KSP Caveman Challenge!

[GoSlash27]

5thHorseman,

I caught episode 3 before you got it linked here.

Dude!! Those approaches to Kerbin had me seriously biting my nails!

Future reference: If it looks like the pirate-ninjas might not hold out, just set the baro trigger on the chute to .5 Atm and trigger it.

That way it'll do a safe deployment even if the battery is totally dead.

Cavemanning is hard,

-Slashy

[micha]

@micha

here have at it

Cheers; saw that as well as SimpleStreamRecorder. Unfortunately neither are in the Debian packaging system and while I haven't tried them, the prebuilt binaries aren't for Debian either so will have to build from source one of these days.

Eh.. what the heck; it's 2 hours later, and I've compile SSR and re-run my launch. Unfortunately the audio didn't work (I should have tested first!) but here's the video:

http://youtu.be/zBWy8k2REpw

The first launch (aborted) starts at 1:30.

The second launch (success) starts at 05:00.

Circularisation burn at 13:00.

Burn for the Mun at 17:10.

Munar encounter at 20:50.

Munar capture burn at 21:40.

Munar deorbit burn at 24:30.

Munar final approach and landing at 30:00.

All done in a single take with only a single revert!

[Superfluous J]

5thHorseman,

I caught episode 3 before you got it linked here.

Dude!! Those approaches to Kerbin had me seriously biting my nails!

You and me both. The crazy part is how one re-entry will be fine, and the next will have stuff overheating all over the place.

Future reference: If it looks like the pirate-ninjas might not hold out, just set the baro trigger on the chute to .5 Atm and trigger it.

That way it'll do a safe deployment even if the battery is totally dead.

I did some testing in episode 4 (see below) and guesstimated that you could actually set it to 0.4, though I think I'd set it to 0.5 if I had to again.

...which I don't! This episode represents the last of our petty cash the HMV Caveman Challenge episodes. Minmus is one rich mine of science!

[Bev7787]

Challenge Accepted

also can I use 1.0.2? I don't feel that 1.0.4 is stable enough for my game

[GoSlash27]

5thHorseman,

Congratulations! You have completed the Caveman Challenge and are hereby inducted into the clan!

These videos should prove very educational for new players.

Best,

-Slashy

- - - Updated - - -

Challenge Accepted

also can I use 1.0.2? I don't feel that 1.0.4 is stable enough for my game

What does the rest of the clan think?

I think there's nothing about 1.02 that's going to make this challenge any easier, so we should allow it.

Best,

-Slashy

[Superfluous J]

5thHorseman,

Congratulations! You have completed the Caveman Challenge and are hereby inducted into the clan!

These videos should prove very educational for new players.

How would that video be... OH you mean MY videos. Thank you

(Note: Thanks for the badge but my .sig is scraping maximum characters as it is and I have things I've left off of it, so I will not be putting it up.It's very appreciated though!)

I think there's nothing about 1.02 that's going to make this challenge any easier, so we should allow it.

The big difference is 1.0.2 has far more forgiving re-entry. I re-entered from Duna at 6.5km/s (It was not your father's transfer orbit) with no heat shield and no problems. In 1.0.4, returning from Minmus was much worse.

However, I think it's still pretty much in the spirit of the challenge. In the end, I lost a few experiments but probably still did just as much work as I would have had I played this in 1.0.2.

...except the extra work where I had to change my underwear

[micha]

What does the rest of the clan think?

I think there's nothing about 1.02 that's going to make this challenge any easier, so we should allow it.

I do know the aero settings got tweaked between releases, but I never played 1.0.2 enough to know whether or not there's much of a difference (dV to orbit, rocket stability during launch/re-entry etc).

You started the challenge, so your call IMHO.

[Moesly_Armlis]

Totally fine with a caveman'ee using the 1.0.2 . version.

If the re-entry heating does nothing then maybe an edit to the re-entry effect value in the save file and set it higher than the slider will go.

Another option is to install DRE for toasty rocks.

[GoSlash27]

Bev7787,

I'm gonna make an executive decision and officially say "go for it".

While unprotected reentry is easier for you to pull off, we have already established that it is entirely possible in 1.04 anyway, so it's not really an overriding advantage.

Best,

-Slashy

[merendel]

I've been thinking about ways to expand this challenge after you complete it. To just toss a spitball at the wall, what do you think about - after you've completed the challenge - allowing a certain number of building upgrades (I think 3 or 4 total), one of them must be R&D and the others (2 or 3 of them) can be any you so choose. Then, you have to complete the tech tree (Up to the 500 cost nodes) without upgrading anything else.

3 (in addition to R&D)is an interesting number. Do you want maneuver nodes? Then you can't have >30 parts AND >18 tons. Do you want decent ships? Then no maneuver nodes for you!

You could call it the ... I don't know ... Bronze Age Challenge. Or the Hunter Gatherer Challenge. Or something.

As I said, just spitballing.

Oh, and the sub-title to episode 3 is "Space Is Hard."

Intresting although I could easily work withen the part limit with a higher weight limit. You can loft a decent amount of fuel on just a few parts when you can use the biger tanks/engiens. Can always send up smaller partheavy modules (science/power packages) on a dedicated launch to link up with the drive sections. Personaly I think I could max out the rest of the tree just upgradeing the RND although it would take a long time. The bigest issue is the number of launches it would take to send craft anywhere considering max payload is only 2-3 tons with t1 buildings. Could link things togeather with JR ports if you send up a truss wired up with fuel lines to hang fuel tanks off of and were creative with locking/unlocking tanks to keep things balanced.

I think my picks in order of priority would be RnD, Launchpad (weight limit up), Tracking center (patched conics). a 4th would be a tossup between more parts, manuver nodes, or a second RnD. I can live with 30 part limits if I can put a large enough tank under what I need to send up. I can live without manuver nodes, they nice but extra Dv can cover for that with patched conics. I can even live with astronaut complex alowing for Eva's by being clever and sticking an external command seat in a utility bay and moveing the kerbal pre launch. a 3rd RnD is intresting just for the final tier of parts opening up extra options.

if I had just 1 RnD unlock and nothing else I'd probably grab comand seats ASAP and load bob into a service bay and send him biome hoping on minmus. Send up a couple of fuel pods(resorce transfer ftw) for the maned probe ship to refuel off of and you could unlock a good chunk of the remaining tech tree in a single pass. He can grab and reset experiments from inside his gheto command pod.

[GoSlash27]

merendel,

I was thinking about the same, but my first priority after R&D would be the astronaut complex. Soil samples and EVA reports are worth a lot of science. Since the Kerbin system itself contains all the science necessary to unlock everything, patched conics are really just a luxury IMO.

The mass limit would be a headache for manned exploration of the Mun and Minmus. My next priority would be to eliminate that with a pad upgrade, but I could still get it done within the 18t weight limit if I just had to (would get grindy).

After that, it's pretty much gravy. I'd pick the tracking station for patched conics and target tracking just because it'd make everything so much easier.

Best,

-Slashy

Edited July 15, 2015 by GoSlash27

[Moesly_Armlis]

I really like the idea of going further but the cave man thing should stay constant. That means no upgrades.

The only thing is that when the vehicle goes to the launchpad it is full of liquid fuel which usually takes the majority of the weight.

Transferring fuel could solve this issue but them the R&D needs upgrading.

In my rough reasoning a caveman should be able to get all the points to complete the tech tree without the need for upgrades.

Besides its only 15730 SP (13*160+12*300+11*550+4*1000).

A craft assembled on the launchpad and then filled with fuel would make some interesting vessels with caveman flight characteristics.

I tested this out the other night and it was not that hard to fly and very entertaining to watch.

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This simulation did not test if it could be Voltron'ed together.

Edited July 16, 2015 by MoeslyArmlis

[merendel]

This simulation did not test if it could be Voltron'ed together.

That looks like it would be a PITA to voltron. remember no rover wheels in the first tier so you'd have to somehow build a transport that uses jet/rocket propultion and plane wheels. well either that or pull a cupcake and assemble it with a vtol jet skycrane although not sure if even he'd pull that off useing jr ports.

And only 15k science you say... I checked how much science there is avalible in the kerbin system with the science we have avalible in this challange with no upgrades.

location singlerun(maxing all experiments)

Minmus 3914(5407.5)

Mun 5016(6930)

Kerbin 1269.2(1753.5) plus a little for low flying thermomiter

Basicly tad over 10k if you only do a single run in every location or nearly 14k if you totaly max out every instrament everywhere. Realisticly your not going to be able to hit that high water mark unless you wana do 50+ missions plus alot of flying/driveing around kerbin. You've gota do at least 1 interplanetary mission, probably a couple.

Edited July 16, 2015 by merendel

[GoSlash27]

Well... you simply can't continue the Caveman Challenge beyond the original without upgrading the R&D. If you do that, then you have resource transfer. If you have that, then you have vehicles that weigh 18t empty, so by extension 100t fueled.

If you have that... you have the whole tech tree (excepting the last tier). And if you upgrade to have access, then you have that too.

It wouldn't be technically difficult or require any additional skill over what was already demonstrated in the original caveman, it'd just be grindy.

Best,

-Slashy

Edited July 16, 2015 by GoSlash27

[merendel]

well arguably going interplanetary without patched conics would be prety damn impressive, let alone doing it with the dv limitations. So ya there would be some added skill needed there. I'm prety sure I could make a ship that would be able to go to jool draging a string of science packages and farm out bop/pol or something but actualy stoping in the jool system would be hell. cant aerobreak off jool safely, cant gravity assist off lathe/tylo lacking patched conics safely. would prety much have to bring enough fuel to do it the inefficent way.

[nightingale]

I have to say... that was far more fun than I expected.

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Well, back to mod development (meaning HyperEdit all the things).

[GoSlash27]

well arguably going interplanetary without patched conics would be prety damn impressive, let alone doing it with the dv limitations. So ya there would be some added skill needed there. I'm prety sure I could make a ship that would be able to go to jool draging a string of science packages and farm out bop/pol or something but actualy stoping in the jool system would be hell. cant aerobreak off jool safely, cant gravity assist off lathe/tylo lacking patched conics safely. would prety much have to bring enough fuel to do it the inefficent way.

It would definitely be impressive, but you don't have to go interplanetary to gather enough science to complete the tree.

Best,

-Slashy

Nightingale,

Congratulations and kudos! I will get you inducted this afternoon.

Best,

-Slashy

[Terwin]

Is the Science alert mod permitted? https://kerbalstuff.com/mod/424/ScienceAlert

Seems like it would help make sure you did not miss any science.

(I am hoping to manage the challenge without going more than 260km from Kerbin(just into high orbit)

[GoSlash27]

Nightingale,

Congratulations on completing the Caveman Challenge! Welcome to the clan!

Best,

-Slashy

- - - Updated - - -

Terwin,

Sorry, but I've got to disallow that. The fact that it would help is exactly the reason why it mustn't be used for this.

Apologies,

-Slashy

[Moesly_Armlis]

That video is not available here in the Great White North.

@Slashy

A great mod idea for this challenge would be ROCKets. Just a little re-texture of the command pod and we could launch Rocks And Boulders into space.

There already is an asteroid texture available as an attachable part but it is an easter egg.

Uggh!

Edited July 17, 2015 by MoeslyArmlis

[Xannari Ferrows]

I have been trying to do this since the first day it came out... But I keep. Getting. Attacked. By. Mr. NaN.

[nicky4096]

would a re-install help?

[Xannari Ferrows]

That only makes it angrier. Viruses hate reinstalls. Especially this one! It's all kinds of bananas.

[Bev7787]

Bev7787,

I'm gonna make an executive decision and officially say "go for it".

While unprotected reentry is easier for you to pull off, we have already established that it is entirely possible in 1.04 anyway, so it's not really an overriding advantage.

Best,

-Slashy

ok thanks

EDIT: expect a few weeks for my entry as I'm really busy right now.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Bev7787

[Terwin]

I kind of expected that Science alert would not be permitted, but I wanted to check just in case.

Created a new 1.0.4 directory last night and only 6 tech tree nodes short at this point(~520 science needed).

Checking what is needed(1188 total science) vs what is available(23.4/landed biome(20?), 31.2/splashed biome(6?), 9.1/flying low biome(9)[+5.6 per jumping kerbal eva if still possible], and 277.9 global(some flying low, all flying high, all orbital+high orbital), I will need either at least 17 jumping kerbal EVAs(possibly up to 21 available, possibly only 9) or to find a way to get badlands/splashed, mountains/splashed and highlands/splashed. Replacing one of those 3 with water/landed would still leave me short by 5.3, assuming any of them are even possible)

note: I am assuming that I can get icecaps both /landed and /splashed but I have not yet verified this. (I have successfully gotten shores, grassland, and tundra both /landed and /splashed)

At worst I could need to get an additional 88 science from testing contracts(4 points so far)