Kerbin Circumnavigation 1.0.4/1.0.5 - Aviator Challenge Continuation

GDJ · July 12, 2015

Here is my submission for the Velocity Circumnavigation flight.

Name of plane: CSA2 (aka The Arrow MkII)

-Big, heavy, and lots of wing and fuel.

-Flight was retrograde (heading west)

-All stock parts as per rules. Craft file is, of course, available upon request.

(Edited this post to keep the clutter off of the thread. This plane did the circumnavigation in 52 minutes 8 seconds.

However, I bested this time later on.)

Edited July 26, 2015 by GDJ
Keeping the clutter down to a dull roar.

nicky4096 · July 12, 2015

that's a sweet plane, although it has waaay to much fuel. each engine should only need about 400 units.

but still, it looks awesome.

Xannari Ferrows · July 12, 2015

Here is my submission for the Velocity Circumnavigation flight.
-Flight was retrograde (heading west)
-All stock parts as per rules. Craft file is, of course, available upon request.

Not polar, not prograde, not radial [i'd hope not], but retrograde!

You really cut it close with that altitude! [i've got my eye on you...]

I guess this means you get another shiny badge to add to your collection now, eh?

Well, what are you waiting for?

http://www.datainterlock.com/Kerbal/circumnavigator%20resized%20velocity.png

PanzerAce · July 12, 2015

What's the mod you guys are using to control altitude and the like?

Xannari Ferrows · July 12, 2015

What's the mod you guys are using to control altitude and the like?

Pilot Assistant.

GDJ · July 12, 2015

For my flight it was completely manual. I kept it around 23,500 +- 500 metres with ascents to 27,000 to 29,999 for cooling down and fuel conservation (yeah, like I needed that! )

- - - Updated - - -

that's a sweet plane, although it has waaay to much fuel. each engine should only need about 400 units.
but still, it looks awesome.

Not with RAPIERS. They sucked back fuel at a peak of 3 units per second, and it took nearly 270 units just to get spun around and up to 23,000 metres. They drink heavy below 15,000 metres. Once you get up past 20,000 metres they sip the fuel at 0.3 units per second.

nicky4096 · July 12, 2015

well, with at 22500m altitude and rapiers, i only use 0.1 units of fuel per second per rapier.

my ascents also drain most of fuel, but only about 100 units per engine.

but, 50 minutes is still pretty good

GDJ · July 12, 2015

well, with at 22500m altitude and rapiers, i only use 0.1 units of fuel per second per rapier.
my ascents also drain most of fuel, but only about 100 units per engine.
but, 50 minutes is still pretty good

Thanks!

For some reason my RAPIERS and Turbojets are complete fuel hogs. I don't know why, but I just make due.

It's possible that my increased fuel consumption is due to the combination of parts, but even a stripped down engine assembly is thirsty.

Edited July 12, 2015 by GDJ

nicky4096 · July 12, 2015

i think the problem might be that since your plane is so heavy, you can't quickly get to the velocities where the rapier really starts working, so you have to burn tons of fuel. try going less steep on the ascent until 400-500 m/s, then the rapiers will speed up like crazy.

anyway, is anyone else getting glitches with command seats crashing KSP?

HelmutK · July 12, 2015

Another update

More fuel, lower altitude...and less control on the final descend :huh: . I have to fix this first.

No more chance to get under 39 in this flight, I have overwrite my quicksave ;.;

GDJ · July 12, 2015

i think the problem might be that since your plane is so heavy, you can't quickly get to the velocities where the rapier really starts working, so you have to burn tons of fuel. try going less steep on the ascent until 400-500 m/s, then the rapiers will speed up like crazy.
anyway, is anyone else getting glitches with command seats crashing KSP?

Good advise and I have tried that several times but to no avail. The plane just likes to gobble up fuel like there is no tomorrow.

Yeah, the plane is heavy and it has alot of wing surface which doesn't help the drag issue much, but it handles like it's a Porsche on the Nurmemburgring.

So far the most economical route from ground to 23,000 metres for me is to:

-Take off.

-stay below 1500 metres until you get to maximum speed (Arrow: 350m/s)

-snap the plane to a 45 degree angle and let it's momentum carry you thru the maneuver (Speed drops a bit to transonic, 9G maneuver)

-hold 45 degrees until 9,000 metres, then taper it down to 20 degrees (The Arrow's speed gradually increases to 600m/s)

-hold until 16,000 metres, bring it down to 10 degrees and hold until 21,000 (Speed really picks up here. Punches past 780m/s rather quickly)

-gradually level off. By this time the Arrow is doing just shy of 1400 m/s.

ExaltedDuck · July 13, 2015

WhenWhen you nose up initially, don't whip it up. Gently (use caps lock and tap w repeatedly for gentler input) nose up to 35-45 degrees so that you keep accelerating. Then start nosing down gently around 8000 to try to get down to around 10-15 degrees by 12000. Then only climb as heating requires. Getting past 1000m/s between 12 and 13 km is aggressive but safe. If your altitude is less than 10 times your speed, you should be ok. Once up to 15000-16000 let it keep rising about 50-100 vertcal m/s until you're up to around 21000. Mach 2-3 below 2000 really chews through fuel but Mach 4+ above 22000 barely sips it. 0.1 per second per rapier at 1700+m/s over 20000m altitude is what the 40 minute planes have been doing. For as much wing area as you have, mid 1600's should be attainable. Above 24000-ish you're going to lose a lot of speed and below 20000, you'll lose a little and suffer excessive compression heating.

Edited July 13, 2015 by ExaltedDuck

nicky4096 · July 14, 2015

yay!

39:17 with 1 engine, and no quickloads except for when my computer crashed!

also, 50 units left... who thinks i can make it on 1 precooler and FL-t400?

Javascript is disabled. View full album

i'll be back

ExaltedDuck · July 14, 2015

nicky- After your previous posts about single engine jets and topspeeds and times, I figured I'd give it a try. Seeing those large square wing surfaces and yout 17-teens top speed made me think a significant improvement could be found through less overall lift (since, in a sense, lift and drag are closely related). I'm not flying it right because the best I've gotten has been about a 39:27 but I see my top speed is just a percent or so higher than yours. (this is in level flight. When set to prograde/full throttle from 21600, it'll get to around 1735 befor ethe atmosphere below 20000 starts slowing it down.)

If you want to play around with it, here's the craft file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/51x21s973odivnw/Retribution%20MkII.craft?dl=0 The way I like to do it is ignite at full throttle, let the engines spool up to 80+ kN, release the docking clamp, get off the runway at 150-ish, start climbing at 250-ish. I think my biggest time loss is that I'd go really steep climb (65-70 degrees) to allow full throttle all the way up. This lets me start nosing down at 8000m and use the wing's G forces to stay below mach 3 until I level off around 14-15 km. And the 39:27 I hit with it was a night time landing with too early a descent. I've set it up with drogue chutes. They're good up to about 550 m/s but I'd recommend not popping them until the runway is less than 10-15m below. [edit to add: I also recommend setting the forward "canard" elevons to pitch only, the rearmost elevons to roll only, and the elevon "wings" to no control reaction. In pilot assistant, it also helps if the vertical speed scalar is bumped up a little (1.3-ish). I was seeing some slight oscillations at 4x accel otherwise.]

The difference in top speed might buy you another 3-4 seconds, all other things being equal.

My personal best is in a 3 engined craft cruising at 1727. I set it down safely in 39:17 but by that point, the 39 barrier had been broken. And because it's really unstable (too much pitch authority) I haven't been inspired to try it too much more.

Edited July 14, 2015 by ExaltedDuck

nicky4096 · July 14, 2015

interesting!

i'l have to check this out!

Xannari Ferrows · July 14, 2015

yay!
39:17 with 1 engine, and no quickloads except for when my computer crashed!
also, 50 units left... who thinks i can make it on 1 precooler and FL-t400?
http://imgur.com/a/B6Bh9
i'll be back

WHOA LOOK AT THE ORANGE!

Certainly an interesting idea you've got here! I wonder how this idea can be formulated into a Sky Arrow design, assuming anyone beats the record.

Did you get attacked by Mr. NaN?

nicky4096 · July 14, 2015

no Mr.NaN.

but, i have a question about your latest sky arrow!

why circular intakes? they have a much worse drag coefficient than shock cones!

Xannari Ferrows · July 14, 2015

Really?

...

[shock cone]

[FONT=courier new]dragModelType = default[/FONT][FONT=courier new]    maximum_drag = 0.3
    minimum_drag = 0.3
    angularDrag = 1.2[/FONT]

[Circular]

[FONT=courier new]dragModelType = default[/FONT][FONT=courier new]        maximum_drag = 0.3
    minimum_drag = 0.3
    angularDrag = 1[/FONT]

Plus the shock cone has a slightly larger axial cross section.

nicky4096 · July 14, 2015

hmm... that is interesting.

we are looking at different things, but i will have to re-calculate the best wings... i'll be back....

- - - Updated - - -

well, for those interested, here are the minimum drag values for all parts in GameData/Squad/Parts/Aero:

advancedCanard minimum_drag = 0.02
aerodynamicNoseCone minimum_drag = 0.1
Airbrake minimum_drag = 0.02
airIntakeRadialXM-G50 minimum_drag = 0.2
avionicsNoseCone minimum_drag = 0.2
basicFin minimum_drag = 0.02
circularIntake minimum_drag = 0.3
ConeA minimum_drag = 0.1
ConeB minimum_drag = 0.1
connector1 minimum_drag = 0.02
connector2 minimum_drag = 0.02
connector3 minimum_drag = 0.02
connector4 minimum_drag = 0.02
connector5 minimum_drag = 0.02
ControlSurface minimum_drag = 0.02
delta minimum_drag = 0.02
delta_small minimum_drag = 0.02
elevon1 minimum_drag = 0.02
elevon2 minimum_drag = 0.02
elevon3 minimum_drag = 0.02
elevon4 minimum_drag = 0.02
elevon5 minimum_drag = 0.02
elevon minimum_drag = 0.02
engineBodyRadial minimum_drag = 0.3
engineNacelle minimum_drag = 0.3
fairingSize1 minimum_drag = 0.2
fairingSize2 minimum_drag = 0.2
fairingSize3 minimum_drag = 0.2
HeatShield1 minimum_drag = 0.2
HeatShield2 minimum_drag = 0.2
HeatShield3 minimum_drag = 0.2
intakeRadialLong minimum_drag = 0.2
intakeShockCone minimum_drag = 0.3
MainWing minimum_drag = 0.02
noseConeAdapter minimum_drag = 0.1
protectiveRocketNoseMk7 minimum_drag = 0.1
ramAirIntake minimum_drag = 0.3
rudder minimum_drag = 0.02
smallNoseCone minimum_drag = 0.1
standardCanard minimum_drag = 0.02
strake minimum_drag = 0.02
structural1 minimum_drag = 0.02
structural2 minimum_drag = 0.02
structural3 minimum_drag = 0.02
structural4 minimum_drag = 0.02
swept1 minimum_drag = 0.02
swept2 minimum_drag = 0.02
sweptWing minimum_drag = 0.02
tailConnectorA minimum_drag = 0.2
tailConnectorB minimum_drag = 0.2
tailfin minimum_drag = 0.02
TailFin minimum_drag = 0.02
wingletAV-R8 minimum_drag = 0.02
wingletAV-T1 minimum_drag = 0.02
wingletDeltaDeluxe minimum_drag = 0.02

Edited July 14, 2015 by nicky4096
damn you, spoilers!

nicky4096 · July 14, 2015

so, i have now calculated the minimum drag to lift rating of various wings.

here are the results:

basicFin 6.0
connector1 10.0
connector2 10.0
connector3 50.0
connector4 1.66666666667
connector5 5.0
ControlSurface 8.6
delta 250.0
delta_small 25.0
elevon1 38.5
elevon2 58.0
elevon3 21.0
elevon4 9.0
elevon5 20.0
elevon 25.0
MainWing 390.0
rudder 174.5
standardCanard 26.0
strake 50.0
structural1 50.0
structural2 50.0
structural3 1.66666666667
structural4 0.833333333333
swept1 5.65
swept2 11.3
sweptWing 6.85
tailfin 3.05
TailFin 13.45
wingletAV-R8 2.5
wingletAV-T1 1.85
wingletDeltaDeluxe 2.16666666667

nicky4096 · July 14, 2015

39:13!

also, imgur hates me for some reason so i have to upload individual images...

cruising speed & alt.:

http://imgur.com/gallery/lP5wAEB/new

20 min mark:

http://postimg.org/image/lolyq5pdr/44002b92/

39:13:

http://postimg.org/image/6ljn8e2ax/5848317c/

sorry for so few pics, when image hosting sites don't all hate me i'll post the rest.

Xannari Ferrows · July 15, 2015

39:13!
also, imgur hates me for some reason so i have to upload individual images...
cruising speed & alt.:
http://imgur.com/gallery/lP5wAEB/new
20 min mark:
http://postimg.org/image/lolyq5pdr/44002b92/
39:13:
http://postimg.org/image/6ljn8e2ax/5848317c/
sorry for so few pics, when image hosting sites don't all hate me i'll post the rest.

Given your track record, I can let the few images qualify.

I'm assuming this is a similar craft, so I will have to write something witty in the description...

nicky4096 · July 15, 2015

thanks!

also, here are the rest:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Xannari Ferrows · July 16, 2015

I'm currently being punished by the giant snowball, so my title is defenseless.

HelmutK · July 17, 2015

I'm currently being punished by the giant snowball, so my title is defenseless.

Not realy:wink:

Maybe, I'll beat this tomorow (F9):

Kerbin Circumnavigation 1.0.4/1.0.5 - Aviator Challenge Continuation

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