[1.0.5] Behemoth Aerospace Engineering Large Parts v1.3.5 (2015-11-15)

[Padrone]

Sorry, I guess my point was lost in the details I furnished trying to show my line of logic.

Short version:

Run with everything, game crashes and/or runs with messed up contracts while using contract packs running under Nightingale's Contract Configurator

From that very same install that has a problem, if I remove one file (/BAE/Agencies/Agents.cfg), the very same installation runs fine.

Other notable info:

It runs fine using 7.6Gb on a 16Gb computer, as long as the /BAE/Agencies/Agents.cfg file is not present. The out of memory error just crops up sometimes, maybe one in 10-15 starts. And at 8+ minutes load time for each run, I was getting tired of trying different combos over the last few days. That's why I didn't do another complete test grid.

Before I ran across that post making note of the potential issue, I had tried a whole lot of different combos. (Sorry, I didn't keep the grid I used once I gave up and just did the Sandbox) Nothing I tried with different combos of the Configurator and packs fixed the issue. After some trial and error, I discover that removing one file from BAE appears to fix said issue.

[greystork]

Sorry, I guess my point was lost in the details I furnished trying to show my line of logic.

No, I get it. You believe, since everything works when you remove that one file, it must be that on file. This is not necessarily so, however. If that one file is the proverbial drop that overfloweth the cup, it may be a more general problem. That is why I asked you to remove a different mod and see if things start working. If they do, it is definitely a resource problem, and not a problem with BAE.

If it is a genuine problem with BAE, I am surprised that you are the only one reporting it. There should be many others having the same experience. Since that does not seem to be the case, I am inclined to believe that it might be a mod incompatibility issue. That is, one or more of your 172 mods may somehow not play nice with BAE. Needless to say, it will be difficult to figure out exactly which one(s).

Perhaps the easiest solution, if you can live without the BAE contracts, is to play the game like you are already doing - without them.

[nightingale]

I am aware of that, but it shouldn't affect contracts, as it is only used as a flag decal. Just so there's no confusion, I will make it a PNG in future versions.

Actually, that's incorrect. KSP will auto-create agents from flags.

Anyway, the problem with agents and DDS needs a perfect storm, but when it fails, it fails hard:

1. KSP will ignore scaled agent icons that are .DDS (they're below the minimum resolution for DDS, I believe)
   
2. If it can't find a scaled agent icon, it'll convert from the unscaled version.
   
3. If the unscaled version is DDS, it'll try to read it from memory, and fail with an exception. Due to bad stock code the agent loading process is to a halt. Which means a portion of the agents (presumably anything that sits in a directory alphabetically after the one it failed on) will never load. Contracts that are hardcoded to run for a certain agent that didn't get loaded will fail (World-First records in stock, almost every contract pack for Contract Configurator).
   

It is really quite obnoxious, but what this means is:

1. If you have your main agent icon as DDS, you need a scaled one in PNG.
   
2. If your main agent icon is PNG, you can optionally create a scaled one in PNG.
   
3. No idea the implication (if any) for flags that KSP decides to auto-transform into agents.
   

EDIT: That being said, I have no idea if this is Padrone's issue - since it sounds like he is also running out of memory, which is muddying the water. Anyway, that in a nutshull is the problem with DDS + Agents, which may also affect normal flags (not 100% sure).

Edited July 16, 2015 by nightingale

[plague006]

Had someone pop up in CKAN chat with the same issue as Padrone. He uninstalled mods until he hit BAE which solved the issue. I asked him to uninstall the remaining mods then reinstall BAE and his issue returned. He was on Arch linux. I wasn't able to replicate the behaviour under Win7-64, nor was a colleague able to replicate under ubuntu 14.04.

[greystork]

Actually, that's incorrect. KSP will auto-create agents from flags.

Thanks for elaborating. BAE does have a PNG flag in agents, however, so auto-generation shouldn't happen.

- - - Updated - - -

Had someone pop up in CKAN chat with the same issue as Padrone. He uninstalled mods until he hit BAE which solved the issue. I asked him to uninstall the remaining mods then reinstall BAE and his issue returned. He was on Arch linux. I wasn't able to replicate the behaviour under Win7-64, nor was a colleague able to replicate under ubuntu 14.04.

That is really weird. There is absolutely nothing unusual about my Agents.cfg setup - it looks very much like many other mods. Unless he is using a version of BAE prior to 1.2.0, I have no clue how it could happen.

- - - Updated - - -

Padrone, based on the above discussions, there are two things, I can think of, that marginally qualify as potential issues. Here's how to fix them:

1. Copy behemoth.png from Agencies to Flags and delete behemoth.dds in Flags.

2. Open Agencies/Agents.cfg and remove the line: "standing = SpaceY Technologies Corporation, 0.6"

If this works, it would be great if you could figure out which of the fixes worked. If it doesn't, we're up a creek.

[nightingale]

Hmmm.... another possible theory - ATM may be the difference. ATM will by default change most textures to not readable (saves on memory that way), which would cause this issue. The default ATM config file is set up to not do this for anything in */Agencies/*, so a correctly installed ATM wouldn't have this issue, but a bad one might.

Padrone - Try this only if greystork's suggestions don't work for you, but if you have ATM, try temporarily uninstalling it and see if that resolves your issue.

[SAI Peregrinus]

I had the same issue as Padrone. I found that TextureReplacer's default setting was to enable setting textures to not readable, unless ATM is installed. So having BAE and TextureReplacer would cause the failure, while BAE + ATM + TextureReplacer wouldn't since ATM overrides TextureReplacer and excludes */Agencies/*.

Fixes that worked: Adding ATM, adding a regex to exclude Agencies from TextureReplacer's texture unloading, converting the BAE .dds flag to .png. So it certainly seems to be the problem Nightingale described.

[greystork]

I had the same issue as Padrone. I found that TextureReplacer's default setting was to enable setting textures to not readable, unless ATM is installed. So having BAE and TextureReplacer would cause the failure, while BAE + ATM + TextureReplacer wouldn't since ATM overrides TextureReplacer and excludes */Agencies/*.

Fixes that worked: Adding ATM, adding a regex to exclude Agencies from TextureReplacer's texture unloading, converting the BAE .dds flag to .png. So it certainly seems to be the problem Nightingale described.

Very insightful and to the point. Thanks a bunch! I'll be pushing an update shortly.

EDIT: Version 1.3.2 is up, which (hopefully) fixes this issue.

Edited July 20, 2015 by greystork

[AlonzoTG]

yo, I've been messing with a cool, orphaned mod called Stanford Torruses. The creator had an amazing knack for coming up with cool concepts but was a little inexperienced when he did his parts. Anyway, one of my favorites from that pack was a 10M-class laboratory module. After much agony, I found an explanation about why I couldn't get the IVAs to work, the coordinant systems are different for EVA, IVA and kerbals!!!! Anyway, I finally resolved the issue. I use a feature of RPM to make the IVA view visible from EVA. I would like to make each of the screens in the thing display a relevant RPM screen. Anyway, I hope that you might consider adopting the part, and perhaps some other selections from that pack. It really is cool! My version of the part has many cleanups that would take a long time to apply to an older version of the part. I'll provide it if you are interested. I have done some testing on one of my older launchers, now converted to BAE parts instead of tweakscaled KW parts...

[Whovian]

I'm still experiencing the contracts issue with Texture Replacer, unfortunately. Reproduced with BAE, Kopernicus, the Asclepius planet pack, Contract Configurator, Firespitter, Module Manager 2.6.6, and Texture Replacer. AFAIK everything's up to date (and I just downloaded the new version of BAE). Contract packs used in the reproduction were Asclepius, Kerbin Space Station, and Tourism Plus; after I entered career mode and clicked on the Contract Configurator button in the stock toolbar, the Asclepius contract pack didn't appear as loaded.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Whovian

[greystork]

yo, I've been messing with a cool, orphaned mod called Stanford Torruses. The creator had an amazing knack for coming up with cool concepts but was a little inexperienced when he did his parts. Anyway, one of my favorites from that pack was a 10M-class laboratory module. After much agony, I found an explanation about why I couldn't get the IVAs to work, the coordinant systems are different for EVA, IVA and kerbals!!!! Anyway, I finally resolved the issue. I use a feature of RPM to make the IVA view visible from EVA. I would like to make each of the screens in the thing display a relevant RPM screen. Anyway, I hope that you might consider adopting the part, and perhaps some other selections from that pack. It really is cool! My version of the part has many cleanups that would take a long time to apply to an older version of the part. I'll provide it if you are interested. I have done some testing on one of my older launchers, now converted to BAE parts instead of tweakscaled KW parts...

Sorry I didn't see your comment until now - I am a bit preoccupied with other things, these days, among which is finding a new job/contract as a software engineer so I can eat again. Anyway, I am a bit weary of incorporating parts of existing mods into my own. If the Stanford Torus mod has been abandoned by its developer, it will undoubtedly be difficult to contact him/her and gain permission to adopt those parts. Doing so without permission is sort of an unwritten no-no in the mod community. I think I speak on behalf of most modders when I say that it is one thing to continue development on a mod that has been abandoned for a very long time, and doing so in the spirit of its original scope. However, picking it apart and stealing bits and pieces from it is something entirely different.

That said, I still owe the voters of my survey some kind of science experiment. Perhaps, if I get a bit more free time on my hands in the near future, I could be persuaded to research the finer points of IVAs and create a large science lab for BAE, although I can't promise it will be as large as 10 meters.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm still experiencing the contracts issue with Texture Replacer, unfortunately. Reproduced with BAE, Kopernicus, the Asclepius planet pack, Contract Configurator, Firespitter, Module Manager 2.6.6, and Texture Replacer. AFAIK everything's up to date (and I just downloaded the new version of BAE). Contract packs used in the reproduction were Asclepius, Kerbin Space Station, and Tourism Plus; after I entered career mode and clicked on the Contract Configurator button in the stock toolbar, the Asclepius contract pack didn't appear as loaded.

Did you remember to delete the old BAE folder before installing the new version?

[Whovian]

Did you remember to delete the old BAE folder before installing the new version?

Indeed.

[greystork]

Indeed.

And when you remove BAE, Asclepius loads, I gather? Hmm. Doesn't Asclepius load before BAE? IIRC, they're loaded in alphabetical order. When BAE screws things up, it's usually things after BAE that don't load. I have to admit I'm at a loss on this one...

[Whovian]

And when you remove BAE, Asclepius loads, I gather? Hmm. Doesn't Asclepius load before BAE? IIRC, they're loaded in alphabetical order. When BAE screws things up, it's usually things after BAE that don't load. I have to admit I'm at a loss on this one...

Asclepius loads fine, but its contracts (in GameData/ContractPacks/AscContract) don't; essentially the update seems to have not fixed the bork.

[nightingale]

Sorry, meant to post on this earlier. Here's what happens in this combination to make things break:

1. Texture Replacer runs on all loaded textures and makes them non-readable (saving memory).
   
2. Stock agency loader logic fires. For any agent where there isn't an explicit scaled logo, it reads the unscaled logo in memory and scales it down. In this instance, the unscaled logo is not readable in memory, so the whole thing fails, and it stops trying to load other agencies
   
3. Contract Configurator tries to load contracts, and gets a bunch of "agency doesn't exist" errors. Also affects stock, but a lot less since most of their contracts will just randomly assign an agent.
   

The workaround is to install ATM - because Texture Replacer disables that part of its loading when ATM is installed, and ATM is smarter about not converting certain things.

The fix (well, workaround, since I'd consider this a TR bug and will be heading there next) for you is to provide a scaled down logo. As a bonus, you can also convert your main logo to DDS then (as stock logic will no longer try to downsize it). I'd recommend you do it like I did here - renaming the scaled one from .png to .truecolor will make it so the DDS conversion tool ignores it (so it's a lot harder for users to unknowingly shoot themselves in the foot).

[greystork]

Sorry, meant to post on this earlier. Here's what happens in this combination to make things break:

1. Texture Replacer runs on all loaded textures and makes them non-readable (saving memory).
   
2. Stock agency loader logic fires. For any agent where there isn't an explicit scaled logo, it reads the unscaled logo in memory and scales it down. In this instance, the unscaled logo is not readable in memory, so the whole thing fails, and it stops trying to load other agencies
   
3. Contract Configurator tries to load contracts, and gets a bunch of "agency doesn't exist" errors. Also affects stock, but a lot less since most of their contracts will just randomly assign an agent.
   

The workaround is to install ATM - because Texture Replacer disables that part of its loading when ATM is installed, and ATM is smarter about not converting certain things.

The fix (well, workaround, since I'd consider this a TR bug and will be heading there next) for you is to provide a scaled down logo. As a bonus, you can also convert your main logo to DDS then (as stock logic will no longer try to downsize it). I'd recommend you do it like I did here - renaming the scaled one from .png to .truecolor will make it so the DDS conversion tool ignores it (so it's a lot harder for users to unknowingly shoot themselves in the foot).

Ah, thanks, Nightingale - I had forgotten the details.

Whovian - did you catch that this is a bug in Texture Replacer and not something specific to BAE? Many other mods won't work with TR and without Active Texture Manager installed, either. If you want to use Texture Replacer, please also install Active Texture Manager to avoid this bug.

Edited August 11, 2015 by greystork

[nightingale]

Ah, thanks, Nightingale - I had forgotten the details.

Whovian - did you catch that this is a bug in Texture Replacer and not something specific to BAE? Many other mods won't work with TR and without Active Texture Manager installed, either. If you want to use Texture Replacer, please also install Active Texture Manager to avoid this bug.

True - but making a small change in BAE will also prevent this from happening when users do an incorrect DDS conversion. I only ask because the support requests usually end up on my thread...

[greystork]

True - but making a small change in BAE will also prevent this from happening when users do an incorrect DDS conversion. I only ask because the support requests usually end up on my thread...

Okay, I've pushed an update that should deal with this issue for good, so hopefully you won't hear any misgivings relating to Behemoth Aerospace Engineering in the future.

Edited August 11, 2015 by greystork

[partyphoenix]

this mod keeps making my game crash!!! it doesn't even give me an "oops" window, it just shuts off! please help me.....

[greystork]

this mod keeps making my game crash!!! it doesn't even give me an "oops" window, it just shuts off! please help me.....

You are probably running out of memory. Try installing the Active Texture Management mod.

[greystork]

BAE has been updated for KSP 1.0.5 compatibility.

[129828]

Given that the parts are HUGE, maybe you should make some extra large launch clamps to fit the size

[greystork]

Given that the parts are HUGE, maybe you should make some extra large launch clamps to fit the size

I'll consider it.

[sturmer]

hi there,

im having a small problem with the mod and im not sure if im doing something wrong or not.

my ksp is now on 1.0.5 like everyone elses i guess, so i started up ckan and i could upgrade ur mod via that.

when finished i start up ksp and it starts loading but from the moment it starts to apply the patches it stall's on this part : BAE/Parts/Control/V1/BAEvernor1/BAEvernor1

any idea whats wrong here? in 1.0.4 it worked great

thnx in advance

[greystork]

when finished i start up ksp and it starts loading but from the moment it starts to apply the patches it stall's on this part : BAE/Parts/Control/V1/BAEvernor1/BAEvernor1

I'm afraid I can't replicate the problem on my end. While loading KSP, could you please open the debug window (Alt-F12, Debug tab) and see which error is thrown that stops KSP from loading?

Thanks!