A Thread for Writers to talk about Writing

[Sharkman Briton]

1 minute ago, Kuzzter said:

It's a storytelling technique, so I think I can answer it here. I use the Minmus greenscreen for shots of crew floating around in places on the ship that are considered pressurized, but aren't actually places where you can do an EVA. Process is to take the greenscreen shot, remove the background with a drawing tool, then paste the crew wherever they need to be.

Example:
 

  Hide contents

 

This...

plus this...

 

 

 

Oh cool. May I ask the drawing tool in question? Photoshop be expensive.

[Mister Dilsby]

5 minutes ago, Sharkman Briton said:

Oh cool. May I ask the drawing tool in question? Photoshop be expensive.

<--It's actually right under my name.

[Sharkman Briton]

1 hour ago, Kuzzter said:

<--It's actually right under my name.

Nice. I'll try it out. Does it work in the browser version?

[Sharkman Briton]

Okay, I've just started my Raven Interplanetary comic and I'm a bit moody over it, I think the background looks like rubbish and the text boxes look rubbish. And it took me quite a long time just to get 4 frames. Anyone have any tips for improving text boxes and the background? I'm rubbish at all the art stuff so I can't have awesome backgrounds like Kuzzter's comics and Plan Kappa. 

Also, how long does it take you comic makers to make a chapter? If any of you remember my old comics then you might be able to guess I used MS Paint to make them, I used Paint.NET to make Raven Interplanetary but I'm considering going back to paint. Thoughts?

I'm also thinking of scrapping this series entirely in favour of a more heavily modded one, and also because I have a sinking feeling that someone else used the name 'Raven Interplanetary'... You see my issue with comics is that I don't want to do it in Sandbox because that would be a bit of a plothole (I would have high tech parts straight away) and I hate career because of it's complexity. Science is the good spot inbetween but I still progress slowly. Does anyone have a tech tree mod that makes it more interesting? I've tried Unmanned before Manned but I hate the lack of parachutes at the beginning.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Sharkman Briton

[NorthernDevo]

Hello, folks.

You know, as I count it up on the calendar (and count on my fingers) I've been writing for public consumption (note that I did NOT say for profit) for sixteen years now - and still have no idea what I'm doing. I've supported published authors in their works, I've published others, I've smoothed the progress of yet others due to my professional role (I work in the publishing industry) but have never yet gone 'over the wire' to publish on my own. I've always valued the abilities of others over my own. Now, over the age of 50, I'm finally doing what everyone has told me to do for a couple of decades now and am firming up my first storylines for publication.

I have a couple of websites I regularly post on (at least, in those times when I'm on the Internet; my real life is not an easy one) and they provide me good support and assistance. I've been reading the fanfic threads of the KSP for three weeks now, and I'm totally blown away by the creativity, the  humour and sheer unmitigated joy of the stories you tell, and I feel reassured at letting you read my work. (Believe me; letting others - especially strangers - read my work is not at all comfortable. My PTSD from the war and other emotional issues have prevented me from offering my works.)

You are exactly the kind of creative, joyful and enthusiastic folks who I can trust to give an honest critique of my work to this point (I'll warn you; it has nothing to do with the Kerbal Universe) and to tell me if it a viable (and saleable) series.

If I can figure out how to do so, I'll append the story to this post. If not, I'll hem, haw, whine, whimper and cry until one of you fine folks shows me how to attach a file to a post.

Stand by...

OK, apparently you can't attach a .pdf to a post on this forum. Hmmm....

 

EDIT: OK, let's try this...

Another edit: I just tried hosting the file on a .PDF website; but it was so awkward and cluttered there's no point trying. Hmm. Are the days when I used to simply attach a .pdf file to a post gone now? Remember I haven't been online for about a decade.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2016 by NorthernDevo
My personal lack of familiarity with the modern Internet.

[KSK]

Yep - it's a good community here. Welcome aboard and glad it's somewhere you feel comfortable enough to share your work!

Silly question but is it a pdf you can extract text from or just a scanned image?

Starting a thread for it might be awkward if it's not a kerbal story but I'd happily read chunks of text sent by PM. Or drop me a note and I'll send you an email address you could use to send me the pdf.

 

Edited April 16, 2016 by KSK

[NorthernDevo]

Hi KSK; I was just confused...the last time I was regularly on the Internet (about a decade ago) being able to attach a .pdf to a post was a normal thing. I thought that was the same now...but apparently not. The point was to offer my writing to the group via attachment but if that's no longer an option, then whoops; my bad - best if we forgot the idea. Sorry if I bothered anyone.

[KSK]

It's no bother.

I'm fairly sure that some forum sites let you attach files to posts but sadly KSP isn't one of them. Even for image files you need to host them somewhere else - Imgur is a popular choice - and then link to them from your forum post.

And seriously, if you wanted to take this off-forum, I'd be happy to read your work and offer what critique I can. Wouldn't be any trouble.

[Sharkman Briton]

Hey @KSK do you have any ideas for my problems? (Scroll up)

[KSK]

Nothing earthshattering I'm afraid. My own efforts at a graphic novel page are lurking on this thread somewhere and it's rather less than stellar. If it's any comfort though, it took me an evening to put together (in Keynote) so I completely sympathise about the time it's taking you to do your comic. I guess it becomes easier and quicker with practice?

I think I remember Kuzzter saying that he has a library of kerbal images that he can draw on when he needs a particular pose or expression? I would think that would take a while to put together but would save a lot of time in the long run.

One thing I would say though is - go Sandbox. You don't need to use all the high end parts (the reader probably won't ever see the inside of your VAB) but you'll have immediate access to all the fiddly little parts you might need, without having to slog through the tech tree first. The tech tree isn't particularly logical when it comes to ordering parts by technology progression anyway - I don't think a ladder (for example  ) is an absurd thing to put on a very low tech spacecraft but it does take a lot of tech tree grinding to unlock them.

[NorthernDevo]

Oh! Thanks for the info; I didn't know what Imgur was, I'll look into it. FWIW, it's a text pdf; I'd be happy to send it to you, though I'd be happier sending it out as a general offering, I'm nothing if not a shameless self-promoter ...err... 'open to criticism'. I'll look up 'Imgur' and get back to you.

 

 

[Sharkman Briton]

27 minutes ago, KSK said:

Nothing earthshattering I'm afraid. My own efforts at a graphic novel page are lurking on this thread somewhere and it's rather less than stellar. If it's any comfort though, it took me an evening to put together (in Keynote) so I completely sympathise about the time it's taking you to do your comic. I guess it becomes easier and quicker with practice?

I think I remember Kuzzter saying that he has a library of kerbal images that he can draw on when he needs a particular pose or expression? I would think that would take a while to put together but would save a lot of time in the long run.

One thing I would say though is - go Sandbox. You don't need to use all the high end parts (the reader probably won't ever see the inside of your VAB) but you'll have immediate access to all the fiddly little parts you might need, without having to slog through the tech tree first. The tech tree isn't particularly logical when it comes to ordering parts by technology progression anyway - I don't think a ladder (for example  ) is an absurd thing to put on a very low tech spacecraft but it does take a lot of tech tree grinding to unlock them.

Okay thanks.  I decided to use Powerpoint online to make a picture instead of paint. And I now see why Kuzzter uses Powerpoint too. Merely a practice page.

[0111narwhalz]

@NorthernDevo
Google Drive tends to be a fairly painless hosting service. Drag'n'drop, set the sharing permissions to "anyone with link" and "can view," grab the link, and done.

[Ten Key]

On 4/3/2016 at 0:46 AM, KSK said:

It's amazing where that research can go. I never expected to need to read up on lumberjacking when writing a story about small green aliens and their space obsession.

On 4/3/2016 at 0:49 AM, Ehco Corrallo said:

I "accidentally" memorized the progression of firearms from matchlock muskets to the modern assault rifle, just while trying to figure out where a novel would be set...But lumberjacking? That's digression at its very finest  

On 4/3/2016 at 1:14 AM, CatastrophicFailure said:

Have to give this a nod. I started brushing up on some random history a few days ago, and now I know all about cog railroads in Switzerland. 

I stumbled onto the Transcontinental Airway a while ago. That was a happy find.

 

 

[KSK]

1 minute ago, Ten Key said:

I stumbled onto the Transcontinental Airway a while ago. That was a happy find.

Why am I getting the feeling that Bill has just spotted a new opportunity...  But that's probably a topic for the main thread.

[Ten Key]

2 hours ago, KSK said:

Why am I getting the feeling that Bill has just spotted a new opportunity...  But that's probably a topic for the main thread.

Well. . .maybe. But also, not quite. 

 

On 4/12/2016 at 8:20 PM, 0111narwhalz said:

I present to you: The Change.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated. 

Wow, this one brings back memories. The first semi-serious (fiction) writing I did in college was a very similar blurb on the old Starsiege forum. It also elicited my first serious bit of feedback, a short reply from the lead writer of the game. I don't have the actual note anymore, but I remember enough of it to paraphrase.

First, mind your formatting. You're flirting with "wall of text" here. . .even one sentence paragraphs need line breaks. Also, you might try using italics or even centering the "And then the Change came" parts. It'll make them stand out more.

Second, mind your word choice. For this kind of writing you want to use words that are both simple and formal. The contractions, for example, are informal and break up the flow. My mind always goes back to this when I want to switch into this writing "mode". And of course, this. Notice how the pacing changes in both of those, particularly the second one? It's easy to do that when it's a spoken narration, but you can also do this to an extent with the written word. Longer sentences, commas, and even longer words can slow the "pace" of a piece, and then a transition to shorter sentences and "faster" words can accelerate it for dramatic effect. What do I mean by "faster" words? "Velocity" has four syllables, whereas "speed" only has one. Some words linger, where others fly by in quick bursts. Just something to think about.  

 

On 4/13/2016 at 9:16 PM, Butterbar said:

I believe that "From Humble Beginnings" is in serious need of character development.  I've brought up some bits and pieces of a backstory (Jebediah is a combat pilot, Wernher is a captured scientist, Kirrim is a intelligence officer, .etc), but it needs to be connected more.  Does anyone know how to achieve this in a newspaper-style AAR?

I'd suggest reading World War Z. The entire book is written as a series of interviews, and the way all of the stories tie together is just fantastic.

 

11 hours ago, NorthernDevo said:

You know, as I count it up on the calendar (and count on my fingers) I've been writing for public consumption (note that I did NOT say for profit) for sixteen years now - and still have no idea what I'm doing.

The moment you think you know what you're doing is the same moment you stop learning.

I'm not going to pretend to be particularly internet savvy, but I'm not sure how well imgur is going to work for text. It's built for pictures, right? How is that going to work for multiple pages of text?

As mentioned, Google Drive is meant for this kind of file sharing. Dropbox is another web service that does this, though I've never used either. In both cases, you'd put your PDF file on their site, and then put the web link (URL) here on the forums so people could access it. 

You're also welcome to email it directly to me if you'd like feedback. That is, if you don't mind advice from someone who doesn't know what they're doing.   

Edited April 16, 2016 by Ten Key

[0111narwhalz]

5 hours ago, Ten Key said:

First, mind your formatting. You're flirting with "wall of text" here. . .even one sentence paragraphs need line breaks. Also, you might try using italics or even centering the "And then the Change came" parts. It'll make them stand out more.

Second, mind your word choice. For this kind of writing you want to use words that are both simple and formal. The contractions, for example, are informal and break up the flow. My mind always goes back to this when I want to switch into this writing "mode". And of course, this. Notice how the pacing changes in both of those, particularly the second one? It's easy to do that when it's a spoken narration, but you can also do this to an extent with the written word. Longer sentences, commas, and even longer words can slow the "pace" of a piece, and then a transition to shorter sentences and "faster" words can accelerate it for dramatic effect. What do I mean by "faster" words? "Velocity" has four syllables, whereas "speed" only has one. Some words linger, where others fly by in quick bursts. Just something to think about.  

Howzzat? Cleaned up the formatting, got rid of contractions, but the pacing seems appropriate. There were a few words that did stall it, though, and now they're changed. If there're any specific, glaring issues with the pacing, please PM me.

What about the others?

[NorthernDevo]

Hi, thanks for the help - I've heard of Drop Box; though just as a name. I'll give it a go. (Chuckle) I'm a total luddite; learning as I go. Of course, once I do figure this 'internet' thing out, one of two things will happen: 1) I'll go totally web native, and be streaming, videoing, and recording until people tell me to shut up (if I was any more of a ham, I'd oink) or 2) the Internet will blow up. Possibly as a direct result of 1).

Cheers!

 

Edited April 17, 2016 by NorthernDevo

[NorthernDevo]

OK, I'm not a hundred per cent this worked yet, but here is the URL Dropbox gave me.

This is just the intro; just a few pages. It needs to be edited some; I tend to firehose a whole bunch of words at a page and then start chipping them down bit by bit.

Warning: Strong language and violence; the first guy we meet does not go quietly into that sweet good night.

(Edit: Took the link down for a moment; It's been suggested the Mods might not permit linking to a story involving harsh language, so I'll check on mod approval.)

Just tested it, looks like it works.

A couple more notes: the first few pages (Science notes) will ultimately go at the end of the book; included at the front so people can see and argue about 'em.

If you like; I'll put up more.

Cheers!

Going to bed now; got the midnight shift.

 

 

Edited April 18, 2016 by NorthernDevo

[CatastrophicFailure]

6 hours ago, NorthernDevo said:

Warning: Strong language ...

 

 

Haven't read this yet, but just a caution that the forum mods may not take kindly to this part. They can be very particular about such things, or linking to them. 

[Ten Key]

On 4/16/2016 at 4:00 AM, NorthernDevo said:

You are exactly the kind of creative, joyful and enthusiastic folks who I can trust to give an honest critique of my work to this point (I'll warn you; it has nothing to do with the Kerbal Universe) and to tell me if it a viable (and saleable) series.

Odds are I'm going to ramble a little bit here, so I'm going to try putting my comments into a spoiler box so as to not clutter up the thread. We'll see how well that works. 

Spoiler

Odds are I'm actually going to ramble quite a lot.  I have a tendency to sort of feel my way through the editing process and that often leaves my thoughts more disorganized than I would like. But hopefully something in here will be useful. And I'm going to tack on my usual disclaimer. . .I can't tell you how you should do it. I can only tell you how I would do it, and that certainly isn't "the right way", or possibly even a good way. Use or discard the following as you see fit.

 

-- I had a character whose backstory involved a big dash of "being Lost" or "Into the Wilds" that's not too dissimilar from what's going on in your story. In this case, the planet was airless and tidally locked to its star, with a threadbare bit of civilization bunched up along the terminator. No magnetic field, so no compass. No GPS satellites. And no atmosphere to bend radio waves, so beacons were only effective to the horizon. And it was a fairly small world, so the horizon was much closer than on Earth. Wander away from the beacons and there was a very good chance you'd get lost and eventually succumb to the hard vacuum and freezing temperatures. But the tenor of the story was completely different from yours, and those that made their living on the surface had fallen back on the old art of celestial navigation. There was just something I liked about the idea of people in pressure suits using sextants and star charts to find their way around, like sailors on a regolith sea. In your case however, I might add a line about the Dark of Venus denying the miners even this basic option.

 

 

-- The harsh language doesn't work for me. Certainly it's appropriate for the situation, and it conveys to the reader the gender of the (perceived?) assailant, but something about it just rings false. The underlying fear doesn't seem to come through. Fear should be the primary emotion here-- the rage is just a mask. 

 

 

-- I love the idea of the Venerean night as being this sort of living, malevolent force. It sets up the isolation necessary for a good, old fashioned "Whodunit" in a fresh and interesting way. There's also some interesting options in the "we shouldn't be here" area, but that's for the next bullet. For the moment, let's talk about the part where Dixon buys the farm in the sky (or is it the hole in the ground?).

In 1963, the USS Thresher sank with all hands off the coast of Cape Cod. She was operating at a depth of about 2,400 feet following a loss of power when her hull failed. At that depth, the force of the water from even a small leak can kill. In this instance, the submarine imploded with enough force to ignite the air in her compartments. But the sub was crushed flat in about a tenth of a second, too fast for the human nervous system to register anything. 

The pressure at that depth is about 75 bar. 

Meanwhile, the atmosphere of Venus is thick enough at the surface to behave almost like a liquid. Even though the wind speed is low, the atmosphere is dense enough to pick up and roll pretty good sized rocks. And it's thick enough to really scatter a beam of light. So as you say, it's really dark, and the suit is being jostled by the surface winds, and maybe there are some rocks moving at the edge of your vision, or even some ripple effects in the light giving the illusion of things moving just beyond the edge of the light. And Dixon knows it's just a trick of the light, knows it, but as the suit's telemetry gives him a running play-by-play of exactly what's about to happen, and as the panic starts to set in. . .

And that's what's missing from the language. . .panic. Maybe even the hiss and spit of the empty radio channel starts to sound like laughter? 

And then, in a tenth of a second, the suit squashes flat and Dixon is gone. Maybe the suit's automatic systems are tough enough to survive briefly, and the same system that compensates for the pull and tug of the atmosphere keeps it upright for a few drunken steps before it collapses. And then you talk about the corrosive parts, the parts that quickly hide and eat all trace of the crime. Sound travels pretty far in a thick atmosphere, and I imagine the sound of a powersuit crushing would be pretty distinctive. It's up to you to decide if there are any microphones deployed that might hear it. 

 

 

-- You play on the money theme a lot (it feels like the term "hazard pay" should come up at some point), but the bit about "raping Venus' resources" seems a bit over the top. But then, maybe that's part of the reason they're there in the first place? Venus doesn't strike me as a great place to mine-- the atmosphere is too thick and the gravity well is too deep. But maybe you could throw in a blurb about the early days of mining on the Moon, and how the environmentalists threw a fit about being able to see the strip mines from Earth. So the mining companies relocated to Venus, where the thick atmosphere would hide whatever they did to the surface. But then, there was always the accounting for what the surface did to the miners in turn. 

 

 

-- Those powersuits need a name. One of the great thing about the Starsiege setting was the thick and colorful slang each planet developed. Venerean surface settlements were called "rat holes". The surface suits were "scarabs". And the phrase "good bye" had been replaced with "Check yer seals". (Something which has since snuck into at least one procedures check list. )  I have a hard time seeing a mining community like that not coming up with a slang term for those suits. . .even if it's just something along the lines of "monkey coffins". 

 

-- For someone whose nickname is "Bulldog", your cop seems awfully timid. Is there a reason for that that comes up later on? The bit about her augments is setting off alarm bells-- in general, any time I start to feel the need to justify something, there's a good reason for me to take a long, hard look at it.

 

-- There is an opportunity to give Crews and Detective Wilson a bit of common ground before they even meet, if you decide you want to do that. The bit with her checking off her gear as a way of centering herself. It would be easy enough to work in something similar in the part with Crews going over the powersuits.

 

-- On the whole, the writing style is very "tell". You're mostly telling the reader what is happening at each step instead of letting it come out naturally. That's not always bad-- it's a very efficient writing style and is great for conveying information or tone quickly. But it's not very interesting to read for long periods of time. Just a thought.

 

I think the story has "good bones" as it were, and is certainly worth pursing. As for if it's salable or not, I couldn't say. . .if you work in the publishing industry you know a lot more about that than I do. Certainly, detective novels seem popular these days. But there are plenty of good directions to take this and I'd say you're off to a good start.

 

 

[NorthernDevo]

15 hours ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

Haven't read this yet, but just a caution that the forum mods may not take kindly to this part. They can be very particular about such things, or linking to them. 

Hmm - I hadn't considered that; likely it would be OK, but I'd rather not start my stay on a new forum by annoying the mods...I usually prefer to wait a while before doing that (chuckle).

OK - I haven't had the opportunity to meet any of the mods here yet, I'll take down the link for the moment, go find one and ask if the attachment is OK or not.

Ten Key: Thanks so much for an absolutely fantastic response; exactly the kind of input and criticism I'm looking for. I hope you don't mind if I take a bit to prepare a response;  I just got off work and need to get some sleep - after I find a mod.

Cheers!

 

[Snark]

1 hour ago, NorthernDevo said:

Hmm - I hadn't considered that; likely it would be OK, but I'd rather not start my stay on a new forum by annoying the mods...I usually prefer to wait a while before doing that (chuckle).

OK - I haven't had the opportunity to meet any of the mods here yet, I'll take down the link for the moment, go find one and ask if the attachment is OK or not.

Hi folks,

Thank you for your concern.  Yes, I'm afraid that linking to "harsh" content is covered by the same rule as posting it directly.  There are plenty of great forums out on the internet for posting that sort of thing, but KSP targets a very broad audience, and the forums here therefore need to stay pretty "clean".

We appreciate your understanding, and hope you can find a suitable location for posting/discussing your work.

Thanks!

[NorthernDevo]

Just now, Snark said:

Hi folks,

Thank you for your concern.  Yes, I'm afraid that linking to "harsh" content is covered by the same rule as posting it directly.  There are plenty of great forums out on the internet for posting that sort of thing, but KSP targets a very broad audience, and the forums here therefore need to stay pretty "clean".

We appreciate your understanding, and hope you can find a suitable location for posting/discussing your work.

Thanks!

Ok, good job on CatastrophicFailure for the heads-up; sorry for an inappropriate offering. Well, there are 273 other pages to choose from; I'll find a more family-friendly one.

 

[ZooNamedGames]

I never knew there was a discussion for writers! This is what I've been needing for so long! As many of you know, I'm writing the "Recover Vessel" story (link in sig), and I've also been making story behind my Saturn Shuttle series. 

I've been writing for ages, for most of my life in fact. I've written combat action stories, comedies, and major historical novels. But I've never had a group to discuss my writing!