Career mode missions worthless?

[Moh1336]

Contracts are often require a little bit of thought.

Just because you're taking tourists for a ride doesn't mean you can't use the opportunity to do other things like science experiments and the like. It really depends on how early you are in career to what you can do to make the trip worth while. A basic rocket capable of Kerbal Orbit isn't going to cost you too much, but you do want to design it with multiple contracts in mind.

For example a recent contract I had for Ferrying 5 Tourists and a contract for landing a station on the Mun.

Now the vessel I use for tourists that want to goto Minmus/Mun costs 262,038 (includes the ports/antenna for the Mun Station contract) and the contract for the Mun station landing was 78,416 advance and 208,129 on completion. Now yes, the total amount would be just over 20k more than the cost, but a 20k return isn't much when you consider the expense. So I took the tourists with me. My completion total was in excess of 688,731 well worth the trip, this was just to tourist Newsy completing her full itinerary with the Mun landing.

The point being, as I am sure has already been mentioned. Doing multiple contracts in one go is often the best way to do things when it comes to saving money. See what you have, see what you are capable of achieving with your tech level and make it work for you, and don't forget that you don't have to do contracts immediately, most of them have deadlines of years so if need be, accept the contracts and just hold onto them until you can do multiple ones together. It's best to upgrade your mission control building early so that you can store contracts as some of them, although maybe out of reach, give great advance bonuses.

[Jouni]

You can also play with the difficulty sliders at the start of a game. I personally think the game begins once the tech tree is done so I like to increase the science rewards to 200% to reduce grindy, repetitive, and expensive Mun trips.

I feel that the game is over, once you have completed the tech tree. There's a nice feeling of progression, if you refuse to grind science and fly as ambitious missions as your current technology reasonably allows. Every time you launch a ship for a new mission, it feels much more capable and advanced than the previous one.

In my current career mode game, I flew mission to Duna before I had unlocked docking ports. Then I completed a mission to Ike, followed by probes to Eve and Gilly. Next I launched shuttles to Bop and Pol, unlocking nuclear engines between the missions. The Pol mission unlocked large docking ports, so I decided to land on Tylo next. Now I'm in the middle of a Dres mission, and I'm still far from completing the tech tree.

My typical profit margins for interplanetary missions are 90-95%, even though the ships are much bigger than would be technically necessary. To keep the science from advancing too fast, I pretend that biomes don't exist, ignore the difference between high/low orbits, only do EVA reports on surface, and keep the amount of science instruments to a minimum. I still haven't figured out what the science lab does this time (in 1.0), even though the Dres mission carries one as a decorative element.

[Rune]

Hey all! Started playing Kerbal a month or so ago and although I'm rather enjoying it and having a good time and all, the Career mode was one of the things I've been waiting for since I'm not much for sandbox style "do whatever you want" I like a lot of things about it but...

None of the missions in the Career mode seem worth doing.

Take 2 Kerbals on a sub orbital flight for less than 20k reward? Subtracting the cost of the actual ship that's not a lot of profit. Even a cheap ship that can break 70,000 is going to cost more than 10k prolly.

Test basic jet engine in flight? Sure sounds easy enough...oh wait it has to be above 13,000 ft at over 400 m/s. I couldn't even achieve 400 m/s in a flat dive at full power from 13,000 feet with 3 of the basic "weasely" engines. So what am I supposed to do? Attach them to a rocket and just turn them on for a sec? That doesn't sound like very much fun.

Observe some random point in flight below 17k? Sounds easy enough...or it would be if it wasn't half way around the world so it takes 20 mins of 4x speed watching my plane fly in a straight line.

Is it just me or are they hardly ever worth doing? Especially in the early game. Am I missing something? They don't seem fun or especially profitable. Thanks in advance for any light you could shine on the matter.

Two hints:

One, you can cancel contracts to get new ones offered to you if you don't like what you are seeing.

Two, there's nothing stopping you from completing more than a contract at a time.

Example: my latest career money-making mission took a Spatha (160k on the runway including payload), that carried a satellite capable of fulfilling two contracts (equatorial orbits at different altitudes, for 80k each without advances), while it rescued a couple of kerbals (growing the rooster and scoring 50k for each). I also brought up a ~10mT tug for a station and left the extra fuel there (I had more than 1k fuel and oxi unspent at that time). Total balance for the mission? About +300k and two new kerbals, once you factor in the runway recovery of the spaceplane.

Rune. And it took about 5hrs of gametime, so you can do such thing while a ship is flying to Mun and finish before it gets there.

[Chibbity]

Thanks for all the responses guys! It seems to me that I should be more picky about which contracts I take and perhaps I should consider dialing up the science/cash rewards in the difficulty selector. I've always kind of been a "vanilla" mode purist who hates changing any sliders but perhaps I should make an exception in order to avoid the "grind" and keep moving ahead in the game.

Sounds like the contracts get more interesting/doable towards the mid game as well. So far I've achieved Orbit and all that but haven't gone to the Mun so I'd say I'm still in the early game. Really looking forward to unlocking more parts and designing more complex ships, anyone have an opinion on double science rewards? I saw one fellow suggest it but I don't want to unlock everything too fast either. I guess what I'm asking is do most of you use normal 100% science rewards? If so, was it a grind?

Thanks again for the responses/help, I really appreciate it! I should'ave known a game like this would have a knowledgeable and helpful community!

[klgraham1013]

KSP is one of the few games I know where people defend poor mission design. Side-quest design has been lambasted for it's simplicity and drudgery in so many games for so many years. Fetch quests and kill "x" of "x" quests are a common gripe among RPG players. No one's defending them because you can "decline" them; because they're optional. Would a game not be better if the developer strove to make all quests enjoyable?

True, in real life, not all contracts are fun, but I think that's the sort of realism we would all be happy to do with out.

[tater]

If you had an budget there would have to be some "negative" time based mechanic to avoid money just becoming infinite.

Yeah, things would actually have to take time instead of exploring the whole kerbin SoI, and unlocking most of the tech tree way before the first good Duna window.

[Korizan]

Hey all! Started playing Kerbal a month or so ago and although I'm rather enjoying it and having a good time and all, the Career mode was one of the things I've been waiting for since I'm not much for sandbox style "do whatever you want" I like a lot of things about it but...

None of the missions in the Career mode seem worth doing.

Test basic jet engine in flight? Sure sounds easy enough...oh wait it has to be above 13,000 ft at over 400 m/s. I couldn't even achieve 400 m/s in a flat dive at full power from 13,000 feet with 3 of the basic "weasely" engines. So what am I supposed to do? Attach them to a rocket and just turn them on for a sec? That doesn't sound like very much fun.

Is it just me or are they hardly ever worth doing? Especially in the early game. Am I missing something? They don't seem fun or especially profitable. Thanks in advance for any light you could shine on the matter.

Actually the contracts are about getting you cash to do what you want in the game.

And yes Stick the jet engine on top of a Hammer SRB with some fins and a RGU and let it fly, quick and cheap.

Sometimes contracts a good way to have some fun doing something as oddly as possible and get paid to do it

And the most important bit is they open up better contracts.

Think of contracts as a way to pay your bills or your job.

[Jart]

Hint if you want to do tourist sub-orbitals super cheap in stock. 6 pieces Top down Sputnik probe, Capsule, 2 chutes for zero torque,separator, thumper. tweak it, hey you do not even need all the fuel. Oh heck add another 4 cheap fins if you want, but you are just going straight up.

On normal career.

first flight upgrade Jeb, tweaked hammer, upgrade the contracts building

2nd flight hey you have liquid engine and the little tanks = Orbit! No problem with 30 parts leave the science behind.

Now you are swimming in cash and 7 contract pick.

Combo crazy that 3rd flight. All the cash you need to upgrade whatever you want.

If you do not want to combo, or small combos a single hammer can really do amazing things for super cheap.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Jart

[regex]

KSP is one of the few games I know where people defend poor mission design.

Yeah, it's baffling, especially when it's not exactly the missions themselves but the entire cumbersome mission system.

[ygarl]

Hey all! Started playing Kerbal a month or so ago and although I'm rather enjoying it and having a good time and all, the Career mode was one of the things I've been waiting for since I'm not much for sandbox style "do whatever you want" I like a lot of things about it but...

None of the missions in the Career mode seem worth doing.

Take 2 Kerbals on a sub orbital flight for less than 20k reward? Subtracting the cost of the actual ship that's not a lot of profit. Even a cheap ship that can break 70,000 is going to cost more than 10k prolly.

Test basic jet engine in flight? Sure sounds easy enough...oh wait it has to be above 13,000 ft at over 400 m/s. I couldn't even achieve 400 m/s in a flat dive at full power from 13,000 feet with 3 of the basic "weasely" engines. So what am I supposed to do? Attach them to a rocket and just turn them on for a sec? That doesn't sound like very much fun.

Observe some random point in flight below 17k? Sounds easy enough...or it would be if it wasn't half way around the world so it takes 20 mins of 4x speed watching my plane fly in a straight line.

Is it just me or are they hardly ever worth doing? Especially in the early game. Am I missing something? They don't seem fun or especially profitable. Thanks in advance for any light you could shine on the matter.

I just slap 2 or 3 capsules around a central capsule (lots of the structural bits holding them to a top central point above the centre capsule - parachutes on all the outer capsules, and make sure - in the name of all that's holy - you use a pretty shallow re-entry profile. Don't just blast straight up, and then fall down!

[Jart]

For the random spots to fly over or under, Instead of flying, I often will just build what I call flop and drop, again usually a tweaked chemical or 2. Good for honing nav skills. Add in a tourist if you please.

[Joonatan1998]

Yeah, things would actually have to take time instead of exploring the whole kerbin SoI, and unlocking most of the tech tree way before the first good Duna window.

I mean, if all things that happen when time passes are beneficial then players can just leave timewarp on for a few hours and "win".

Positive things:

Rockets getting built.

More money over time.

Negative things:

Life support consumed

Reputation decay. (maybe the budget depends on reputation?)

Deadlines

Other things:

transfer windows

[mikegarrison]

I feel that the game is over, once you have completed the tech tree.

In theory I don't feel like that, but in practice I tend to start losing interest very soon after I do unlock the whole tree. For one thing, I get so used to flying missions in order to pull all the science out of one biome or even multiple biomes. Then once science is "done", I start wondering what to do when I visit a body. If I'm not there to suck up all the science I can, what am I there for?

[Korizan]

Well most of the missions are generated randomly, and as such you get some pretty weird ones and even some that can't be completed.

I don't know if it is possible but if Squad could add in a way for people to add missions into the game well...

Not sure how much it would change if it would add more depth or if would be abused with 1 billion fund rewards.

or maybe the squad could hold a competition of story lines to add into the game or or or.

The point is as long as the missions are generated by a computer they really aren't going to change all that much.

So you basically do the missions as a side line to progress your career and to fund the stuff you really want to do in the game.

[Terwin]

In theory I don't feel like that, but in practice I tend to start losing interest very soon after I do unlock the whole tree. For one thing, I get so used to flying missions in order to pull all the science out of one biome or even multiple biomes. Then once science is "done", I start wondering what to do when I visit a body. If I'm not there to suck up all the science I can, what am I there for?

I thought that is what challenges are for.

I know that I plan to start running through the various forum challenges once I have gotten proficient at interplanetary missions.

Also, I downloaded the community tech tree, so I have plenty of high-price nodes to unlock even after emptying the Kerbin SOI of science(not that there is anything in those nodes, mind you)

[mikegarrison]

I thought that is what challenges are for.

I know that I plan to start running through the various forum challenges once I have gotten proficient at interplanetary missions.

Also, I downloaded the community tech tree, so I have plenty of high-price nodes to unlock even after emptying the Kerbin SOI of science(not that there is anything in those nodes, mind you)

You still reach an end to the CTT.

As for the challenges, I have not really even opened that part of this forum. Maybe I will someday. I mostly make up my own challenges.

[basic.syntax]

... but haven't gone to the Mun so I'd say I'm still in the early game. Really looking forward to unlocking more parts and designing more complex ships, anyone have an opinion on double science rewards?

I wouldn't. Science rewards are better (multiplier effect) the farther out you go, if you haven't been to the Mun and Minimus, it's understandable that Science will feel really grindy. You really need to get there, and back a few times. Do all the EVA's and run all the science packages you can in every situation: in orbit, flying low, landed. It's hard to see biome/region boundaries, but each one is another science opportunity; every huge crater on the Mun is a different one. EVA in low orbit will tell you what you are over, and the surface scanner (when you get it unlocked) while landed.

[FancyMouse]

In theory I don't feel like that, but in practice I tend to start losing interest very soon after I do unlock the whole tree. For one thing, I get so used to flying missions in order to pull all the science out of one biome or even multiple biomes. Then once science is "done", I start wondering what to do when I visit a body. If I'm not there to suck up all the science I can, what am I there for?

Find all easter eggs! There is already a mod (contract pack) that generates contracts to help you walk through all easter eggs. Really worth a try.

[moronwrocket]

Yes, I heartily recommend Contract Configurator and all the associated mod packs. They offer contracts for repeat science, contracts for filling out science (instead of yet another temperature report from the Mun's surface, the contract asks for a temp report from an unexplored biome), sane space station contracts for Kerbin, Mun, and Minmus - with expansions, crew rotations, and crew evacuations, and better tourist contracts.

As far as time - I use Kerbal Construction Time, which helps prevent Kessler Syndrome by forcing me to not launch 100 vessels in the first week of the game.

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

I hate to say it again and again, but the Contracts need a MAJOR overhaul.

[monstah]

I use Contract Configurator to block all the stupid part testing, satellite, and survey contracts (and more, actually), and instead concentrate on things that make me money while I do what I want. I also jack up the number of generated contracts to 30 which gives me much more choice in the matter.

About that last part, I'm looking at Contract Configurator user manual and all I see is how to block contracts. How do you increase the amount generated?

[nightingale]

About that last part, I'm looking at Contract Configurator user manual and all I see is how to block contracts. How do you increase the amount generated?

That's not Contract Configurator functionality - in /Squad/Contracts/contracts.cfg there's a setting for the amount of offered contracts (don't know the name of the attribute offhand).

[regex]

About that last part, I'm looking at Contract Configurator user manual and all I see is how to block contracts. How do you increase the amount generated?

** <KSP ROOT>/GameData/Squad/Contracts/Contracts.cfg **

        AverageAvailableContracts = 30

E: I daresay that, alone, would help quite a bit with contract tedium.

Edited July 14, 2015 by regex

[Chibbity]

I wouldn't. Science rewards are better (multiplier effect) the farther out you go, if you haven't been to the Mun and Minimus, it's understandable that Science will feel really grindy. You really need to get there, and back a few times. Do all the EVA's and run all the science packages you can in every situation: in orbit, flying low, landed. It's hard to see biome/region boundaries, but each one is another science opportunity; every huge crater on the Mun is a different one. EVA in low orbit will tell you what you are over, and the surface scanner (when you get it unlocked) while landed.

Thanks for the advice, good to know things only get easier from here on out. I think I'll stick to vanilla like you recommended as I'd have trouble being proud of my accomplishments otherwise. The research tree can look really daunting to a new player especially at the rate you earn science in the early game. I haven't even upgraded my R&D department yet but I was still kind of taken aback to realize the next row of unlocks was more than 100 research apiece.

On a slightly related note, can anyone comment on whether its worth it to focus on unlocks that can produce more science over regular parts? Or is that getting too meta-game? What about upgrading to be able to take soil samples? Is it enough extra science points to warrant the cash?

Just as a small update, I've started a new campaign game on normal and I'm using the unpaid research strategy to sacrifice rep for more science, I'm getting things done a lot cheaper and more efficiently than before as well as being a lot pickier about which contracts I accept, thanks again to whom ever mentioned that you can cancel contracts w/o accepting them first!

Thanks again everyone...Mun, here I come!

[regex]

On a slightly related note, can anyone comment on whether its worth it to focus on unlocks that can produce more science over regular parts? Or is that getting too meta-game? What about upgrading to be able to take soil samples?

How fast do you want to progress through the tech tree? That will also dictate your mission profile. Once you know your way around orbit, and how to get there, the game is pretty much your oyster and you can freely decide how best you want to play the game. Personally, I find unlocking the upgraded pad and VAB, plus the tracking station, open up far more possibilities than the R&D facility, especially since Duna, Ike, and Gilly are quite doable on Poodles and Terriers. Hell, I think I even sent a mission to Dres on a Poodle, and I wouldn't hesitate to try for Jool or Eeloo. Moho might make me pause, but if the orbiter were small enough it'd be fine.

E: Basically stock KSP gives you such ridiculous payload fractions in a tiny toy solar system that, so long as you can get to orbit, nearly any mission is feasible. Once you know what you're doing it's easy mode; the only thing you have to fight is wobbly rockets and part counts.

Edited July 14, 2015 by regex