Will I ever be able to make myself play this amazing creation?

[p1t1o]

Hi All,

first off, to be clear, this is one of the best games (if "game" is the right word) I have ever played, more than that, it is probably one of the best-run developments, especially in the "early access" world, that has been seen in recent years, the connection with the community is nothing short of unique.

I first got in aroundabout v.0.19-0.20 and lost around a year of social life to it, I spent weeks simply tinkering with mod setups, pushing the limits of what was possible, with some screaming moments of frustration punctuating many, MANY long nights of space exploration.

Then the updates started to become more frequent, and often with great impact.

So after the initial year-long binge, I got into a few other games and decided to give it a back-seat whilst the developments rolled in.

But I can't be the only one who is sitting around waiting for the game to come to some sort of natural completion, every time I seriously think about sacrificing another year to KSP I am faced with the decision to invest days into perfecting a new set-up (after mods, I can no longer play the vanilla game au naturel) or to wait for the next update which will have improved features, may include mods I might otherwise install, or even be incompatible with others.

If I take the plunge and get into it, I risk missing significant upgrades which might make all efforts up to that point obsolete.

Of course, don't get me wrong, more features and more development mean a better game and a better experience, how could I say no to that? How could I not give respect to the huge amounts of hard work and dedication - and Im sure not just a few sleepless nights - that the developers put into the game, by not taking advantage of new updates?

But this leaves me with a very stop-start kind of feeling with regards to getting back into the game, if you understand what I mean?

I'm not sure what the developers have planned for their business in the future, but on the current roadmap, is there ever really going to be a final milestone? Where the game would be considered officially "complete"?

Or is the idea that it will be *never* complete and I should just bite the bullet and get stuck in, come what may?

It is a weird kind of dilemma to complain about - and I'm not really "complaining" as such - I cannot give any valid reason to halt development other than "Gimme time to play it dammit!" and I'm not sure thats a fair one to the community or the developers.

But....but...HELP! Any sympathisers? Any advice?

Thanks

[Esme]

Just dive in is my advice. When 1.04 came out, I quickly found that my (very old) PC couldn't quite cope with some of the changes from v0.9, which was a shame, but heck, it's not as if v0.9 isn't a darned good game which was. giving me lots of fun playing. Indeed there's a game I started in v0.23 which I occasionally revisit becuase I was having so much fun with it, mainly because I managed my best of-Kerbin base to date in it. As it happens a long service bonus at work enable dme to get a better PC sooner than I'd expected, but that just gves me one mor eversion of KSP to have fun with, it adds to teh fun quotient, rather thandetrating from it.

Put another way - if you don't play KSP in case it upgrades again soon you're denying yourself the fun you could get from playing KSP right now.

Enjoy! :-)

[Motokid600]

I'm sure Squad will get to a point where there completely satisfied with the way KSP is and announce development has ended to start on another project. But Hopefully that's many, many moons from now. Because imo ksp still has ALOT of work needed before Squad can even start thinking "done."

But that should not effect you what so ever. The modding community is the best it's ever been. And no matter what KSP turns into in the future that aspect will remain. So absolutely get back into it.

Its kinda like when people ask "oh whell when should I build a new pc with this new hardware coming soon." The answer is now or never. Because there will always be for the rest of time something new and shiny around the corner to make your stuff look obsolete. But by no means is it necessary to acquire it.

Longest I've gone on a single update while new ones past me by is an easy six months with an RSS/RO install on .23 I believe. I update the game and wipe my slate clean when I'm good and ready to move on to something else. So again now is as good a time as any to hinder your social life lol.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Motokid600

[Geschosskopf]

But....but...HELP! Any sympathisers? Any advice?

Thanks

Look, you obviously enjoy playing KSP, so go play it. If some future update trashes everything you've built, say a supernova wiped out civilization and start over. That's what I do. I used to have a poster showing a ship having difficulty in a storm at sea. Its caption said, "Ships that stay in harbor are safe, but that's not what ships are built for." Keep that in mind.

When I 1st started playing KSP back in 0.20, I was a bit worried about this sort of thing. And I even tried to keep my old games going the 1st couple of updates. But I quickly decided this wasn't worth it. First, the new update usually added some cool feature I wanted to play with from the get-go. Besides, I always spot imperfections in my designs once they're flying, or learn some better way to do something, and knowing these things makes me not want to continue going things the old way. So after a while, I became rather grateful for game-breaking changes because that gave me an excuse to pull the plug on old, imperfect games I was by then dissatisfied with.

Also, I now do careers with science set at 200% and funds at 150%. This lets me blaze through the tech tree with no grinding and get on with the fun stuff like colonizing other planets on a budget. Thus, restarts aren't much of a burden and I can get into what I actually find fun rather quickly.

[Zephram Kerman]

Dunno about anybody else, but for me each upgrade makes KSP a brand new game. The new features, rule changes, new parts, other folks' ideas and challenges, etc. all make for a brand new adventure every few months. So for me it's not so much a work in progress as a membership in a 'KSP of the month' club.

[Goddess Bhavani]

The recent aerodynamic and thermal simulation may be controversial at first, but I've grown to enjoy it very much in two ways.

One, I have less need to install separate mods for said advanced simulation (stock seems to run them more efficiently too) and Two - it shows how the modding scene may influence the development of the stock game.

KSP is less about playing a pre-packaged experience (most mainstream games are like that - they have a limited lifespan)

It's about being part of a space program, both in the sense of developing a virtual space program in the game, and also by participating in a community that embraces scientific curiosity and advancement as a whole.

I can see KSP being a thing for a decade or two even, because there's much to do in conquering space, and one day we might even be able to pick from multiple solar systems and tech trees in the stock game - one can already use RSS, RO, Outer Planets, 10x etc etc to completely change the field and scope of play.

[cephalo]

I say wait another year. All games get old. Period. You will get more fun per hour spent by letting the game mature. Only play if you really, really miss it.

[Nich]

I would say play now. However if you want to find a good time to pick it up again after the unity 5 update the game should be vastly improved. I would guess more stable shortly after that point as well.

[eddiew]

My 2p; check the dev notes, have a little flutter with it. If you like the way the current version is playing, then play the current version. You don't have to update if you choose not to. On the other hand, if something about the current release bothers you, hang in for the next

From my perspective, 1.0.2 was iffy - the aero was thick and soupy and wasn't very fun, so I left it until 1.0.4 when planes flew again ^^

I would also lay odds that there won't be any save-game-breaking bugs because of the future 1.1 update, or Unity 5. No reason the file formats should change.

[Plume & Akakak]

"On this forum, we can regularly read people asking simultaneously for a finished product and for constant new features. Talk about oxymorons."

Quoting me from another thread : ), and KSP is not the only game concerned.

Maybe we could stop building our own double bind situations.

[Zoidos]

For some reason this never bothered me. I started playing at .25 and just had time to get familiar with the game until .90 came out. I just started a new save where i was able to avoid some noob mistakes i made inthe first one. I actually enjoyed checking the forums for my favourite mods getting updated to the new game version while progressing. It was the same with 1.x. The biggest of my few problems witht his game is the lack of end game content. Once i havemaxed out the tech tree i have little motivation to continue a save apart of tying up some loose ends thus i don't really mind having a reason to start from scratch once in a while. Even more so when this reason is combined with new features, squasged bugs and overall a more polished, complete experience

On the contrary, when 1.0 came out,with the new aero model and all the new stuff, it almost felt like a completely new game and i really enjoyed rediscovering this masterpiece once again.

As for the future of ksp, i couldn't imagine a point where it could be deemed "complete". The mere nature of a sandbox game holds near infinite potential for updates and new features. In any case i am really glad (and credit for SQUAD for this!) that development of this awesome game is progressing.

TL;DR: just play the game. Like in real life, you only risk missing out while you are waiting for something that might never happen

[Yakuzi]

I know exactly how you feel OP. I'm also waiting for the core features to get molded into their final form. I'm typically spending heaps of time designing craft so I'm hesitant diving fully into the game currently when updates that change the core game rules are released relatively frequently post-release.

On this forum, we can regularly read people asking simultaneously for a finished product and for constant new features. Talk about oxymorons.

Not quite an oxymoron... A released game should have finished core rules (physics in the case of KSP... the indecisophere that is KSP 1.0.x should not have happened), but can still get new game optimisation passes, bug fixes and new features like aesthetic overhauls, coherent career, parts and systems that increase the gameplay experience (some should've been included before release IMO).

[Plume & Akakak]

On this forum, we can regularly read people asking simultaneously for a finished product and for constant new features. Talk about oxymorons.

Maybe we could stop building our own double bind situations.

Not quite an oxymoron... A released game should have finished core rules (physics in the case of KSP... the indecisophere that is KSP 1.0.x should not have happened), but can still get new game optimisation passes, [...]

Can I call it a mental leg split, then ?

Happens with other games, other products, and in other circumstances. That's just users adding a bittersweet frustration flavour to the product they are consuming.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Plume & Akakak
round angles.

[Norcalplanner]

Play now, but keep multiple installs. (I currently have eight different installs, to the detriment of my hard drive.) That way, nothing breaks when there's an update. This is especially important for Steam users, where the game will automatically update if you're not careful.

[Superfluous J]

If you're worried about being overwhelmed by mods, then try this:

Come up with a list of mods you want to install. "All the ones I used to use" is a good starting list.

Install a fresh game with NO mods at all, or just a very small handful of mods that you are sure are like they were before. KER, for example, has more readouts and a better UI but it's still "the thing that tells you stuff." Avoid huge part/function mods like KAS and steer clear of anything not updated to 1.0 at least, if not 1.0.4. Keep those on your list, but don't install them. Yet.

Play a while, until you're comfortable with the new Kerbal Space Program stuff.

Install a mod off the list. Play with it until you're comfortable with it.

Repeat the above step.

The big problem with coming into a game you used to play and installing a ton of mods is, you have no idea if something is acting weird because KSP is acting weird, if one of a dozen mods is acting weird, if you're expecting something different than what is happening, so now your expectation is weird and the game is correct, or what.

tl;dr, wade in, don't dive.

[LostOblivion]

To answer the original post, I've very much been in the same boat, but the real argument to don't worry about this now that the game is released, and Squad is essentially obliged to keep the game strictly backwards compatible from this point on. :-)

[Superfluous J]

To answer the original post, I've very much been in the same boat, but the real argument to don't worry about this now that the game is released, and Squad is essentially obliged to keep the game strictly backwards compatible from this point on. :-)

On the last Squadcast, Max specifically said that their policy for backwards compatibility remains now what it has always been: They will strive for it, but if what they want to do will break saves then so be it.

[samstarman5]

To answer the original post, I've very much been in the same boat, but the real argument to don't worry about this now that the game is released, and Squad is essentially obliged to keep the game strictly backwards compatible from this point on. :-)

Pretty sure a lot of stuff will be broken with 1.1. There is no obligation to maintain save compatibility, just a promise of effort to that effect.

[p1t1o]

Thanks to those who responded. THere was significant support for my woes, but the overwhelming feeling I think is one of "Just get back into it, by not-playing, all you are doing is denying ourself Kerbals!"

I am impressed by the speed of development of the Unity 5 upgrade, and look forward to what it might bring (to flog the dead horse, my greateset hope is for stable 64bits), the gameplay additions, specifically an integrated remotetech-like system, also look really cool. I love the flexibility and content that mods bring, but IMO, the more things that are integrated into the base game, the better, even if just so that people not inclined to mod, get to experience some of the things that modders do.

So whilst I am keen for that to arrive, I am also aware that timescale are just not predictable in an way, and I decided to take the plunge. Whatever build of KSP I am able to put together, it will be worlds ahead of the last one I had working anyway!

CKAN has been my saviour, cutting days, I am sure, from my modding procedure. I was able to simply pick most of them from the list, and significantly, adding/removing mods is now a FAR (or is that NEAR...) simpler task, making finding that RAM-limited sweetspot many times easier and less time consuming.

CKAN is a new addition since I was last into KSP, what are peoples experiences with it like? Are mods kept up-to-date as reliably as other platforms? Are mod-creators keen to upload to CKAN, or do I need to keep an eye on kerbalstuff etc. as well?

I am exclusively using 32-bit, my last session was a foray into the (then) new 64bit build, which with mods, gives you screaming nightmares. So I cannot have the volume of additions that I used to, and I need to have it set to helf-res on textures in order to get a satisfactory number of mods installed. To be honest, the resolution is the biggest hit, I am limited for mods, but you are still able to install a very generous number of new parts, below is an abridged mod list (its just the most significant ones off the top of my head so it is not complete, I think I have over 100 mods of various flavours installed.)

B9

AIES

KW Rocketry

Habitat pack

All the "Near Future" addons

Karbonite

Remotetech

Engineer

FAR

Deadly Reentry

Distant Objects

Modular Fuel Tanks

TAC LS

+many others

(Including lots of little extras like "Final Frontier", various contract packs and menus, and tools like Kerbal Alarm Clock and that transfer window planner thingy etc etc.)

Sadly, none of the "EVE" addons made the cut, they are just too RAM-intensive. Aesthetics take second place to parts and game mechanics in my book. Sad though, EVE in full glory is, well, glorious!

All-in-all, the entry into full-blown Kerballling has been much less stressful this time around, the 32bit build hums along quite nicely, even with what must be a max-load of mods (seriously, any other tiny mod added to the list gives RAM-crash on startup) I have only had a couple of crashes so far, and the have been fairly benign. No sign of the Kraken as yet...

I am looking forward to when a 64 bit build removes almost all restriction on mod/part count, alongside enabling high-res textures, but I can feel the start of a brand new obsession with the 32bit thang I have going on right now.

Even now, I am mainly only writing this because I have ran out of things to read in the threads, but I dont want to leave the forum just yet, I'm jonesing for my kerbal fix when I get home!