Is Exceeding Limits Cheating?

[Moesly_Armlis]

For Extreme Hard Career Games:

Is building rockets outside that exceed the VAB limits of 18 tonne and 30 parts cheating?

Designing, engineering and assembling this vessel in a tier zero facility was not that hard.

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I am just starting to imagine what I could assemble if I never upgrade the launchpad, just upgrade R&D (for fuel transfer) and maybe the VAB (part count increase and basic action groups) and continued building outside.

There have been many "Is [x] cheating?".

Seriously is this what KSP is designed for?

Grinding for funds is less fun than exceeding the limits.

Please discuss because I:huh: have some more rocket building to be done.

[Majorjim!]

Dude, may I voice a slight note of caution on posting threads asking if something is 'cheating'. They are closed, quickly.

[Moesly_Armlis]

My intention is to have options for more exciting career game play.

The community seems undecided about career and some indicate that it can be boring or grindy.

[Chaos_Klaus]

it's only grindy if you don't know how to do things efficiently.

[montyben101]

Its a single player game, how can you cheat?

[hellblazer]

Maybe edit the title and body so you can substitute the word "cheating" for something else. As well use spell check for your poll.

We all play the game our own way. The choice is what makes it great.

Edited August 28, 2015 by hellblazer

[Korizan]

Well my first question is how are you building outside the VAB ?

My second is simply.

There are no rules in KSP except the ones you place upon yourself.

So you decide if you are cheating in your game and I decide if I am cheating in my game.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Korizan

[magico13]

If you're building things that are "too big" by combining smaller ships together outside of the editor then that's not cheating, that's engineering brilliance! If you're circumventing the limits through some obvious glitch, then that would be cheating. If you're patient and creative enough to build a huge ship manually, rather than paying the funds for the upgrades, that's rather silly (the first upgrades are pretty cheap) but definitely not cheating in my book.

[Moesly_Armlis]

The vessels are being assembled outside using docking port juniors.

The upgrade cost within an extreme hard career are substantial.

The best solution for funds is to repeat this contract many times.

Do you see that look on Gene's face. It is "Here we go again"

If you're building things that are "too big" by combining smaller ships together outside of the editor then that's not cheating, that's engineering brilliance!

The term Voltronning was coined by another caveman.

Edited August 28, 2015 by MoeslyArmlis
Voltron

[theend3r]

I thought this was behind us...

[SpacedCowboy]

I'm not clear on how you are doing this. Where are you launching from?

[Thomas988]

I hate these "cheating" threads. Everyone plays differently, and anything that lets the player have fun is completely valid.

[GoSlash27]

it's only grindy if you don't know how to do things efficiently.

I can vouch that MoeslyArmlis definitely knows how to kick off a career efficiently

Is voltronning together overweight ships on the pad "cheating"? No. But if I were involved in coding, exceeding the mass limit of the pad would result in it's destruction, requiring funds to rebuild it.

FWIW, I don't think that building overweight ships is really useful for avoiding the grindiness of early career. Fun, but not really helpful. As we have established in the Caveman challenge, the early career objectives can all be met within the weight limit of tier zero facilities. We can get science from the Munar surface and even transmit from the surface of Duna without upgrading any facilities or exceeding the limits.

So while this is cool and even gives capabilities that can't be achieved with bone- stock facilities... I don't think doing this will allow players to spin up their careers any quicker.

Best,

-Slashy

[Moesly_Armlis]

I'm not clear on how you are doing this. Where are you launching from?

I have used the basic launch pad (paved dirt mound).

Currently I am assembling and launching anywhere on Kerbin. Pictured is my rocket assembly transport plane that landed itself and the cargo(rocket booster core with Docking Port Juniors) on top of the mountain.

An additional tool was also brought over and is designed to erect the rocket booster core and connect additional boosters.

I hate these "cheating" threads. Everyone plays differently, and anything that lets the player have fun is completely valid.

It is true I am having loads of fun.

Edited August 28, 2015 by MoeslyArmlis

[Greenfire32]

If the game puts a limit on something (ie: rocket size on a tier 1 launch pad) and a player finds a way around that limitation without going to tier 2, then I would file that under "exploits."

I don't necessarily think all exploits should be considered cheating, but they are definitely on that "fine line" that separates legit achievements from those that are....not so much.

Exploits kind of have to be handled on a case-by-case basis for me. For example: Can everyone easily do it? Does it make the game better? Does it serve a purpose at all? If it makes the game better, allow it. If it makes the game worse, disallow it. If it's so hard to replicate that only "pro" players would be able to pull it off, disallow it. If everyone can do it because it's easy, then does it make the game better? Yes: allow, No: disallow.

so on, so on

For this case in particular, since the goal of career mode is to provide a more challenging experience and one of those challenges is building smaller rockets that can still get to space, I would say that yes, this is cheating. But if you're playing on a save where you use other cheats anyway (infinite fuel, hack gravity, etc) then no. Run with it.

/opinionz

[Moesly_Armlis]

But if I were involved in coding, exceeding the mass limit of the pad would result in it's destruction, requiring funds to rebuild it.

... I don't think doing this will allow players to spin up their careers any quicker

The only problem is now I am building anywhere and thereby the lithosphere would need to be coded.

The other way to "voltron" is in orbit and that would be even more legit.

This is intended for an extreme hard career in which funds are hard to come by and results in grinding science from space contracts.

Getting the science to unlock the docking port junior looks feasible and once that is had then the E.H. career would really take off as the need to grind funds becomes less of an issue and going interplanetary becomes an option.

Edited August 28, 2015 by MoeslyArmlis

[keeper]

Hold on, am i right in thinking that was done by "launching" seperate vessels - and then somehow docking them together after launch?

Did you dock them together? You didn't actually exeed the limit in the VAB, and you are technically exeeding the limit on the launch pad, but you've assembled it together there?

Seems legit. No exploit, no bug. Enjoy

[AbacusWizard]

It looks to me like you're simply launching small pieces one at a time and assembling them in orbit... very very low orbit.

Maybe we could call it a "constant acceleration trajectory with lithonormal assist"?

[waterlubber]

Dude! Don't you realize that if you play the game on a computer that gets more than 30 fps is cheating? It's an unfair advantage over console players with weaker computers!

All sarcasm aside, I would if there was a reason the part count was high, like stock limitations

[Torquemadus]

I've experimented with hardcore custom difficulty settings in career mode. It can be a very interesting challenge. The key is to tweak the settings to make the game hard, but still playable and fun. Maxing out building upgrade costs makes them effectively unobtainable, forcing the player to make do with the tier one buildings for the duration.

If I understand the OP correctly, this "cheat" involves unlocking a whole load of tech, such as docking ports, undercarriage and airplane parts. Gathering enough science to unlock all of that stuff on hardcore custom difficulty takes a long time. In fact, I'm not sure if this is doable without upgrading at least some of the buildings to undertake the more complex missions required.

[SAI Peregrinus]

My poll determined that cheating isn't cheating, though of course vegetables (including bacon obviously) was far more popular than either "yes" or "no". Therefore, cheating is bacon vegetables.

[Boomerang]

Flippin' hell...

I don't know whether I hope this is trolling or sincere anymore.

[keeper]

If you're building things that are "too big" by combining smaller ships together outside of the editor then that's not cheating, that's engineering brilliance!

thats what i meant to say, nicely done.

[razark]

Simply put, it's a single-player (for now) game. I get to decide what's cheating and what isn't.

Therefore, if you aren't playing the game exactly like I am, you're cheating.

[Renegrade]

In-orbit assembly is definitely not cheating; NASA was considering that as one of the alternatives for the Apollo program. The people who brought up the point that the launchpad is only rated for 18t at tier 1 (0?) have a point though.. it really should be collapsing if more weight is put on it...and soft-launching a many-ton rocket in the field is probably not the most realistic scenario...