[WIP][1.8.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]

[tater]

I found some good info about USI-LS. I went ahead and asked about the supply usage of 16.2 kg/day. @RoverDude said that the figure comes from NASA saying that each astronaut uses about 12kg/day of water that is recycled by the LS system for things like hygiene. So the USI-LS values include this, which recyclers then mitigate. Throw guys in a pod with no special equipment, and they need loads of water. Add recycling equipment, and you need not drag all that water up there. Makes sense.

He also said that the next major update will reduce that value from 16.2, to a little over 10kg/day (basically 64% of the human number).

 

 

[Shadowmage]

1 hour ago, Pappystein said:

Yep that is one of many possible outcomes.   ALL of them are bad...  BUT it is a nice fireworks show

@raidernick Is doing a Great job but cant even touch them until 1.2 assuming the exiting .mu file will work.  

 

 

*UNRELATED* I am pleased to report that I have no Docking/un-docking issues in the current launch cycle for my 2nd Kerbin station.  I have 5 parts in (DOS and TKS derived parts mostly thusfar) and everything is behaving correctly...  well as correctly as a pre-release can.  

*RE my previous posts on Docking ports...*   it APPEARS that Connected Living space bombs the ports out of you try to move a Kerbal through a blocked path.   In going through my limited notes on Kerbal Contract Station 1, I noticed that I had tried to move a Kerbal from a habitat can to a science lab before I had issues un-docking.

 

VERY MINOR weird glitch with the tracking solar panels pm tje mew station parts.  Every time I come back to the scene they "Re-aquire" their sun pointing as if they have been out of proper alignment for days...   Even if I only JUST left the scene for 5 seconds.   I will try again with my new station once I get the next 3 launches up (later tonight.)   Currently my station is running on the DOS attached as built panels and a few stocks ones.  

 

Good to hear on the docking ports.  And interesting find regarding CLS;  I'll make note of that to do some investigation.  They may be doing some config-based parsing for docking ports, and not finding any in the config for those parts, bomb out somewhere.

Solar panels -- indeed; they do not persist their rotation at all.  Known issue/intentional implementation simplification.  Though, would be fairly easy to track their -last updated- position and reload that; but doesn't account for any of the time that you were away.  Could possibly do a forced re-orientation on them during part-initialization to line up with the current sun angle if it is not occluded, else persist the last-updated position... hmm... will keep that in mind during my upcoming code cleanup pass.

 

59 minutes ago, tater said:

I found some good info about USI-LS. I went ahead and asked about the supply usage of 16.2 kg/day. @RoverDude said that the figure comes from NASA saying that each astronaut uses about 12kg/day of water that is recycled by the LS system for things like hygiene. So the USI-LS values include this, which recyclers then mitigate. Throw guys in a pod with no special equipment, and they need loads of water. Add recycling equipment, and you need not drag all that water up there. Makes sense.

He also said that the next major update will reduce that value from 16.2, to a little over 10kg/day (basically 64% of the human number).

 

 

Yah, those number sound a bit more reasonable when you include sanitation-water use, though probably still a bit on the high-side for the size of a kerbal (and the 6->24 hour difference; I'de expect closer to ~4kg/day for 6-hour days).  Thanks for the investigation on it, and good to hear that it'll be getting a bit of a change in the future.

Not really much I can do about it;  will have to balance the parts currently for the 16.2kg/day use, and will have to re-balance them whenever USI-LS sees its overhaul/update.  But as they are all placeholder/prototype parts, and I can freely play with the dry-mass to counteract/fix any discrepancies, its not a big deal.

[tater]

Just thought I'd throw this in here, as it shows the end caps.

[tater]

On 8/11/2016 at 6:22 AM, Jimbodiah said:

Is there any chance to get back the old lander engines as "depricated" parts until the lander core gets an overhaul? I really miss using sstu for (multi-stage) landers.

 

Entry:

 

 

Drogues:

 

 

Ascent: 

 

 

(I'd love to see the gap where the legs/solar/mono used to be filled in with even just the old mono tank (fixed, gap filler, no functionality).

Edited December 19, 2017 by tater

[tater]

It's a little twitchy, but I can still get staged landers to work in current SSTU.  

This particular craft is overkill for stock, it would have landed and taken off without staging propulsively alone. It's a design that would be a little tighter in 3.2X, and I think it might work in 6.4X (in the 2 upscaled versions I might have a large heat shield for entry.

[StickyScissors]

Ehr, is there a way to -not- have fuel in the swappable nosecones and instead have them be purely structural? Something other than having to remove fuel preferably. And i guess while we'ere on that topic, is it possible to integrate stock nosecones into the model swapping lineup?

[Jimbodiah]

8 hours ago, tater said:

 

(I'd love to see the gap where the legs/solar/mono used to be filled in with even just the old mono tank (fixed, gap filler, no functionality).

Myeah, this is what we're limited to at the moment. It's not really a 2-stage lander, it just drops a tank and most of the time it will get stuck on the engine (colliders). It's possible to offset the engines a little bit into the tanks, but nothing that will allow you to use stock legs due to the height of the bells. I'm using SpaceX legs, but they look funky most of the times.

 

 

 

Above is a single-stage lander in SSRSS (1/10 RSS) when I was still playing that.

Gratuitous Orion shot.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Jimbodiah

[tater]

I put the engine (singular) on the ascent stage----but I did this before as well. Why carry 2 engines? 

[Jimbodiah]

Because: LEM  

Single stage needs to much dV for the return trip. I tried making a lander with stacked hollow lander tanks, but they always get stuck on the engine when separating unless I make the hole so big that there is almost no fuel left and it just looks awful.

yes yes: nag nag :))  I just liked the old landers and never used anything else. KSP/Unity complicating things doesn't help either, so not pointing at Mage, I just want my old landers back until Mage comes up with a new concept. Will test the 1.0.5 version engines later today and will report my findings.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Jimbodiah

[Jimbodiah]

3.30 was the last 105 version, the engines work, but also get stuck in the LC tank upon separating (collider issues). So no-go on sstu landers.

[tater]

My images above were with the current build. The merlin is firing through the hole in the LC tank, and it separates.

Also current SSTU:

 

 

^^^that's pretty much a "go!" on SSTU landers.

Edited August 12, 2016 by tater

[Shadowmage]

Seriously, poodleing about problems caused by the Unity update is not going to get you anywhere.  You can thank Unity for those problems and for the current state of the Landers and how broken they are.

Anyway, see you all later.  I'm taking a break from KSP for a bit, may or may not be back.  My motivation was already low and dealing with an entire page of Jimbodiah poodleing about landers has killed the last of it.  So.. .thanks.  I guess I needed  break anyway.

[tater]

23 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

Seriously, poodleing about problems caused by the Unity update is not going to get you anywhere.  You can thank Unity for those problems and for the current state of the Landers and how broken they are.

Anyway, see you all later.  I'm taking a break from KSP for a bit, may or may not be back.  My motivation was already low and dealing with an entire page of Jimbodiah poodleing about landers has killed the last of it.  So.. .thanks.  I guess I needed  break anyway.

They still work, as I demonstrated above, one person being persnickety... is one person.

Seriously, SSTU best KSP part mod, ever, IMHO---Unity issues you have no control over and all. 

EDIT:

I should have added it's perhaps the most innovative part mod, ever. Procedural has been done, but in addition to doing it better, the mount/adaptor/engine clusters stuff is ground-breaking.

Edited August 12, 2016 by tater

[_Augustus_]

40 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

Seriously, poodleing about problems caused by the Unity update is not going to get you anywhere.  You can thank Unity for those problems and for the current state of the Landers and how broken they are.

Anyway, see you all later.  I'm taking a break from KSP for a bit, may or may not be back.  My motivation was already low and dealing with an entire page of Jimbodiah poodleing about landers has killed the last of it.  So.. .thanks.  I guess I needed  break anyway.

Noo! I love this mod! I can't go back to Tantares, I can't!

[RedParadize]

@Shadowmage It make me sad that you feel like this. There is one thing really I want to say, I like many others, will ask for allot small personal change or additional stuff from you. The reason is that we are big fan of you work. You are one of the most, if not the most capable modder in KSP and we feel that everything is within your reach. On top of it you provide a top of the line support. The result is predictable, we will always ask for more, but keep in mind that you are not obligated to accept any request and answer every question. It is entirely up to you to decide the level of involvement you want to have and we will gladly take what you have for us.

If I can suggest one thing (Yeah, I'm doing it again.). You should release what's currently done. Your baby deserve to be known. For whats in progress, take your time, and if it doesn't happen then so be it. If you feel so you most likely could find some other modder to help you with the stuff you don't want to do.

My sincere apology for all the stupid request I post. Many thanks for everything.

Have a nice break!

Edited August 12, 2016 by RedParadize

[RedParadize]

1 hour ago, tater said:

I should have added it's perhaps the most innovative part mod, ever. Procedural has been done, but in addition to doing it better, the mount/adaptor/engine clusters stuff is ground-breaking.

Everything in SSTU is ground-breaking. Whats in progress have just as much potential, if not more. Take just the multi docking port, that alone is enough to be a revolution in itself. Just that code could be have many application. And thats just one of the many feature.

[tater]

Take  some time off. Don't release anything, don't worry about it. This isn't about other people, it's about your own sanity. Everybody needs a break sometimes. I was the modder, not the "customer" in Silent Hunter 4, and people can be very demanding of stuff they get for free  .

That said, it's also frustrating when you work hard on a mod, and there is no ongoing discussion in your thread, but with engaged discussion comes the odd demanding user. I had one mod like that (a complete rework of all the merchant shipping in SH4, complete with period appropriate, randomized livery (Japanese Dazzle paint). Anyway, the few posters in the thread sort of kept us going, minus a few involved people posting, we'd have just quit. We hit a major stumbling block with some z-sorting issues, and my partner quit. Only after I abandoned it did people start posting in the thread, lol. So it cuts both ways. 

Edited August 12, 2016 by tater

[Guest]

As a writer, I understand how unreasonable criticism and incessant nitpicking can be terribly disheartening. I know the feeling of wanting to chuck it all and go feed pigeons rather than put any more effort into what once was enjoyable. But it didn't take long before all those orphaned ideas and unfinished plans gnawed at me enough to get back to the work. I learned to tune out the noise - or better yet, tell the persistent noisemakers to sod off - and enjoy pursuing my vision on my terms.

Take some time for yourself. Get some space and let yourself breathe. You're onto something extraordinary with SSTU. The more I use the parts you've crafted, the more I admire your accomplishment. You'll be missed during your hiatus, but rest assured we'll be over the Mun when you return. Be good to yourself.

[RedParadize]

I think we should all post picture of craft we made using SSTU. That would bring a positive note to this. I have few unusual setup I will like to share anyway.

[tater]

20 minutes ago, RedParadize said:

I think we should all post picture of craft we made using SSTU. That would bring a positive note to this. I have few unusual setup I will like to share anyway.

I was actually going to suggest something similar. That was sort of my point with the lander images I made last night. I clicked on a stock part last night because I hadn't done so in a while. Yuck! So unsightly. It's funny, even in career mode testing I won't use an OP stock part vs what I have available in SSTU simply because they look so very bad in comparison.

[Shadowmage]

Thanks for the support guys, and I didn't mean to single out Jimbodiah; he's not really the cause of my frustration, merely the 'last straw' as it were.  Mostly I've been far too busy at work lately, which leaves me worn out and exhausted by the time I get home.  Compound that with the lack of wheels that are usable for my purposes, and it leaves little motivation or will to work on things.  I try to spend what time I can working on modding... but lately that's been on the order of only a few minutes a night. 

I'm not even happy with the situation with the lander parts, but there is little/nothing I can do about it.  The legs were broken by Unity5, as were the colliders that many of the parts used (due to no more support for non-convex mesh colliders); my choices became to remove the broken bits and release what was left as best I could (which is what I did), or remove all of the parts entirely until I had proper time to rework them (which would likely be sometime during the winter/next spring).

I don't think I'll be away too long.  Perhaps a week or two; work is starting to slow down a bit, in addition to wrapping up a fairly major/stressful/rushed project hopefully next week.  If I think that I'll need more time than that I'll work on finding someone to maintain it in the interim, but doubt it will be needed.  Mostly I need to de-stress for a bit, and finish up the work on the wheel-replacement so I no longer have that hanging over my head (lack of working wheels; that will help substantially with my motivation, and time).

I would release what I have ready... but I've already done that in the form of the prototype station parts; with being away camping last week close to nothing new has been done with them.

In the meantime if you guys run into any problems please post them up on the github issue tracker to help keep things organized (as I may not be watching the thread much for a bit).  That will make sure that I see them and they do not get lost/forgotten in the interim.

[RedParadize]

If I could I would pay you a couple of beer. You have a patreon or something? As a reward for your past contribution, no string attach for future stuff.

[JoseEduardo]

As Tater pointed out, SSTU is the best part mod for KSP, by far, no other mod has this level of per-part customization and is so easy to add new stuff in from the user-end... I'd hate see it sink like many in the past did...

[tater]

It's good to take a break. Heck, play the game a little. You can be "testing" all the time, and never really play. Try a rescale mod, even 3.2X... it's like playing KSP for the first time all over again since you have no idea what works  .

[RedParadize]

Yeah, in fact you update your stuff so often that I barely have the time to test everything before the next update! I could actually play the game while you are away!