[WIP][1.8.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]

[tater]

Yeah, like the alignment check on the welded port now in SSTU.

I just don't like the look of a proper docking port being used to attach tanks. In the gold tanks above, I'd want the part to basically look like a sort of flat rail. Alignment for docking would be easy, because it'd be linear (then obviously it can snap).

[Jimbodiah]

I don't mind, in real life you would use docking ports for this

[tater]

I think they would use the kind of attachment that was most effective for the least mass. It need not always transfer propellant or crew, it needs to be secure under thrust, it likely needs electronic attachments to control the added stages (be they drop tanks, or full stages).

[Jimbodiah]

That is why we have autostrut now

[Pappystein]

Just posted this in the BDB forum... my mission would not have worked if not for SSTU so I though I would spread the screenshot tax around here as well...

 

[Jimbodiah]

Started a new RSS career in 1.3.0 and made some nice looking science vessels along my progression. I love the new coloring GUI and the metallic effects.

 

Launch 3: Orbit Earth

Spoiler

Orbit earth, dV = 10.000 m/s, 1 crew

S1: 1,875m, 4x Merlin 1b
S2: 1.875m, 1x Merlin 1b
S3: 1.25m, RL10-A2

Launch 4: Orbit the Moon

Spoiler

Orbit moon, dV = 16.000 m/s, 1 crew

S0: 1.875m, 3x Merlin 1b per booster
S1: 1.875m, 5x Merlin 1b
S2: 1.875m, 1x custom LR87-LH2 (half of J2)
S3: 1.25m, RL10-A2

Launch 5: Orbit the Moon

Spoiler

Orbit moon, dV = 16.000 m/s, 2 crew

S1: 2.5m, 2x RD-180
S2: 2.5m, 1x custom LR87-LH2 (half of J2)
S3: 1.5m, 1x RL10-A3

Launch 6-7: Moon landing #1-2

Spoiler

Land on moon, dV = 19.500 m/s, 2 crew, 1st lander stage is new ground relay for comms

S1: 3.125m, 5x RD180
S2: 3.125m, 1x J2-X
S3: 2.5m, 1x custom LR87-LH2

L1: 1.875m, 3x SuperDraco
L2: 1.5m, 1x SuperDraco

Launch 8: Moon landing #3

Spoiler

Land on moon, dV = 19.500 m/s, 2 crew, 1st lander stage is new ground relay for comms

S1: 3.125m core, 2.5m boosters, 4x RD-180  (Jupiter III style staging, fuel tanks are on the side and not in-line)
S2: 3.125m, 1x J2-X
S3: 3.125m, 1x custom LR87-LH2

L1: 1.875, 3x SuperDraco
L2: 1.5m, 1x SuperDraco

Launch 9-11: Moon landing #4-6

Spoiler

Land on moon, dV = 20.500 m/s, 1st lander stage is new ground relay for comms

S0: 1.875m, 2x SRB
S1: 3.75m, 2x RS-25
S2: 3.75m, 3x custom LR87-LH2
S3: 3.125m, 1x custom RL-60

L1: 1.875m, 3x SuperDraco
L2: 1.5m, 1x SuperDraco

 

Edited June 10, 2017 by Jimbodiah

[tater]

@Jimbodiah, like the existence of the LR-87 hydrolox version---that is an engine that the game needs, and it was used with aerozine50, kerlox, as well as hydrolox.

[Jimbodiah]

Yes, it was suggested by someone when I was looking for an LHO engine between the RL10-B3 and J2.

[blowfish]

7 hours ago, tater said:

@Jimbodiah, like the existence of the LR-87 hydrolox version---that is an engine that the game needs, and it was used with aerozine50, kerlox, as well as hydrolox.

They were really different versions of the engine though.  The hydrolox version even needed a completely redesigned fuel pump to accommodate LH2 fuel

[tater]

16 hours ago, blowfish said:

They were really different versions of the engine though.  The hydrolox version even needed a completely redesigned fuel pump to accommodate LH2 fuel

Yeah, I know it was not the same engine running different fuels, they were variants of the same basic design, though. From the standpoint of KSP, it might well be possible to get away with a single model, however. I've only ever seen one (very poor) image of the LR-87 LH2, so it's hard to compare.

 

Unrelated to that (OK, somewhat related because of LR-87), I moved my much trimmed piece of the TRAILS mod into 1.3 to mess with Gemini stuff in SSTU. That mod comes with a SM, which I really need to convert to a SSTU SM, but in the meantime I was experimenting with SSTU parts to make such a part, which got me wondering...

Is it possible to have a top and bottom diameter for the SSTU decoupler? I could see a use for a part that follows the slope of a capsule part. The MUS stages accomplish this via the fairing, which can then match the size of the capsule above, creating a nice line. With a part like the mk1 pod, however, the decoupler results in a visual break as the pod slope then ends in the cylinder, then perhaps a sloped adapter, etc.

On a related note, we have the conic side booster tank for R7, and the regular MFT tanks... a frustum of a cone tank might also be interesting. Note that I am thinking about it as a service module, so generic SM parts might simply be a frustum of a cone, where the player can chose to make the top and bottom diameters the same. The only issue might be textures, I suppose. 

Edited June 11, 2017 by tater

[Gordon Dry]

Something about CLS:

PartLoader: Compiling Part 'SSTU/Parts/ShipCore/Series-E/SC-E-DAX/SSTU-SC-E-DAX'
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 42)

Module ModuleDockingHatch threw during OnLoad: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at ConnectedLivingSpace.ModuleDockingHatch.IsRelatedDockingNode (.ModuleDockingNode dockNode) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ConnectedLivingSpace.ModuleDockingHatch.CheckModuleDockingNode () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ConnectedLivingSpace.ModuleDockingHatch.isInDockedState () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ConnectedLivingSpace.ModuleDockingHatch.OnLoad (.ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at PartModule.Load (.ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 42)

Full log:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0suk7hp1u2c2rnm/2017-06-11-2 KSP.log.zip?dl=1

[Krux]

On 2017-6-10 at 4:51 PM, Jimbodiah said:

Started a new RSS career in 1.3.0 and made some nice looking science vessels along my progression. I love the new coloring GUI and the metallic effects.

 

Launch 3: Orbit Earth

  Reveal hidden contents

Orbit earth, dV = 10.000 m/s, 1 crew

S1: 1,875m, 4x Merlin 1b
S2: 1.875m, 1x Merlin 1b
S3: 1.25m, RL10-A2

Launch 4: Orbit the Moon

  Reveal hidden contents

Orbit moon, dV = 16.000 m/s, 1 crew

S0: 1.875m, 3x Merlin 1b per booster
S1: 1.875m, 5x Merlin 1b
S2: 1.875m, 1x custom LR87-LH2 (half of J2)
S3: 1.25m, RL10-A2

Launch 5: Orbit the Moon

  Reveal hidden contents

Orbit moon, dV = 16.000 m/s, 2 crew

S1: 2.5m, 2x RD-180
S2: 2.5m, 1x custom LR87-LH2 (half of J2)
S3: 1.5m, 1x RL10-A3

Launch 6-7: Moon landing #1-2

  Reveal hidden contents

Land on moon, dV = 19.500 m/s, 2 crew, 1st lander stage is new ground relay for comms

S1: 3.125m, 5x RD180
S2: 3.125m, 1x J2-X
S3: 2.5m, 1x custom LR87-LH2

L1: 1.875m, 3x SuperDraco
L2: 1.5m, 1x SuperDraco

Launch 8: Moon landing #3

  Reveal hidden contents

Land on moon, dV = 19.500 m/s, 2 crew, 1st lander stage is new ground relay for comms

S1: 3.125m core, 2.5m boosters, 4x RD-180  (Jupiter III style staging, fuel tanks are on the side and not in-line)
S2: 3.125m, 1x J2-X
S3: 3.125m, 1x custom LR87-LH2

L1: 1.875, 3x SuperDraco
L2: 1.5m, 1x SuperDraco

Launch 9-11: Moon landing #4-6

  Hide contents

Land on moon, dV = 20.500 m/s, 1st lander stage is new ground relay for comms

S0: 1.875m, 2x SRB
S1: 3.75m, 2x RS-25
S2: 3.75m, 3x custom LR87-LH2
S3: 3.125m, 1x custom RL-60

L1: 1.875m, 3x SuperDraco
L2: 1.5m, 1x SuperDraco

 

That is really amazing, those are very nice rockets! As you are in RSS, are you using the stock performance of SSTU parts, or do you use Realism Overhaul?

[Jimbodiah]

I am a blasphemer in that regard: I run my own simple patch to adjust thrust/ISP to get realistic looking and performing rockets without the need to rescale, adjust weights, add 20 other mods and have something I don't like playing (RO is not my thing). The patch can be found in my download in the SSTU Craft repository, here

[Shadowmage]

21 hours ago, Gordon Dry said:

Something about CLS:

PartLoader: Compiling Part 'SSTU/Parts/ShipCore/Series-E/SC-E-DAX/SSTU-SC-E-DAX'
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 42)

Module ModuleDockingHatch threw during OnLoad: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at ConnectedLivingSpace.ModuleDockingHatch.IsRelatedDockingNode (.ModuleDockingNode dockNode) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ConnectedLivingSpace.ModuleDockingHatch.CheckModuleDockingNode () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ConnectedLivingSpace.ModuleDockingHatch.isInDockedState () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ConnectedLivingSpace.ModuleDockingHatch.OnLoad (.ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at PartModule.Load (.ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 42)

Full log:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0suk7hp1u2c2rnm/2017-06-11-2 KSP.log.zip?dl=1

Whatever is going on there is a problem with CLS; the null-ref/error is caused directly by the CLS module(s).  I would suggest posting the error there, as I cannot fix CLS code.

[RedParadize]

19 hours ago, Jimbodiah said:

I am a blasphemer in that regard: I run my own simple patch to adjust thrust/ISP to get realistic looking and performing rockets without the need to rescale, adjust weights, add 20 other mods and have something I don't like playing (RO is not my thing). The patch can be found in my download in the SSTU Craft repository, here

Stock scale is too small, real scale is too buggy... So I do something similar to you but on top of 6.4 scale. If at some point you wish to try that I can provide a mass patch of SSTU.

[Jimbodiah]

I tend to only play RSS with a side install of SSRSS to test stock stuff; I even have a patch running on SSRSS so I can use my RSS ships and not be OP.

My 1.2.2 RSS install is running with RSSVE, so full scatterer and EVE eye candy, on 1.3.0 I am still just plain RSS as EVE/Scatterer have not been updated yet. What problems have you had in RSS?

[Shadowmage]

On 6/10/2017 at 8:51 AM, Jimbodiah said:

Started a new RSS career in 1.3.0 and made some nice looking science vessels along my progression. I love the new coloring GUI and the metallic effects.

Indeed, looks like you are putting the new features to very good use.

Those vessel pics are about what I would expect custom built rockets to look like; clean, functional, not all gray-and-blurry looking

[Jimbodiah]

I feel like a little kid that just got handed the large crayola box and put in a room with white walls. The coloring feature is really cool to customize your rockets, adds an extra dimension. I'm working on a blue/silver and blue/gold version for my upcoming Mars missions  

[Shadowmage]

General development/status update:

Slow going as of late due to real-life constraints; still undergoing some restructuring at work, and likely will be for the rest of the summer, don't foresee things getting any less-crazy until fall/winter.  That alone has been keeping me from making too much real progress in modding; hard to do modding when your brain feels like mush by the time you get home.

I have however still been working on what I can as time permits.  Fixing up bugs and general cleanup looks like it will be the theme for the next month or two.  Probably won't be able to start on any of the new part concepts until at least the end of summer.  That should give a nice 'stable' period for the mod though as I don't see there being any major/breaking changes coming down the pipeline for quite awhile.

When I next have time to get back into the swing of things, I think that the next series of parts to be tackled will be one of three things -- Modular-RCS, Service Modules, Probe Cores, or the Lander Core rework/refresh.  Still undecided on which to work on first, but I do plan for all four to be completed eventually.  SM's and Probe-cores could nearly be done with the existing models/textures and would just need a bit of additional back-end plugin support for specific features.  RCS stuff is still a bit early in the concept development phase.  Lander Core as well is still early in the concept development and planning stages for the new parts (existing parts probably won't change too much).

One thing that is being worked on currently (with the help of @tater and @Jimbodiah) is setting up an official SSTU-Craft and Patches repository.  This will be a single centralized place where various craft packs and 'overhaul' patch sets can be downloaded for the mod.  Still working on figuring out the organization and structure of everything but it looks like there will be at least several different lines of craft being offered (stock, various rescale), as well as quite a few different patch sets for even further customization (rebalance for rescales, new/changed models and textures, entirely new parts using other mods' models).  Will post more information on this as things get figured out.  Probably at least a few weeks out from having anything ready for download.

[Jimbodiah]

Take it easy, Mage. Focus on RL issues, the game is awesome but is not going anywhere. Love all the stuff you keep coming up with, as I think a lot of other people do as well.

[Jimbodiah]

Just playing around trying to make a new Mars lander... figured out how to change the colors on the new spherical nose/mounts.

[DocRockwell]

Anyone else missing the texture for the LMDE engine? The nozzle and pumps just show up as flat white, all the other engines look fine.

 

Could someone give me a quick rundown on the benefits/applications of spherical fuel tanks (in game or IRL)? I'd use them just for the A E S T H E T I C S, but I'd like to know if there's a better reason.

 

[tater]

The LMDE is a new model, and is not finished, hence no texture.

The spherical tanks are mostly aesthetic at the moment.

Edited June 15, 2017 by tater

[Temeter]

On 6.6.2017 at 1:14 AM, Shadowmage said:

I've been giving quite a bit of thought on how to pull off some 'better' RCS ports.  While I don't think I can fix the part-count issue (aside from offering integrated ports whenever possible), I'm fairly certain I can pull off some 'modular part' style RCS ports -- allowing for configuring the number of ports and layout (positions/angles, configurable through config like engine layouts), changing of the body style, port style, textures, and optional attachment arm selection. Oh, and scale (and thus thrust); possibly with an additional range of control for thrust as well as thrust scaling with model scale.

Still early in the thinking stage, could see it being developed along with the lander core stuff and/or service-module stuff, but couldn't say much more than that.

Holy excrementse, if that's actually viable... This would be so incredibly useful in RO

On 6.6.2017 at 2:13 PM, tater said:

Shame about the terrible shroud on the stock heat shield.

You could just disable the shroud, use a long, thin sstu decoupler shifted upwards over the heatshield. I'm doing that all the time with decouplers. Usually doesn't explode.

Edited June 15, 2017 by Temeter

[Shadowmage]

10 hours ago, DocRockwell said:

Could someone give me a quick rundown on the benefits/applications of spherical fuel tanks (in game or IRL)?

In Real Life -- Spherical tanks have the highest ratio of surface area-to-volume of any standard three-dimensional geometric shape.  This is important for space applications as the surface area is a major contributor to structural needs / skin mass.  They also have an inherently self-supporting structure, and follow ideal gas expansion/pressurization consistency across the skin (making them good for pressurized tanks, or for withstanding external pressure).

However they are not the most efficient use of -space- given existing rocket designs; which is why we have cylindrical tanks with domed end-caps.  I think it was the N1 that used spherical tanks with conical/cylindrical shrouds on them, which ended up with a worse mass-fraction because of it (lots of extra fairing/structural panels with empty space inside).  Not as much of a concern for orbital/vacuum use, as I think those shrouds were mostly for aerodynamics during the launch; in space it might be a simple external truss structure, where you could take advantage of many of the pros of the spherical tanks.

Basically, they can be better from a mass-fraction perspective, but worse from a utilization of space perspective.  As with most things rocket related, it is all about the tradeoffs and situational uses that would make one more desirable than the other for any given use.

 

1 hour ago, Temeter said:

[...]if that's actually viable... This would be so incredibly useful in RO

>90% sure that I can make it happen.  Already doing everything that would be needed in the station parts / MUS, would merely be adapting the code to be used with a different set of models and for use as stand-alone parts.

Not entirely sure on the feature set yet, or even if it will be a thing, but currently I can see the utility of the parts and could have used them for quite a few builds that needed...odd... rcs balancing.  Also the ability to mount the RCS on extensions (possibly even deployable/adjustable length?) seems like it would be very useful for tugs/freighters/station-assembly with nose-mounted payloads.

At this point the biggest thing keeping it from happening in the short-term is models / time needed for modeling (or lack of).  The code side of things should be fairly quick to get working once models are available.