Mobile Processing Lab?

[Joonatan1998]

The mobile lab seems to be very OP.

It is basically an "I win" button, allowing (very) easy unlocking of the whole tech tree.

If used it makes the game into a bit more grindy sandbox.

Of course you don't have to use it...

...but that argument can be used to justify absolutely everything.

(Why no 2000 isp, 20 TWR engine in the first node, you don't have to use it!!!)

Should it be nerfed?

Is "balance" even usable concept for sandbox games?

Edited June 1, 2015 by Joonatan1998

[r4pt0r]

I think a rebalancing is in order as well

[mattinoz]

Is unlocking the Tech Tree really how you "Win"?

[technicalfool]

Nope.

If you really want to play the game by filling a lab with 500 units of data and time warping a lot, that's your prerogative.

(Maybe I should make my Punish The Lazy mod more punishing?)

[Yakuzi]

The MPL is not OP, career is... Since you don't have any daily/weekly/monthly costs you can just timewarp without consequence. I hope Squad fixes this in the future so career will put the "program" part into Kerbal Space Program.

Your exact question about the MPL thing is currently discussed here if you're interested

Edited June 1, 2015 by Yakuzi

[r4pt0r]

The MPL is not OP, career is... Since you don't have any daily/weekly/monthly costs you can just timewarp without consequence. I hope Squad fixes this in the future so career will put the "program" part into Kerbal Space Program.

Your exact question about the MPL thing is currently discussed here if you're interested

I also had relevant posts in that thread, as did Flowerchild but they got scrubbed. IDK why, the op was asking if it was OP and we were explaining our views on why it is OP.

[Joonatan1998]

Is unlocking the Tech Tree really how you "Win"?

"Win" may be a wrong word.

It makes career into sandbox where you just have to visit the lab if you run out of money.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Joonatan1998

[RoverDude]

If you are attempting to use the MPL in sandbox to make money, there are much easier ways of doing this (ore drill on the launchpad and recover, etc) given it's hard cap of 500 science that can be stored, and the very low science to funds ratio with strategies.

[Superfluous J]

I don't think it's possible for a device that gives you science to be OP. Science in this game is like water. Your ships explode when they touch it. No, wait. That's not what I meant.

Science in this game is like water. It just flows in from all directions filling up your R&D building.

[Joonatan1998]

The MPL is not OP, career is... Since you don't have any daily/weekly/monthly costs you can just timewarp without consequence. I hope Squad fixes this in the future so career will put the "program" part into Kerbal Space Program.

Your exact question about the MPL thing is currently discussed here if you're interested

That thread is only for discussion on "is the MPL OP", not "should it be nerfed"

Many posts were deleted for being off topic.

[Wjolcz]

I assure you it won't feel as OP as it is once we get a proper life support in the stock game.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Veeltch

[KSK]

The mobile lab seems to be very OP.

It is basically an "I win" button, allowing (very) easy unlocking of the whole tech tree.

If used it makes the game into a bit more grindy sandbox.

This seems a bit contradictory. If the mobile lab allows easy unlocking of the tech tree I would have thought that the game becomes less grindy, not more?

Is "balance" even usable concept for sandbox games?

Up to a point. Some things would clearly be unbalanced, for example your example of a 20 TWR, 2000 ISP engine in Tier 0 (which I'm guessing is the point you were making ). However, in general, I would say that options are more important than balance in a sandbox game. As stated on another thread, I'm quite happy with a game providing easy options and harder options for the player to choose from.

For the MPL - if players really want to timewarp their way to a completed tech tree then that's their choice.

[Tankman101]

I assure you it won't feel as OP as it is once we get a proper life support in the stock game.

I wouldn't hold my breath on life support in stock if I were you.

[Superfluous J]

I wouldn't hold my breath on life support in stock if I were you.

I have no idea if that was intentional or not but I found it quite funny.

[Tankman101]

I have no idea if that was intentional or not but I found it quite funny.

Unintentional puns are the best puns.

[r4pt0r]

I wouldn't hold my breath on life support in stock if I were you.

yeah I just wanted to say that was fantastic.

[Claw]

I think this is an excellent example of "Make science less grindy" vs "You've made science too un-grindy." Automated things like this are notoriously difficult to balance, since time is pretty much meaningless in this game. Anything that happens automatically while "on rails" will always be prone to OPness (in my opinion).

I wish I knew how best to modify the existing system so that it makes sense and integrates into a holistic career/science mode game. As I posted in another thread, there is no overarching context for this game. It is more of a sandbox rocket game, with some stuff to do overlaid on top. I think this driving sandbox feel will always overAshadow the science system, and attempts to make it less grindy (without a holistic change) will probably always feel cheaty, or not good enough. Turn down the science production in the lab, then you just have to warp longer to get the same amount of return...

Just my rambling thoughts.

Cheers,

~Claw

[Laie]

The (perceived) grindyness in this case stems from a) micromanagment the sit-and-wait while data is being transmitted, c) you have to do a lot of clicky-clicky in little real time.

If you care about calendar time, the lab isn't unreasonable: between unlocking the lab and the first Duna window, one lab can create 1000-1500 science points. Compares well to a munar survey.

If you don't care about time, it is sort of an "I win" button, but one that has to be pressed many many times. Though "proceed to sandbox" would be a better name, IMO. Either way, once you accept this mindset, it's totally reasonable to expect it to work with a single click.

And even if you don't treat it as an insta-win button, it is hard to handle because of the exponential conversion rate, making it difficult to perform calculations off the top of your head (is that even english?). I have surface data from the Mun coming in chunks of 165 points. When will I have the capacity to process that data? Better to sit and watch... and watch... which involves managing timewarp and seeing the lab operate below capacity for quite some time. That is something I'd call negative gameplay exerience.

All of these issues are, at their core, psychological. Some could be dealt with (larger IO buffers and a more predictable conversion rate would reduce the "need" for babysitting, for example), others can not.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Laie