A Thread for Writers to talk about Writing

[ZooNamedGames]

1 hour ago, Ehco Corrallo said:

I'm sorry what? With the exception of grammar? Pedantic rant following: This is not poetry. There are a number of rules that can be broken in creative or informal writing, but you have to know the rules first!!! 

I know the rules, Ofc. I'm referring to speling erors or minor sentencing issues, Like in this sentence (minor exaggeration in my example). Most of the time I'm writing these at 11pm and am just typing through so sometimes you get these minor issues due to me being drowsy.

The story I seem to be hearing from everyone is that I simply need to adjust my intro and dive more in (granted I must ask, how many of you providing advice have actually read my story? How much?) and let the reader know what they're reading and I can do that (hesitantly).

[Commander Zoom]

I've read your intro, quoted here.  I find it clunky as heck and probably would not have kept reading past that.  I believe that KSK's proposed revisions improve it considerably, and strongly encourage you to heed his advice.

I also encourage you to set aside time for writing when you are at your best, rather than when you are falling asleep.  Surely your work, and your audience, deserve that?

All of the above is my opinion, of course.

If I do read the rest of your story/thread at this point, it will probably be as an editor and a critic, and I will probably not be merciful.

Edited June 13, 2016 by Commander Zoom

[Just Jim]

1 hour ago, ZooNamedGames said:

I must ask, how many of you providing advice have actually read my story? How much?

I try and keep up with everyone else on here... but honestly, it's sometimes hard to keep straight who's writing what.  

1 hour ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Most of the time I'm writing these at 11pm and am just typing through so sometimes you get these minor issues due to me being drowsy.

yeah... been there!  I usually proof read mine 3 times, and I still miss mistakes.

[Ultimate Steve]

Okay. First off, I admit I am not the best writer. By a very long shot. However, just for fun, I decided to do a story on a series of missions I was already doing...

Here is the said story. The beginning is a bit boring, but after all of the cobwebs got out of my head I came up with an idea for a storyline. It gets interesting at around part 4.

Any advice or tips for the future of that story? I'm trying to make it "not boring" but it might be coming off as "confusing."

I can't go back and rewrite the first chapters to make them less boring, though. I think I'm to far in to do that.

Thanks in advance!

[steuben]

2 hours ago, ZooNamedGames said:

I know the rules, Ofc. I'm referring to speling erors or minor sentencing issues, Like in this sentence (minor exaggeration in my example). Most of the time I'm writing these at 11pm and am just typing through so sometimes you get these minor issues due to me being drowsy.

The story I seem to be hearing from everyone is that I simply need to adjust my intro and dive more in (granted I must ask, how many of you providing advice have actually read my story? How much?) and let the reader know what they're reading and I can do that (hesitantly).

Careful grasshopper </chopsocky accent>. To answer the question, yes and all the way to what was posted at the time.

As for suggested reading, "The first five pages" by noah lukeman and "self-editing for fiction writers" by renni browne and dave king might be a place to start. Though if you go to the relevant section of your public library or book store you might find a few other books. 

As for 11pm, either local or relative, it isn't the best excuse. Click save and then look at it the next day. This isn't a term paper, or a newspaper deadline. An extra day or two won't break things, and may make things.

So this is where I'm going to ask, what is your writing process? For example, mine is I chew on various scenes and concepts. Write a draft in a notebook using a pencil. Transcribe it MS Word, making corrections for flow, gross grammar, and details. Run it through Word a couple of times to clear the spelling, grammar, and other such issues. The last step is to post it in the forums. Other people will have a different process, even allowing for similar medium.

Edited June 13, 2016 by steuben

[Just Jim]

6 minutes ago, steuben said:

Other people will have a different process, even allowing for similar medium.

hehehe... you're gonna love mine.   

I do each chapter spontaneously.  First I'll collect all my screenshots for a chapter while running the written parts thru my head, then sort and upload the screenshots into some semblance of order.  Once that's done, I write out the chapter on here.  I never, ever write it out before hand, and I often change things as I'm writing them.  

I am completely and utterly disorganized.... but I don't know if I could do it any other way.  

Edited June 13, 2016 by Just Jim

[max_creative]

7 minutes ago, Just Jim said:

I do each chapter spontaneously.  First I'll collect all my screenshots for a chapter while running the written parts thru my head, then sort and upload the screenshots into some semblance of order.  Once that's done, I write out the chapter on here.  I never, ever write it out before hand, and I often change things as I'm writing them.  

I just do stuff in ksp, then just make up the story really fast. I don't really plan stuff at all. I suppose it's probably easier than what @Just Jim is doing though, because I'm just launching stuff into orbit. No need for crazy Mun driving or getting teleported on top of the kraken.

[Mister Dilsby]

2 hours ago, ZooNamedGames said:

(granted I must ask, how many of you providing advice have actually read my story? How much?) 

Zoo, it sounds to me like you really don't want advice at all--or at least you don't want to hear anything that contradicts what you think you already know. I did read your story, past the point where I'd initially lost interest, because you asked for help. Then I spent some time writing posts to advise you. Some other people here did too. You responded by disagreeing with some of the comments, and now by implying that others could only have come from people who haven't read your story.  I don't recall that you've even thanked anyone for taking the time to try and help you. 

[ZooNamedGames]

34 minutes ago, Kuzzter said:

Zoo, it sounds to me like you really don't want advice at all--or at least you don't want to hear anything that contradicts what you think you already know. I did read your story, past the point where I'd initially lost interest, because you asked for help. Then I spent some time writing posts to advise you. Some other people here did too. You responded by disagreeing with some of the comments, and now by implying that others could only have come from people who haven't read your story.  I don't recall that you've even thanked anyone for taking the time to try and help you. 

I am listening and I'm trying to take in what I can.

As to having read, that question wasn't so much posed to you but others who began discussing it 5 days after my last post on the subject.

57 minutes ago, steuben said:

Careful grasshopper </chopsocky accent>. To answer the question, yes and all the way to what was posted at the time.

As for suggested reading, "The first five pages" by noah lukeman and "self-editing for fiction writers" by renni browne and dave king might be a place to start. Though if you go to the relevant section of your public library or book store you might find a few other books. 

As for 11pm, either local or relative, it isn't the best excuse. Click save and then look at it the next day. This isn't a term paper, or a newspaper deadline. An extra day or two won't break things, and may make things.

So this is where I'm going to ask, what is your writing process? For example, mine is I chew on various scenes and concepts. Write a draft in a notebook using a pencil. Transcribe it MS Word, making corrections for flow, gross grammar, and details. Run it through Word a couple of times to clear the spelling, grammar, and other such issues. The last step is to post it in the forums. Other people will have a different process, even allowing for similar medium.

My process is simple. I sit down, brainstorm an idea, sometimes a small one and then let it spiral out from there. I just keep drawing it up on the spot. It's one thing I enjoy about writing, it's as much of an adventure for me as it is the reader. Ofc I try to correct story line as I go along so it makes sense. I usually brief on the previous sections before hand so I know how to go.

[0111narwhalz]

Hopefully none of my English teachers read this...
My own process is as follows:
"Ooh! An idea!"
   Several hours elapse.
I then type it in a word processor (namely, Google Docs) line by line, and proofread as I go. There are no squiggly lines here!
After reading it over several times to ensure continuity, I fill my clipboard with it and let it loose upon the world.

Retroactive fixes of continuity errors are common with each new chapter, but usually restricted to the day or so that new chapter is posted. Outlines of plot are often nonexistent, but when they do exist, they reside solely in my brain. A dangerous place, to be sure.

[KSK]

Process? Oh boy that's a good question. I think I've spotted elements of mine in everybody else's posts so far!

For me it's a balance between having enough structure to hang the story off but not so much so as to put the whole thing on stultifying rails. Plus the good old writer's standby of a notebook by the side of your bed - or a slightly more modern day version of that anyway.

Most of the gross structure is in my head. A dangerous place for sure but also a very fluid one. Some of it escapes into chunks of notes on my computer. If I get an idea, that goes in the notes too, whether it be a bit of dialogue, a particularly good tie-in to earlier events in the story (IMO at any rate  ) or a plot update. I have more than a couple of 'emails to self' sent from work, with bits and pieces of First Flight in. All written on my lunch break, natch.

A bit of a mishmash all told but it works for me to the point where I've been juggling anything up to half a dozen plot lines over three years without too many egregious continuity errors - I hope! I know roughly where each of them are going and I know where they'll all end up - I've had the last paragraph written down for a long time now.   What I don't know is precisely how they'll get there. Even the major landmarks wander around occasionally and the detailed scenery between them is really just a mental 'here be stuff' scribble until it's finally written down.

Last note - if you're lucky enough to get them, the one huge advantage with serial writing are your readers. Sometimes they'll spot things or make connections within the story that you'll never have thought of. There's no need to write your story by committee but on the other hand there's no shame in borrowing suggestions that work either. Just make sure you acknowledge them - it's polite and more prosaically, it can really help build a community around your story thread. And speaking personally, nothing beats the buzz of readers 'getting' your story and speculating on where it's going next!

Anyway - sorry for the wall of text. Here endeth the lesson.

 

Edited June 14, 2016 by KSK

[Mister Dilsby]

4 hours ago, KSK said:

Last note - if you're lucky enough to get them, the one huge advantage with serial writing are your readers. Sometimes they'll spot things or make connections within the story that you'll never have thought of. There's no need to write your story by committee but on the other hand there's no shame in borrowing suggestions that work either. Just make sure you acknowledge them - it's polite and more prosaically, it can really help build a community around your story thread. And speaking personally, nothing beats the buzz of readers 'getting' your story and speculating on where it's going next!

Yes! I really enjoy the reader participation aspect of writing a serialized story. I tend not to borrow suggestions, as I'm writing with a very specific direction in mind which I most jealously guard  Where reader comments are most useful for me is in gauging how well the community is understanding the more subtle developments. For example when I started to introduce Kerbulus and the Kerbulans the reader comments helped me to adjust how obvious/not obvious I made subsequent clues in the developing mystery. I love it when lots of people are guessing and several are guessing right. It means that everyone's engaged, and that there's a reward (solving the puzzle) for those who invest the time to dig in and really understand the story.

[Just Jim]

6 hours ago, KSK said:

Last note - if you're lucky enough to get them, the one huge advantage with serial writing are your readers. Sometimes they'll spot things or make connections within the story that you'll never have thought of. There's no need to write your story by committee but on the other hand there's no shame in borrowing suggestions that work either. Just make sure you acknowledge them - it's polite and more prosaically, it can really help build a community around your story thread. And speaking personally, nothing beats the buzz of readers 'getting' your story and speculating on where it's going next!

Agreed, I love my readers!  I'm not sure who most of them are,... but who cares?  I love them all.  
I didn't start doing this just to get readers and views and all that, but I have to admit, it's somewhat addicting, and reading all the responses is great fun, and lets me know I'm doing this right.

Like @Kuzzter just wrote, I'm not going to totally change my storyline because of a suggestion, but I have had a couple really good ones that I tried to work in somehow.  And occasionally readers have pointed out stuff I completely missed, or something I hadn't considered that I also tried to work in somehow.

I've also have a couple that are really close to figuring things out, and a few that are totally wrong... and it's fun to watch.  

Edited June 14, 2016 by Just Jim

[KSK]

15 minutes ago, Just Jim said:

Like @Kuzzter just wrote, I'm not going to totally change my storyline because of a suggestion, but I have had a couple really good ones that I tried to work in somehow.  And occasionally readers have pointed out stuff I completely missed, or something I hadn't considered that I also tried to work in somehow.

Going a little off-topic but I figure you'll like this example of 'something I worked in somehow'.  One of my original kerbonauts was called Geneney (lifted from a game in-progress), nicknamed 'Genie' by Jeb. And somehow, even with that nickname, I utterly failed to make the connection from Geneney to Gene. 

Once it was pointed out by a reader, it was obvious that I had a rather nice tie-in to everyone's favourite indomitable flight director plus a backstory for another named KSP character, so needless to say, that's where the story went. But sheesh - sometimes there are none so blind that will not see.

 

Edited June 14, 2016 by KSK

[steuben]

Okay I can give. But it's time again to see how well I take.

The usual invisible grammar, flow details, etc. I know the short bits of flashback, to Mrs. Direc, and Simplain io may need to restructure to clearly break them out of the flow.

[0111narwhalz]

On 6/14/2016 at 1:09 AM, KSK said:

Sometimes they'll spot things or make connections within the story that you'll never have thought of.

Turns out I had no idea where I was going with Kerbal Future when I started, but that changed when I had a long conversation with my dad. He picked up lots of possible plot points and connections between the plotlines that I hadn't even contemplated. Now, I've built off of those and am running with the story that Future wants to tell. Good fun discovering your own plot.

Of course, Warped Stars has much more plot planned. Still not much, but it's there.

[Ten Key]

On 6/15/2016 at 0:49 PM, steuben said:

Okay I can give. But it's time again to see how well I take.

The usual invisible grammar, flow details, etc. I know the short bits of flashback, to Mrs. Direc, and Simplain io may need to restructure to clearly break them out of the flow.

It's a little rough, and you're right, the recollection portion is a problem. The bit with Simplain reviewing the documentation is good, but it doesn't fit where it is. Save it for later.

My brain keeps trying to turn "Direc" into "Director". I don't know if this is intentional or not, but if it isn't, you may want to alter the name a bit. 

 

-- All the talk, all the paper, all the dreaming, focused on him, on one action, on the very tip of the shovel. He chuckled. He considered what would happen if he did not put the shovel in. --

People would think he was a little daft and then get on with it? You're reaching a bit with the above, and I don't think it's working. 

 

--  He drove the shovel into the ground. He saw out of the corner of his eye a flag kerbal waving frantically. The workers in their equipment ignored him.  --

I don't understand what you're trying to do here. At first I thought maybe someone realized Direc was about to hit something with the shovel. . .a gas line or something. But then nothing happened?

 

 

The second section is better, but it reads like a wasted opportunity. Here you have time to slow down and do some character introduction while the pilots are circling overhead. Take it. You'll never have a better time to introduce Gus, and it's a great opportunity to do some quick exposition. 

Also. . .

The first six kerbalnauts were arriving. 

"There’s showers and food in the Astronaut Complex."

Pick one and stick with it.  

 

On 6/13/2016 at 3:10 PM, steuben said:

So this is where I'm going to ask, what is your writing process? 

The more I think on this, the more I want to say. But I need time to get all my ducks in a row, and I'd like to get some of my own writing done first. I'll circle back to this when I have a chance. 

[0111narwhalz]

I just published a new chapter of Kerbal Future, and I'd like some feedback. Most notably, I worry that I got too in-depth with the description of the ship, the nanites, et cetera.

[TotallyNotHuman]

Just throwing my story out there...

I've been posting chapters of my story to the Forums for quite a while now (a few days shy of a week), and would really appreciate some more constructive criticism.

It's based on @0111narwhalz's Kerbal Future so if you read that story, you should have no problem understanding the technobabble involved in my story.

0111narwhalz: THANK YOU for all the help and constructive criticism. I really appreciate it.

Link

[purpleivan]

On 13/06/2016 at 11:16 PM, Just Jim said:

hehehe... you're gonna love mine.   

I do each chapter spontaneously.  First I'll collect all my screenshots for a chapter while running the written parts thru my head, then sort and upload the screenshots into some semblance of order.  Once that's done, I write out the chapter on here.  I never, ever write it out before hand, and I often change things as I'm writing them.  

I am completely and utterly disorganized.... but I don't know if I could do it any other way.  

For most of my "work" (wow, that's a fancy word for my few muddled stories about kerbals kerballing in the kosmos) I tend to go ad-hoc as Jim does, writing something that seems "correct" for the events portrayed, but making use of accepted/familiar elements of the KSP universe (Jeb is brave/crazy, rocket dev on a shoe string budget etc.)

There are some exceptions to this, in that the more I write the more I develop my own canon to stick to (or at least steer in the direction of/use as a useful prop).

For the 2001 A Space Absurdity, most of the details of my writing (ok, hands up... the basis of this was written for me over 4 decades ago by some rather well known people) I had no idea of what what the characters would be like, the way events would be portrayed (e.g. HAL portrayed as a pre-schooler) until I had to make the decision on what these would be. For example the ending was just coincidental, with the imminent release of v1.1. of KSP I realised that I had an opportunity to tie in to this in a way that made sense in terms of the plot I'd developed so far, as well as the source material.

All of this with one overriding directive... always go for the funny.

Written after a bottle or so of wine, so all bets are off

[purpleivan]

On 08/06/2016 at 4:39 PM, KSK said:

Not sure how I missed this first time around.

I deliberately didn't give my Wernher an accent. At the time it was a cliché I wanted to avoid, although I've kinda mellowed on that point since. However, I very much wanted to get away from the von Braun comparison - since that comes with a fair few expectations about Wernher's background which I also wanted to avoid - and just write about plain old Wernher Kerman.

I'm new to this thread so I may not be aware of the details of what's being discussed, but if faced with an iconic (or close to it) character, I'd be tempted to subvert it in some way, so for example giving Wernher a strong accent, but one which is not expected (e.g. scouse, French,  southern USA) and then play on that for additional detail/humour. This would also allow for fleshing out the character with an unexpected backstory.

[SaturnianBlue]

How should I get back to writing The Asteroid Sentinels, considering how long i've been out from writing, as I was working on other projects and again ended up neglecting my story again... 

[Just Jim]

8 minutes ago, SaturnianBlue said:

How should I get back to writing The Asteroid Sentinels, considering how long i've been out from writing, as I was working on other projects and again ended up neglecting my story again... 

I think there are two ways you could approach it.  First, and easiest, is just pick up where you left off.  This forum is very friendly, and people understand having to take a break to do other things.  I don't think there would be a problem there.

The second is to think of a way to maybe jump ahead in your story's timeline, whether it be several days or a year or whatever, and then write in a sort of flashback to cover the important stuff that may have happened in the interim.

I just did the second option in Emiko, but for a slightly different reason... I got ahead of myself and seriously goofed up my plot timing. 
So to fix it, my last chapter jumped ahead about 30 days, and part of the next chapter will cover what happened during those 30 days... but now in the correct order. 

[CatastrophicFailure]

1 hour ago, Just Jim said:

I just did the second option in Emiko, but for a slightly different reason... I got ahead of myself and seriously goofed up my plot timing. 
So to fix it, my last chapter jumped ahead about 30 days, and part of the next chapter will cover what happened during those 30 days... but now in the correct order. 

Dontcha just love the spontinaity and crap-I-can't-take-it-back-ness of serially-released fan works? 

[Mister Dilsby]

22 minutes ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

Dontcha just love the spontinaity and crap-I-can't-take-it-back-ness of serially-released fan works? 

Honestly I can't believe sometimes I haven't gotten into a LOT more trouble. Fortunately one can often "play it for laughs", "wave one's hands" and escape the situation without the readers calling 'shenanigans' too loudly