Just in: Another plane went missing

[RainDreamer]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/indonesian-plane-carrying-54-people-loses-contact-with-air-traffic-control-1439719737

http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/indonesian-plane-carrying-54-people-loses-contact-in-papua-officials-1207834

The plane was a ATR42-300 twin turboprop plane carrying 54 people, 49 passengers and 5 crew, owned by Indonesian airline Trigana Air.

It lost contact with air control 33 minutes after leaving Jayapura at 3:00 PM local time on its way to Oksibil, "a remote settlement in the mountains only accessible by plane". 10 minutes before it was due to land, the plane made contact with Oksibil control tower requesting permission to descend, but it never arrived. The airline sent another plane on the same route 30 minutes later to search for the missing plane, but had to turn back early due to bad weather and darkness.

This year doesn't sounds good for flying in SEA.

[Columbia]

This is going to be a blow for the aviation industry..

Hope it's found soon.

[Camacha]

This is going to be a blow for the aviation industry..

Why? We are in the safest aerospace era ever.

[Sampa]

Without knowing the region, i would say that it's possible that there was a ccwt...that is a controlled collision with terrain.

[Flymetothemun]

Why? We are in the safest aerospace era ever.

Airlines make their money by ticket sales. If people see stories like this in the news, then they'll be less inclined to buy tickets and drive or even sail to where they want to go. Less ticket sales mean less money. Less money means that airlines suffer. They may even buy less airplanes, leading to the manufacturers suffering.

Safety's just one aspect of any industry. You also have money, the law, public opinion, and many, many other aspects to deal with.

[RainDreamer]

Search today found wreckages of what is believed to be the missing plane:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/indonesia/11805839/Indonesian-passenger-plane-missing-in-remote-Papua-region.html

Turns out there was about "6.5 billion rupiah (£300,000) in cash to distribute to poor families in the eastern province" on that plane. Sounds interesting.

That said, authorities are still trying to verify details from the locals. The area is full of thick jungle and mountains, where planes have been crashed and never found.

[Sampa]

And it seems that I was correct in my assumption. Pilot error and CCWT.

[Nuke]

Airlines make their money by ticket sales. If people see stories like this in the news, then they'll be less inclined to buy tickets and drive or even sail to where they want to go. Less ticket sales mean less money. Less money means that airlines suffer. They may even buy less airplanes, leading to the manufacturers suffering.

Safety's just one aspect of any industry. You also have money, the law, public opinion, and many, many other aspects to deal with.

they already ruined flying for me with tsa agents. i take boats now. them smurfs give me the creeps

[PakledHostage]

And it seems that I was correct in my assumption. Pilot error and CCWT.

I think I saw you on the news the other day! I love listening to guys like you. What I always wonder is why you self-appointed "experts" don't leave the aircraft accident investigations to the actual experts and avoid making definitive statements about the cause until it is actually known?

[Camacha]

Airlines make their money by ticket sales. If people see stories like this in the news, then they'll be less inclined to buy tickets and drive or even sail to where they want to go. Less ticket sales mean less money. Less money means that airlines suffer. They may even buy less airplanes, leading to the manufacturers suffering.

The public understands this is a dubious blacklisted airline, but it is a good reason why everyone should learn at least basic statistics and source checking. Having the facts and what people think are the facts be stoo far apart is always a recipe for trouble.

I think I saw you on the news the other day! I love listening to guys like you. What I always wonder is why you self-appointed "experts" don't leave the aircraft accident investigations to the actual experts and avoid making definitive statements about the cause until it is actually known?

Because almost every internet forum would suddenly go silent if everyone did that

[Sampa]

I think I saw you on the news the other day! I love listening to guys like you. What I always wonder is why you self-appointed "experts" don't leave the aircraft accident investigations to the actual experts and avoid making definitive statements about the cause until it is actually known?

Very funny...i was taking a guess in the dark.

[PakledHostage]

Because almost every internet forum would suddenly go silent if everyone did that

My point isn't that people shouldn't discuss possible causes/explanations. My point is that they should avoid making definitive statements about the cause. There may well be mitigating factors that only those close to the investigation know. It's great that every guy with 50 hours in a trainer thinks they are an expert and feels that they have something to offer, but they should qualify their speculation as just that.

[Camacha]

My point isn't that people shouldn't discuss possible causes/explanations. My point is that they should avoid making definitive statements about the cause. There may well be mitigating factors that only those close to the investigation know. It's great that every guy with 50 hours in a trainer thinks they are an expert and feels that they have something to offer, but they should qualify their speculation as just that.

Do not get me wrong, I totally agree with you. I cannot count the times I have asked people to back up their absolute statements (here and elsewhere), yet it invariably leads to harsh and hurt responses. I have said many times before: absolute statements require absolute proof.

[PakledHostage]

And I wasn't trying to be argumentative, honest. (Although I may have been a bit flippant.)

I really do think it is great when people want to discuss possible reasons for accidents. But we should qualify our speculation as just that and we should always be respectful of the fact that people die in aircraft accidents; they should not be "entertainment".

Edited August 17, 2015 by PakledHostage

[Vanamonde]

We're all just making conversation here, guys. Please don't mad at each other about it.

[vger]

A few years ago, the Bermuda Triangle was reported to say it was looking for a change of scenery.

I think I saw you on the news the other day! I love listening to guys like you. What I always wonder is why you self-appointed "experts" don't leave the aircraft accident investigations to the actual experts and avoid making definitive statements about the cause until it is actually known?

Without self-appointed experts, how could CNN talk a crash they know nothing about for the next two weeks?

[Camacha]

I really do think it is great when people want to discuss possible reasons for accidents. But we should qualify our speculation as just that and we should always be respectful of the fact that people die in aircraft accidents; they should not be "entertainment".

Sadly, neither of those points of view are respected by journalists. Empty content is generated and they mull endlessly over nothing, because they have nothing. Meanwhile, they invite experts to give their opinion on something where there is little evidence to base an opinion on. The media mill needs to turn, even without any fuel to run it.

No wonder people copy this behaviour, even the pros seem to think it is the way to go.

[vger]

No wonder people copy this behaviour, even the pros seem to think it is the way to go.

And people wonder why everything always ends up having to be regulated.

[PakledHostage]

No wonder people copy this behaviour, even the pros seem to think it is the way to go.

I am not so sure that I would be so generous as to call the typical media interviewee a "pro" (which ties back to my point from earlier). Just look at the typical guest's credentials when they are trotted out. Aviation is a broad field. Being an expert in one area does not make one an expert in all areas. A guest may be a retired 747 captain or an airline policy analyst, but they'll almost never be an NTSB investigator. The reason is that the NTSB investigator knows to keep his/her mouth shut until there is something to report. What may seem to be an obvious cause initially often turns out to be completely wrong in the final analysis.

[Camacha]

A guest may be a retired 747 captain or an airline policy analyst, but they'll almost never be an NTSB investigator. The reason is that the NTSB investigator knows to keep his/her mouth shut until there is something to report. What may seem to be an obvious cause initially often turns out to be completely wrong in the final analysis.

If it were just having a little fun until more is known (without arguing the taste of that fun), it would not be that bad. The problem is that the public, in aircraft crashes and many other types of incidents and issues, gets misinformed. At best, they misunderstand the subject at hand, at worst they start believing in and acting upon utter lies.

Just look at the first responses in this thread. Aircraft safety is horrible with all those recent crashes, right? In reality, things have never been safer. Yet these are the people that drive politics directly (by voting) or indirectly (by causing uproar), vote with their wallets, and more. We ruin society by allowing people to be informed by FUD, though I do not really see a viable alternative that is not rather scary in itself. The only real solution is educating people on how to be critical thinkers, but it seems years of that has not yielded enough of a result to prevent this.

[RainDreamer]

Blackbox found, along with the bodies of all 54 people on board: http://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/nation/2015/08/18/31908131/

A tragedy.

I was hoping some would be able to survive, considering that it was a twinprop plane going slow and low for landing, but crashing to mountains was perhaps too much.

[Camacha]

At least they recovered all the bodies. Though it is still hard on any family, not having a body to say goodbye to or not knowing what happened is possibly the worst.

[Sampa]

Blackbox found, along with the bodies of all 54 people on board: http://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/nation/2015/08/18/31908131/

A tragedy.

I was hoping some would be able to survive, considering that it was a twinprop plane going slow and low for landing, but crashing to mountains was perhaps too much.

The speed of a plane means nothing in an air crash.

[AlextheBodacious]

it's official. Southern Asia is another bermuda triangle.

[Nibb31]

it's official. Southern Asia is another bermuda triangle.

For that to be true, there would have to be a first Bermuda triangle.