Dres give your ship fuel or parts.  You can even drop off stuff at Dres if you want but you can't pick anything up.  Your ship can mine at Dres or the asteroids if it has its own equipment.

Ok... Not good. Time to tell Gus to roll out the ++Watney. Hmm... I feel like leaving something at Dres... Guess after I'm done I can just pick up the crew at Kerbin, then send the ship and lander to Dres...

Guess I'll just decide the plan as I go. Any idea what I should name the mission report?