[1.11.2] Standard Propulsion Systems - v1.0.6 (4/20/2021)

[nothingSpecial]

Hello your tanks and rcs are very interesting.

Suggestion, if you will add engines and pods start with 1,875 ones.

Tanks would look better with domes, like the ones from Color Coded Canisters (by NecroBones).

Isn't better way would be to start with three basic types (vacuum-stage, lifter-stage and "jack of all states, master of none" - Poodle-alike, Mainsail-alike and Skipper-alike) and make them rescaled for each scale? And later on, if it's necessary, differenciate their models.

Because the both the tanks and the RCS currently provided by this mod are already fill alll the niches and can be used with pruning all the analogues from other mods, and this approach will be consistent. In effect this mod will therefore be an ultimate resource saver.

[Starbuckminsterfullerton]

Hi, I love these RCS!

I pruned most of the other RCS from other mods, and then made a MM patch to enable RealFuels integration, as well as a 1/2 power version of the thrusters.

Patch is here.

Thanks! Always great to have mod cooperation, I'll link your patch in the title post so people can find it.

Man, you really should play up the unique aspects of this parts pack. It isn't just a drop-in texture replacement.

I see two unique parts, things I haven't seen elsewhere but always wanted.

(1) The 3-way RCS block. I hate using 4-way thrusters at corners because that means firing alongside a hull, potentially towards other things. It doesn't matter for gameplay, but it just looks horrible.

(2) The 1-way 90* RCS block. Plenty of parts mods have surface-mounted single RCS thrusters, but I haven't seen one that is perpendicular to the surface.

Glad you appreciate it, and yeah I thought some different RCS arrangements might be fun, and tried to fill every niche.

Hello your tanks and rcs are very interesting.

Suggestion, if you will add engines and pods start with 1,875 ones.

Tanks would look better with domes, like the ones from Color Coded Canisters (by NecroBones).

Thanks. The tanks actually do have domes, they might be harder to see because the tank liner is the same color grey (any suggestions? I'm thinking primer green) and the center connector makes the shape less pronounced.

I definitely plan on 1.875m engines and everything else, although I hadn't though of a pod that might be good. How many crew would you think?

Isn't better way would be to start with three basic types (vacuum-stage, lifter-stage and "jack of all states, master of none" - Poodle-alike, Mainsail-alike and Skipper-alike) and make them rescaled for each scale? And later on, if it's necessary, differenciate their models.

Because the both the tanks and the RCS currently provided by this mod are already fill alll the niches and can be used with pruning all the analogues from other mods, and this approach will be consistent. In effect this mod will therefore be an ultimate resource saver.

Ah, someone sees the big picture! Engines are coming, and they will be almost exactly as you say. Because of the way I work all sizes will probably drop at once. The three types you mention are in the works, as well as a special fourth type, but they will have unique models from the outset.

[nothingSpecial]

Ah, someone sees the big picture! Engines are coming, and they will be almost exactly as you say. Because of the way I work all sizes will probably drop at once. The three types you mention are in the works, as well as a special fourth type, but they will have unique models from the outset.

Oh, okay. That's good to hear. Just don't overwhelm yourself, I'm really looking forward to use your mod when get back to KSP. And maybe in some future to use it as a complete alternative to Squad partfolder.

Also, considering pods.

Can progression be like (in brackets other stock crewed parts for reference and maybe as ideas for you for the further future?)

Size - Pod - (Landing can - Crew can - Science lab) - Analogue

1.25 - 1 - none - 2 - none - Mercury

1.875 - 2 - 1 - 3 - 1 - Gemini

2.5 - 3 - 2 - 4 - 2 - Apollo

3.75 - 4 - 3 - 5 - 3 - Orion

That will make smooth and linear progression.

UPD

To clarify: I do not propose use the real spacecraft as a base for pods' models, just show them like a niche: simplest capsule for initial launches, cramped yet advanced capsule for various tests that has a room for scientist or engineer, multipurpose capsule that is appropriate for short trips just itself and for basic station resupply, and full-blown modern interplanetary-grade vehicle. The style is, of course, up to you.

(Well, it's not like in the world of cones and headlights you can easily avoid making capsule that resembles any other capsule... Just stick to what pleases you the most.)

Edited October 26, 2015 by nothingSpecial

[Kirondoll]

Thanks. The tanks actually do have domes, they might be harder to see because the tank liner is the same color grey (any suggestions? I'm thinking primer green) and the center connector makes the shape less pronounced.

I definitely plan on 1.875m engines and everything else, although I hadn't though of a pod that might be good. How many crew would you think?

.

If you can remove the black spot in the middle would be great.

[Starbuckminsterfullerton]

I think I can safely say everything is working fine in 1.0.5, parts mods weren't really affected by the update. This was just a quick compatibility check, I'll release a proper update once the interstage adapters are done... they're getting close!

[Psycho_zs]

That is a great set!

Do you plan making heavy versions of R3 and R3A2 blocks?

[MatterBeam]

While I find the current progress pleasing, I do have three important points to make:

-However large your variety of fuel tanks and adapters, they can be entirely replaced by procedural parts for unbeatable freedom of size and shape.

-The use of multiple parts in your project reminds me that if you use part model switching using FireSpitter, you'll be able to come up with something similar to B9 Aerospace parts: One part in the parts menu, but that can switch between different models for greater flexibility using a VAB part menu.

-I strongly suggest you start on engines next. You only really need 6 models: 3 different type of reaction chamber to simulate the different rocket engine types (vacuum, lifter and hydrolox), and 3 different types of nozzle for various pressures. The rest is just multiple .cfg files with part resizing, or writing in Tweakscale compatibility. I can help with that.

[White Owl]

I love the sensible variety of RCS designs! The 3-way, 45 degree model is now my go-to RCS port for just about everything.

I would love it even more if there were a similar variety of RCS ports in aerodynamic shapes for spaceplanes. That would be better than fantastic.

[gtvpo]

I, too, would love to see the 1.875 meter engines. I think they'd go great in the 45 science bracket, since having parts large enough for a single-stack lunar mission would be great for part count.  Especially if there were a payload fairing adapter (Re-scaled AE-FF1 with a structural adapter down to 1.25m?) to go with the parts. Could be cool! 

 

If you do make all the parts for 1.875, be sure to remember the important bits, like the fairings, docking ports and reaction wheels. Even if there isn't a capsule, those will be useful and probably pretty simple to make (Considering that it's a rescale and copy-paste of a stock part away. But then again, what do I know, I've never made a mod for KSP! :P)

 

Anyway, I can't wait to see what this turns into!

[Starbuckminsterfullerton]

On 2/3/2016 at 11:22 AM, gtvpo said:

I, too, would love to see the 1.875 meter engines. I think they'd go great in the 45 science bracket, since having parts large enough for a single-stack lunar mission would be great for part count.  Especially if there were a payload fairing adapter (Re-scaled AE-FF1 with a structural adapter down to 1.25m?) to go with the parts. Could be cool! 

If you do make all the parts for 1.875, be sure to remember the important bits, like the fairings, docking ports and reaction wheels. 

Thanks! The question of where to place things in the tech tree is something I've been thinking about; as you may have noticed the 1.875m tanks appear a bit early, so I'm very open to suggestions of where things should go. I don't play a lot of career anymore- I've completed the tree so many times already I mostly just test mods in sandbox- so it helps to have some outside input. 

Fairing adapter isn't something I'd thought of, maybe I'll come up with an MM patch to rescale one of the stock ones. I do intend to address all those important bits too, but they're further down the line, and you've seen how slow I work. I will get there though!

In the more imminent future, the interstage adapters are coming. they're modeled and textured, I just need to pull them through unity. Blame both school and the holiday for the delay. 

[Starbuckminsterfullerton]

Excuse the double post, noticed some replies I missed...

On 1/18/2016 at 8:27 PM, Psycho_zs said:

That is a great set!

Do you plan making heavy versions of R3 and R3A2 blocks?

By heavy do you mean with double nozzles like the R8/R12?

On 1/18/2016 at 2:29 PM, TruthQuark said:

While I find the current progress pleasing, I do have three important points to make:

-However large your variety of fuel tanks and adapters, they can be entirely replaced by procedural parts for unbeatable freedom of size and shape.

-The use of multiple parts in your project reminds me that if you use part model switching using FireSpitter, you'll be able to come up with something similar to B9 Aerospace parts: One part in the parts menu, but that can switch between different models for greater flexibility using a VAB part menu.

-I strongly suggest you start on engines next. You only really need 6 models: 3 different type of reaction chamber to simulate the different rocket engine types (vacuum, lifter and hydrolox), and 3 different types of nozzle for various pressures. The rest is just multiple .cfg files with part resizing, or writing in Tweakscale compatibility. I can help with that.

Can't argue with you on procedural tanks, but one of the goals of this mod is to use as few plugins as possible. If you'd like to see these tank models in procedural form I'm onboard, but I have zero experience with ProceduralTanks so I'll need some help. Same for model switch. I do plan on InterstellarFuelSwitch integration once the engines are done to avoid duplicating the same model. 

Yeah, engines are really overdue; I've been short on time for way too long. We're on the same page as far as models go, although I am going to differentiate them with semi-unique models. 

On 1/24/2016 at 9:24 PM, White Owl said:

I love the sensible variety of RCS designs! The 3-way, 45 degree model is now my go-to RCS port for just about everything.

I would love it even more if there were a similar variety of RCS ports in aerodynamic shapes for spaceplanes. That would be better than fantastic.

Thanks! I tried to imagine useful formations, so that's nice to hear. I hadn't considered aerodynamic models, but that's a good idea since spaceplanes often need the more unusual thruster arrangements. I'd have to think of a way to systematically model the shells, but it's possible.

[White Owl]

3 hours ago, Starbuckminsterfullerton said:

Thanks! I tried to imagine useful formations, so that's nice to hear. I hadn't considered aerodynamic models, but that's a good idea since spaceplanes often need the more unusual thruster arrangements. I'd have to think of a way to systematically model the shells, but it's possible.

I suggest simplicity is the key to flexibility of design. Maybe a simple flattened dome shape, with uniform apertures for the individual nozzles? Slightly heavier than the non-streamlined versions, but high temperature resistance. Basic light grey with black ports.

[Psycho_zs]

FYI, made some RCS conceptual classification:

[theJesuit]

Hey this is great and  hope to use only these in my next career post Vens revamp.  Haven't downloaded as my pc doesn't seem to cope with the adding and removal of mod files currently (or running secondary installs) and I need to complete my goals before I start afresh!

So, whilst you do have pics is there a comparison between these and the stock tanks?   On that note I do prefer to have set sizes for tanks as I'm not a fan of procedural parts!  The fuel switch is useful though.

Do the adapters have fuel in them?

If 5m tanks are in here then possibly having a 5m heatshield would be useful.

Looking forward to utilising these.  Thanks!

Peace 

[gtvpo]

Man, these RCS blocks need to be stock. I suck at docking but having access to the additional accuracy and power is so useful. And that 90* angle linear 7 is the most useful thing I've seen in a long time for Munar/Minmur (Minmur? Whatever, minmus) landers.

Edited February 7, 2016 by gtvpo

[OrbitalBuzzsaw]

It doesn't work on Mac modded install

[Starbuckminsterfullerton]

On 2/5/2016 at 1:23 PM, Psycho_zs said:

FYI, made some RCS conceptual classification:

That's a great chart! I like the idea of spaceplane specialized blocks, and others have brought up streamlined parts, so it's something I'd like to do.

On 2/5/2016 at 2:28 PM, theJesuit said:

So, whilst you do have pics is there a comparison between these and the stock tanks?   On that note I do prefer to have set sizes for tanks as I'm not a fan of procedural parts!  The fuel switch is useful though.

Do the adapters have fuel in them?

If 5m tanks are in here then possibly having a 5m heatshield would be useful.

I don't have any images of the tanks next to stock on hand, but I'm in the process of updating the textures so when I take new pictures maybe I'll include some. For reference though, all tank heights are an exact multiple of the stack diameter, by either .5, 1, 2, or 4. These are also the same size as the equivalent KW tank if (it one exists).

Adapters do have fuel in them!

I don't plan on a 5m heatshield; I might do a 1.875 and a .0625 once the crew parts are done, but that's a long ways off and I don't have any 5m crew parts planned that would justify a heatshield.

On 2/7/2016 at 5:07 PM, gtvpo said:

Man, these RCS blocks need to be stock. I suck at docking but having access to the additional accuracy and power is so useful. And that 90* angle linear 7 is the most useful thing I've seen in a long time for Munar/Minmur (Minmur? Whatever, minmus) landers.

Thanks! 

18 hours ago, OrbitalBuzzsaw said:

It doesn't work on Mac modded install

Really? I make this on a Mac, and test every release beforehand with some common mods running. If you give me some more information I'll do what I can to help.

[MrMeeb]

I really like the different types of RCS port. Just wondering if they all use the same texture, for RAM reasons

Also, have you thought of using Firespitter model replacer? Not entirely sure how it works, but it could be useful for cutting down on part clutter. You could then have like 3 different sizes (I can see three different sizes in the imgur album), in the parts list, and swap between the models in the right click menu. Just a suggestion from a partaholic  

[redbeard]

The RCS blocks really do fit so many niches I come across when building things, so much so that after my recent fresh install of KSP, this mod become one of my first after I once again succumbed to the addictive allure of not staying stock. Another thank you for the great mod.

[Starbuckminsterfullerton]

Update v 1.0.3

Added interstage structural adapters.

 

This update has been too long coming, but it's finally done. There are some bugs, but I am currently unable to fix them and so am releasing what I have for now. Engines are on hold until I know what has changed in 1.1 / Unity 5.

Edit: 

@MrMeeb Yes, all parts within the same category share a texture. Regarding Firespitter, the goal right now is to avoid introducing any plugin dependencies, but when ISFS integration happens I may re-evaluate that stance.

@redbeard Thanks! And nothing wrong with improving on stock. 

Edited March 28, 2016 by Starbuckminsterfullerton

[Jansn67]

Any chance to step that up to 1.1? (Specially the RCS.)

[Starbuckminsterfullerton]

On 4/24/2016 at 10:13 AM, Jansn67 said:

Any chance to step that up to 1.1? (Specially the RCS.)

Definitely. Unfortunately I can't get even stock 1.1 to run for more than a minute or two without crashing, so I'm waiting for the hotfix before I can test stuff out and declare it officially ok. Unofficially, word is that 1.1 hasn't done anything to the modules I'm using here, so you'll probably be ok running the 1.0.5 version in the meantime. 

Edited April 27, 2016 by Starbuckminsterfullerton

[Jansn67]

Thanks for the answer.

Will try them, if me too get 1.1 and 1.1.1 run again without massive errors. :/

 

[Starbuckminsterfullerton]

Update v 1.0.4

Added streamlined fuel tanks (Soyuz style)

Updated fuel tank textures

Rebalanced all fuel tanks (feedback appreciated)

 

With this update I'm declaring the LF/O tank set complete, and proceeding with the engines. 

[Bluebottle]

Loving the look of those streamlined tanks - they'll work well for my part clipping.