KSC runway approaches.

[Motokid600]

I find the secret to a good landing is a good approach. The less maneuvering I have to do at the last second before touchdown the better. I'm having an awful time landing my shuttle. Even just a few degrees of yaw away from my direction of travel is disastrous when the wheels hit the ground. So I need to avoid making course adjustments at the last second.

Now I'm coming in from the east as you normally would from orbit. You follow the 90 degree heading all the way in and that will get you in the ball park. But when it comes time to really dial the approach my eyeballs are only good for so much. I tend to use the iva view to zoom in and line it up better, but again it's just not enough.

What I need is a docking port alignment indicator for the runway. A mod, or tool or anything that can help me hit the perfect heading to line my craft up with the runway. This way I can concentrate more on my glide angle and nail the landing.

Is there anything I can do?

Edited June 13, 2015 by Motokid600

[Harry Rhodan]

What I need is a docking port alignment indicator for the runway.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/85353

Like this one?

[Motokid600]

Ill have to check that out. I've seen that before, but I didn't think there'd be such a utility in there. Thanks I'll read up on it.

[Geschosskopf]

Another viable solution is to land in the grass nearby and taxi onto the runway .

[Motokid600]

Well with a shuttle ( and FAR ) you are hauling complete ass when you touchdown. So any bump at 200m/s and your done. Thats why i made this thread. At those speeds your landing has to be absolutely perfect.

[Geschosskopf]

Well with a shuttle ( and FAR ) you are hauling complete ass when you touchdown. So any bump at 200m/s and your done.

Airbrakes

[Capt. Hunt]

I use Mechjeb's Spaceplane guidance for a rudimentary ILS. I don't generally trust the auto-land feature, it doesn't seem to work for me. However, if you check the box above the autoland button, Spaceplane Guidance will place a target piper on the nav. ball corresponding to whichever runway you select. You can use that to line up on the runway.

Well with a shuttle ( and FAR ) you are hauling complete ass when you touchdown. So any bump at 200m/s and your done. Thats why i made this thread. At those speeds your landing has to be absolutely perfect.

Also, speedbrakes and (if you have realchutes) drag chutes can help slow your approach. You generally don't want to come in faster then 100 m/s anyway.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Capt. Hunt

[Motokid600]

Airbrakes

Oh i got 'em. Two bursts. One to slow from 350 - 200 then a final brake for landing at around 175m/s id say. Any less then that and

I loose too much lift and i cant keep my glide angle where i need it.

I use Mechjeb's Spaceplane guidance for a rudimentary ILS. I don't generally trust the auto-land feature, it doesn't seem to work for me. However, if you check the box above the autoland button, Spaceplane Guidance will place a target piper on the nav. ball corresponding to whichever runway you select. You can use that to line up on the runway.

Also, speedbrakes and (if you have realchutes) drag chutes can help slow your approach. You generally don't want to come in faster then 100 m/s anyway.

And yea im using a real good chute from that mod that can do the job. The problem is i cant get to that point to open it. I need the wheels to land and be stable before i pull the chute. The problem im having here is achieveing that nice, smooth landing. The MJ spaceplane guidance. Yes it goes haywire if I try to let it do the landing, but i never thought to let it guide me instead. Ill try that as well, thanks.

[RW-1]

Airbrakes

Oleo struts ?

Shock Absorbers ?

For future mods ....

[Warzouz]

Is there anything I can do?

Prerequisite : Plant a flag 100m on each side of the runway.

1- When you approach and the flag is visible (22km ?), double click on it. It becomes a target.

2- Now on your navball make the target flag be perfectly on the 90 or 270 (depending on the direction you come from).

3- When the target marker is on the 90 or 270, make your prograde match the target (the front flag), also on the 90/270

4- Fine tune your landing at 1km from the runway, deploy airbrakes, gears and cut engines.

PS ! Air brakes makes landing very easy. Put then on the back of your ship. when you deploy them, your ship will nose up a little.

(click to enlarge)

Edited June 12, 2015 by Warzouz

[capi3101]

Prerequisite : Plant a flag 100m on each side of the runway.

1- When you approach and the flag is visible (22km ?), double click on it. It becomes a target.

2- Now on your navball make the target flag be perfectly on the 90 or 270 (depending on the direction you come from).

3- When the target marker is on the 90 or 270, make your prograde match the target (the front flag), also on the 90/270

4- Fine tune your landing at 1km from the runway, deploy airbrakes, gears and cut engines.

PS ! Air brakes makes landing very easy. Put then on the back of your ship. when you deploy them, your ship will nose up a little.

http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/6e58d676-546c-422b-bc4f-2672c5352213.jpg

This. Though I might recommend using a rudimentary rover in lieu of flags and then relabeling the thing as a base once it's in position. Why do this? Because the visual range increases from 30 klicks to 100 klicks, giving you more time to get aligned.

How rudimentary of a rover am I talking about? In career, take a Stayputnik, stick a fuel tank, a Wheesley engine, a pair of radial intakes and some bush-plane gear on it, plus a radial chute. That's all you need. Add a battery or solar panel if it makes you nervous. Set the thrust limited down low, and then just give it enough thrust to overcome the inertia. Hit the brakes and pop the chute when it's in position.

If you find you need a third point to help with the alignment, put another one of these at 1 kilometer inland. Additional rovers can be added at five kilometer intervals inland for increased accuracy. You can even use them for a glide slope - take your distance to any given marker, add it to the distance that marker is from the Runway, multiply the result by 100 and add 100 - the result is roughly where you want your altimeter, and from there you can tell if you're high or low.

Myself, I use NavUtilities. But even then, there are merits to having a visual system like this - not the least of which is being able to tell where KSC is from orbit and having a good guess as to where you want to do your de-orbit burn.

[Kelderek]

I'm a big fan of planting flags at either end of the runway, you can see them from miles away and you can use the two of them to see if you are lined up correctly.

[Chaos_Klaus]

You do not need airbrakes do land a shuttle with far. Just come down steep enough and pull up to get maximum drag from your wings. It will stop you from slamming into the ground and you will be slow enough. If not, deploy a drag chute.

Other than that, flags or rovers are great landing aids.

[klesh]

I put flags on either end of the runway and target them if needed. Viola, instant navball indicator.

[quietghost]

If speed is an issue when landing aircraft I recommend learning how to land a real airplane in a simulator, which will help you manage speed coming in for landing. The key here is that for most craft, no more than a 10 degree glideslope is good, and when powered, 5 degrees is ususally the maximum. Notably, those angles are really low, so your final approach should almost hit the hills to the west of KSC before landing eastward, or you should be no higher than the top of the VAB at 2km out landing westward. Again, these are real-life approaches, designed to keep aircraft stress and impact with the ground to a minimum. Kerbals dont care about keeping things intact for longevity, so you can abuse the craft more on landing than in real life.

[Kryten 2X4B 523P]

I use rovers myself, works well.

[Reactordrone]

Also, speedbrakes and (if you have realchutes) drag chutes can help slow your approach. You generally don't want to come in faster then 100 m/s anyway.

Drag chutes also work in the stock game now with the little radial drogue chutes working well as brake parachutes.

[mrclucks]

I tend to go very shallow to control speed and ensure I don't overshoot the runway.

Get around the same altitudr, with lower being ideal, and pull up by a degree or two so you go up slightly and then lose speed and glide down slowly. This method is assuming you can still thrust a bit if you need it and also assuming you're going 100-150m/s.

Combine with drogue shoots at the end to stop even faster and use the double flag method to line up the runway from a distance

[peachoftree]

I do almost all my landings over 100 m/s:P, even in the hills west of KSC