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The Dunatian, Playable Save File (Like a Scenario)

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JAFO

JAFO

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began seeing a pattern in the results I was getting. If the map said I had a periapse of 203km behind Duna, when I actually flew the route, I'd get a periapse of 323km. If I was expecting 307km ahead of Duna, I got 187km, and so on. Every single result was a consistent 120km 'out', and the direction of the offset was consistent also..

Well now.. this is interesting.. I've just loaded up last night's course corrections, and the 120km offset is gone! My 47km ahead course is out at 167km, and my 130km behind course is close in at 10km!

So, I timewarped both quicksaves on, to 1 month before Duna SOI, and used my patented JAFO method to tweak both orbits to pass 45km ahead, and 45km behind, respectively. I then shut down the game, and am about to re-load and see what happens.

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selfish_meme

selfish_meme

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Well now.. this is interesting.. I've just loaded up last night's course corrections, and the 120km offset is gone! My 47km ahead course is out at 167km, and my 130km behind course is close in at 10km!

So, I timewarped both quicksaves on, to 1 month before Duna SOI, and used my patented JAFO method to tweak both orbits to pass 45km ahead, and 45km behind, respectively. I then shut down the game, and am about to re-load and see what happens.

I have a feeling KSP doesn't always tell you the truth, but what it thinks is the truth at that point in time.

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selfish_meme

selfish_meme

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Riiight. LOL, don't feel bad man. Is it safe to rove like that? Doesn't it speed up down hill?

It does speed up going down hill. It depends on the rover, if they work well like ours I think you could maintain 17m/s or a bit more nearly all the time. If you do get to any steep places then you are probably going to have to go manual. If you go flat out everywhere you are going to roll eventually. It happens anyway because you tend to sit with your finger on the W key going flat out.

- - - Updated - - -

Got the assets loaded and took some Map screenshots, uploading save file, then I am ready for another rover run.

JmyGvrh.png

GDUcTIK.png

- - - Updated - - -

Part count around the base I estimate at about 160

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Mad Rocket Scientist

Mad Rocket Scientist

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O. M. G.

Finally.. a digital way to put a brick on the W key, without needing mods. Makes you wonder why nobody's thought of it before.

Ahem.

Trim (Alt+w) is suggested for normal travel, when you want to stop, hit brakes and the aeroshell will open for easy exit and entry.

True, I only used it because the reaction wheels would tip it over otherwise, but still. :)

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PLAD

PLAD

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I'm reading the book now. I'd had it on reserve on the library but that wasn't due for 11 days, so I went and bought a copy. Andy Weir should be happy.:)

I admit I've skipped ahead to the ascent to rendezvous with the Hermes, and it has some puzzles. Nowhere do I see a flyby altitude mentioned, though we can constrain it with what we are given. Here are my first thoughts for now, then back to reading...

-12 G's on ascent?!? That's crazy. Even if he'd cut the mass by more than half this suggests the original flight profile for the MAV was around 6 G's, which is massive overkill and rather dangerous. But it doesn't give us other clues. We know it had to go from 0 to 5.8km/s.

-It seems the nominal plan was about 12 minutes of thrusting followed by about 40 minutes of coasting to intercept. (note average acceleration would be around 6000m/s over 720s = 8.3m/s^2)

-Did the MAV have 2 stages? They talk of removing a first stage motor, which strongly implies a second stage to me.

-You can't coast to a 0-m/s intercept. If you are coasting towards a 0-meter intercept with a separately orbiting vehicle, you are in a different orbit than it is and you must have a relative velocity when you are closest to it. Either they would plan to have the MAV motors burnout right next to Hermes at 0m/s, or they would allow for a rendezvous burn to match velocities at closest approach after a coasting period. Since they planned for a 40-minute coast, they would have to plan for a rendezvous burn. It could be small, if it approached at 10m/s for those 2400 seconds that would mean burnout was around 24 km away from Hermes, but it would have to exist. In the book they seemed to expect no speed-matching burn would be necessary.

-It seems the MAV launched from about 4.3 degrees South of the Martian Equator.

Certainly the flyby was at less than 1000km altitude above Mars, probably much less. This would translate to less than 100km above Duna. In the interest of making the ascent reasonably simple I would push for there being two stages to the MAV, with a coasting period between the two firings. The first gets it up into a fairly circular orbit, and the 2nd, after a few minutes of coasting, pushes it to Hermes' velocity and within 100km or so of Hermes. Then we coast to a low-speed intercept where Hermes can use manuevering motors for velocity matching. A spacewalk then gets Watley from the DAV to Hermes. I think this can be justified within the book, they say "He'll get to orbit... but the intercept course may be compromised". I may be stretching it a bit.

Gotta go read...

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selfish_meme

selfish_meme

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I'm reading the book now. I'd had it on reserve on the library but that wasn't due for 11 days, so I went and bought a copy. Andy Weir should be happy.:)

I admit I've skipped ahead to the ascent to rendezvous with the Hermes, and it has some puzzles. Nowhere do I see a flyby altitude mentioned, though we can constrain it with what we are given. Here are my first thoughts for now, then back to reading...

-12 G's on ascent?!? That's crazy. Even if he'd cut the mass by more than half this suggests the original flight profile for the MAV was around 6 G's, which is massive overkill and rather dangerous. But it doesn't give us other clues. We know it had to go from 0 to 5.8km/s.

-It seems the nominal plan was about 12 minutes of thrusting followed by about 40 minutes of coasting to intercept. (note average acceleration would be around 6000m/s over 720s = 8.3m/s^2)

-Did the MAV have 2 stages? They talk of removing a first stage motor, which strongly implies a second stage to me.

-You can't coast to a 0-m/s intercept. If you are coasting towards a 0-meter intercept with a separately orbiting vehicle, you are in a different orbit than it is and you must have a relative velocity when you are closest to it. Either they would plan to have the MAV motors burnout right next to Hermes at 0m/s, or they would allow for a rendezvous burn to match velocities at closest approach after a coasting period. Since they planned for a 40-minute coast, they would have to plan for a rendezvous burn. It could be small, if it approached at 10m/s for those 2400 seconds that would mean burnout was around 24 km away from Hermes, but it would have to exist. In the book they seemed to expect no speed-matching burn would be necessary.

-It seems the MAV launched from about 4.3 degrees South of the Martian Equator.

Certainly the flyby was at less than 1000km altitude above Mars, probably much less. This would translate to less than 100km above Duna. In the interest of making the ascent reasonably simple I would push for there being two stages to the MAV, with a coasting period between the two firings. The first gets it up into a fairly circular orbit, and the 2nd, after a few minutes of coasting, pushes it to Hermes' velocity and within 100km or so of Hermes. Then we coast to a low-speed intercept where Hermes can use manuevering motors for velocity matching. A spacewalk then gets Watley from the DAV to Hermes. I think this can be justified within the book, they say "He'll get to orbit... but the intercept course may be compromised". I may be stretching it a bit.

Gotta go read...

Thanks for helping us out PLAD, I have added you to the list of contributors.

- - - Updated - - -

So I know I have been quiet, well I have still been beavering away. I literally just finished uploading a teaser from the promotional video I am making (because I couldn't convince anyone else to), sorry for the crappy video editing skills, I am learning as I go. It's 6 minutes long which is about 5 and half minutes too long. About 30 seconds will probably make it into the final video.

Video was still processing when I posted this give it a few minutes

- - - Updated - - -

Don't you hate it when you find spelling mistakes on public publishing

Edited by selfish_meme
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JAFO

JAFO

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This is the imgur album I am constructing for the eventual launch release on Reddit, what do you guys think?

Looking good.. needs an updated pic of Hermes with the balance corrected.. but other than that, it's great.

I may not be posting much for a few days.. no internet at home since Tuesday morning, and it may be up to a week before I'm connected again. I'm posting this from my local library.

Progress on the flyby is slow at the moment.. running into some problems with KSPs accuracy limits at long distance. Even trying to get things right from just two months out from Duna encounter is being problematic. I have some ideas though, and will be trying them out over the next few days til I have a connection again.

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PLAD

PLAD

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Well, I've finished the book. Hoo boy this gave me a lot to think about... (brow furrows)... hmm... you know, we could do a really marvelous copy of the path in the book if we wanted a nastier challenge. Wait, I just need a couple of hours on the supercomputer...

OK, I've got this really cool presentation! Oh darn, I've got it somewhere.. Oh, here: (Warning, spoilers ahead!)

In the book the Journey of the Hermes is Mars orbit-Earth 236 days, (pick up Taiyang Shen) Earth-Mars 322 days, (pick up MAV) Mars-Earth 211 days. There is also the original Earth-Mars in 124 days trip, but that takes place before the book starts, and for reasons I might remember to mention later it has a big problem to simulate. So let's start with the Hermes in orbit around Duna.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

So far I've only made it to the Kerbin flyby, but it looks like it will all work. You could even adjust the start D-K path so that the periapsis is originally 50 km or so as if you were going to aerobrake, then you would have to make a course adjustment at least a few weeks out from Kerbin to switch to the Duna return/flyby. Presumably without KASA's permission.

I've just downloaded your beta ships and save files, I shall try them out shortly. I just don't make ships that look as good as yours so I shall swipe those for my tests as well. I'll be back with more details in a couple of days. Look for new screenshots in the album above as I continue, too.

Oh yes- in my opinion there is a flaw in the book in that the Hermes somehow gets from an 8km/s (28,800kph) arrival speed at Mars to orbit in less than 6 days, and then somehow gets from a Mars orbit to heading back to Earth in less than 24 hours. since Mars escape speed is around 4950m/s tops that means it killed, then added, at least 3000m/s. At 2mm/s that would take about 17 days. They sort of suggest that it aerobraked into orbit, but at that speed it would take going deep enough into the atmosphere to brake at 6 G's to slow into orbit. I just can't picture the Hermes surviving that sort of force. It also makes it tough to simulate that part of the voyage. I've gotta think about it more.

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selfish_meme

selfish_meme

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Well, I've finished the book. Hoo boy this gave me a lot to think about... (brow furrows)... hmm... you know, we could do a really marvelous copy of the path in the book if we wanted a nastier challenge. Wait, I just need a couple of hours on the supercomputer...

OK, I've got this really cool presentation! Oh darn, I've got it somewhere.. Oh, here: (Warning, spoilers ahead!)

In the book the Journey of the Hermes is Mars orbit-Earth 236 days, (pick up Taiyang Shen) Earth-Mars 322 days, (pick up MAV) Mars-Earth 211 days. There is also the original Earth-Mars in 124 days trip, but that takes place before the book starts, and for reasons I might remember to mention later it has a big problem to simulate. So let's start with the Hermes in orbit around Duna.

http://imgur.com/a/GIWo2

So far I've only made it to the Kerbin flyby, but it looks like it will all work. You could even adjust the start D-K path so that the periapsis is originally 50 km or so as if you were going to aerobrake, then you would have to make a course adjustment at least a few weeks out from Kerbin to switch to the Duna return/flyby. Presumably without KASA's permission.

I've just downloaded your beta ships and save files, I shall try them out shortly. I just don't make ships that look as good as yours so I shall swipe those for my tests as well. I'll be back with more details in a couple of days. Look for new screenshots in the album above as I continue, too.

Oh yes- in my opinion there is a flaw in the book in that the Hermes somehow gets from an 8km/s (28,800kph) arrival speed at Mars to orbit in less than 6 days, and then somehow gets from a Mars orbit to heading back to Earth in less than 24 hours. since Mars escape speed is around 4950m/s tops that means it killed, then added, at least 3000m/s. At 2mm/s that would take about 17 days. They sort of suggest that it aerobraked into orbit, but at that speed it would take going deep enough into the atmosphere to brake at 6 G's to slow into orbit. I just can't picture the Hermes surviving that sort of force. It also makes it tough to simulate that part of the voyage. I've gotta think about it more.

Hi PLAD, JAFO is offline for a few days so I am thanking you for all this work for both of us. We were not planning to do the Taiyang Sheng part so you won't find the ship in the files. This play through was meant to be quite a bit shorter than the book (to cover the most attention spans) and starts with a rover journey of approximately 4-6 hours, so we planned to have the Hermes about 6 hours away from the Duna flyby. I know on the Reddit challenge they are doing the whole thing, and you are welcome to use our craft to complete that challenge if you want. I am not going to enter myself so there would be no overlap.

I love the symmetry of the orbits and would like to see someone do this, I doubt many people in the Reddit challenge will get as far as this and will just put Hermes in orbit and fly up to it.

Speaking of Hermes, I stole some of Azimechs and RedshiftOFT's bearing tech and built this, it's 160 parts before you add any engines and is just a starter centrifugal gravity ring for space ships and stations, craft file coming in a sec. It is stiff enough that you can manoeuvre gently with the ring turning (though I wouldn't) I'm thinking of looking into an ingame tweakable that would reset docking ports so they could redock. Then you could do manoeuvres and start up the ring for the cruise phase. You may want the persistent rotation mod too.

EvenNiceKusimanse.gif

Up in the top corner you might possibly be able to make out I am getting about 47 to 50fps

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selfish_meme

selfish_meme

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Well, I've finished the book. Hoo boy this gave me a lot to think about... (brow furrows)... hmm... you know, we could do a really marvelous copy of the path in the book if we wanted a nastier challenge. Wait, I just need a couple of hours on the supercomputer...

OK, I've got this really cool presentation! Oh darn, I've got it somewhere.. Oh, here: (Warning, spoilers ahead!)

In the book the Journey of the Hermes is Mars orbit-Earth 236 days, (pick up Taiyang Shen) Earth-Mars 322 days, (pick up MAV) Mars-Earth 211 days. There is also the original Earth-Mars in 124 days trip, but that takes place before the book starts, and for reasons I might remember to mention later it has a big problem to simulate. So let's start with the Hermes in orbit around Duna.

http://imgur.com/a/GIWo2

So far I've only made it to the Kerbin flyby, but it looks like it will all work. You could even adjust the start D-K path so that the periapsis is originally 50 km or so as if you were going to aerobrake, then you would have to make a course adjustment at least a few weeks out from Kerbin to switch to the Duna return/flyby. Presumably without KASA's permission.

I've just downloaded your beta ships and save files, I shall try them out shortly. I just don't make ships that look as good as yours so I shall swipe those for my tests as well. I'll be back with more details in a couple of days. Look for new screenshots in the album above as I continue, too.

Oh yes- in my opinion there is a flaw in the book in that the Hermes somehow gets from an 8km/s (28,800kph) arrival speed at Mars to orbit in less than 6 days, and then somehow gets from a Mars orbit to heading back to Earth in less than 24 hours. since Mars escape speed is around 4950m/s tops that means it killed, then added, at least 3000m/s. At 2mm/s that would take about 17 days. They sort of suggest that it aerobraked into orbit, but at that speed it would take going deep enough into the atmosphere to brake at 6 G's to slow into orbit. I just can't picture the Hermes surviving that sort of force. It also makes it tough to simulate that part of the voyage. I've gotta think about it more.

Hi PLAD also the Rich Purnell presentation in the film was so....whats the word I want, oh yeah crap. It was so dumbed down and cliche'd

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onewatt

onewatt

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'rigidity issues' is a bit of an understatement, I uploaded some assembly pics with one of the craft under time-accelerated thrust:

http://kerbal.curseforge.com/projects/kermes/images

- - - Updated - - -

Ok, I'm going to re-work the whole thing with more fuselage parts and fewer girders, also try to minimize the part count and provide enough ion trust to actually move the craft around, at least the Kerbin system…

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selfish_meme

selfish_meme

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'rigidity issues' is a bit of an understatement, I uploaded some assembly pics with one of the craft under time-accelerated thrust:

http://kerbal.curseforge.com/projects/kermes/images

- - - Updated - - -

Ok, I'm going to re-work the whole thing with more fuselage parts and fewer girders, also try to minimize the part count and provide enough ion trust to actually move the craft around, at least the Kerbin system…

Like I replied to your original post, download ours from the project and steal our quad docking port connectors, they are much more rigid than single docking ports, also you can steal the wheel I just posted in the spacecraft exchange to make your gravity wheel. God help your part count.

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JAFO

JAFO

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Yay! I haz internets again!

'rigidity issues' is a bit of an understatement:

http://kerbal.curseforge.com/projects/kermes/images

<chuckles> Your "little wobbley" pic had me laughing for almost a full minute.. now you know why I said I expected her to fly like overcooked pasta!

Right.. back to sorting out my misbehaving flyby distances.

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selfish_meme

selfish_meme

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Yay! I haz internets again!

<chuckles> Your "little wobbley" pic had me laughing for almost a full minute.. now you know why I said I expected her to fly like overcooked pasta!

Right.. back to sorting out my misbehaving flyby distances.

Good luck, I have been goofing off and building rotating rings

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