Ultimate Steve Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 9 minutes ago, mikegarrison said: Boeing did say it was safe. It was NASA that after two months could not internally agree whether it was safe (enough) or not. This was very clear from the statements made by NASA in the press conference. Interesting, I don't remember getting that vibe, I'll have to rewatch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegarrison Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 1 minute ago, Ultimate Steve said: Interesting, I don't remember getting that vibe, I'll have to rewatch. Please do. Two points of data. First, Boeing publicly declared that they had evaluated it as safe enough earlier last week. Secondly, one of the NASA guys specifically addressed the issue that different parts of NASA disagreed on the decision, and stated that work was going to have to be done inside the NASA teams to reconcile the team members. (He stated that this has happened before and will happen again, and I know from personal experience that this does happen inside of engineering organizations. People come to different conclusions from the same data, and sometimes feel certain for years later that the wrong call had been made.) Bill Nelson made it very clear that it was NASA who made this call, against the call made by Boeing that the return was safe enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codraroll Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 19 hours ago, darthgently said: If Starliner comes home without issue on the 6th it will be a good thing and NASA will merely have been prudent. But if it has issues related to the seal problem that could have posed a crew danger NASA will be fully vindicated. They really didn't have much choice from my view Rather, the choice they made was the one that gave them the least backlash regardless of the outcome of Starliner's descent. Even though there are risks associated with leaving the astronauts up there for six more months, those risks can be viewed, at least by the public, as unrelated to that of the Starliner question. Even if they had to evacuate the station before Crew-9 gets there with the extra lifeboat capacity, I doubt NASA would face a lot of public outrage over the choice of sending away Starliner. That would be an "unforeseeable accident" (even if NASA had long ago mapped out the risks of it happening) and simply bad luck that it occurred during the same three-week window that Butch and Suni had no return ride available. If any of the station modules were in the middle of severe or accelerating failure, it might have been different. But as it stands, I think most people consider it an acceptable risk to undock Starliner long before Crew-9 comes along. Or in other words, the capsule had been delayed in its departure for so long that risking the ride would seem more reckless than another six months facing the "background risk" of space travel. Of course, this is how I view it as a layman, and my interpretation of how the media would spin it. An investigating report after a catastrophic or risky evac mission from the ISS might be a lot more damning to the careers of those involved in the decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthgently Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 14 hours ago, mikegarrison said: Every source, including NASA themselves, says they made the call. That means they put it on themselves. Denying that is weird. Of course they made the call, that is their role. I'm pointing out that they made the only rational call they could have made given the cards they were dealt. Just my opinion, but hardly uncommon, abnormal, or weird if you ask around. Boeing can come back from this but the first step is admitting they have a problem and stop pointing elsewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthgently Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 4 hours ago, Codraroll said: Or in other words, the capsule had been delayed in its departure for so long that risking the ride would seem more reckless than another six months facing the "background risk" of space travel. This points to another thing, Boeing was the main factor in the delay initially as they requested time to test things out. NASA wasn't "taking a long time to make a decision" so much as acquiescing to Boeing's desired timeline. Maybe I'm perceiving it wrong but that is how I remember things happening from the sparse squirts of information that came through. And to be clear, I think Boeing has as much potential as it ever had in both aero and space, but clearly they need an internal reckoning with their failing leadership and internal culture before they can "get better" again. This isn't crystal ball stuff to anyone but the hardcore "Yay Boeing, right or wrong" crowd. I truly hope Boeing swallows the medicine necessary for its ills and regains its former standing that it had earned over decades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minmus Taster Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 Starliner is back at it: https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/09/starliners-speaker-began-emitting-strange-sonar-noises-on-saturday/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthgently Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 2 hours ago, Minmus Taster said: Starliner is back at it: https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/09/starliners-speaker-began-emitting-strange-sonar-noises-on-saturday/ An amateur radio operator in Gran Fenwick, New Hampshire did an interesting signal analysis on the audio here: https://t.ly/Vw1ea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minmus Taster Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 28 minutes ago, darthgently said: An amateur radio operator in Gran Fenwick, New Hampshire did an interesting signal analysis on the audio here: https://t.ly/Vw1ea An ad saved from this thing you think of as 'humor'. Must have taken a bit of Starliner's luck before pre-launch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthgently Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 22 minutes ago, Minmus Taster said: An ad saved from this thing you think of as 'humor'. Must have taken a bit of Starliner's luck before pre-launch. I think the content is particularly applicable to the Starliner situation. I'm trying to be optimistic. Listen to the words, darn it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AckSed Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 3 hours ago, Minmus Taster said: Starliner is back at it: https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/09/starliners-speaker-began-emitting-strange-sonar-noises-on-saturday/ Running it through the translator... Activating machine sympathy module... Spoiler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 (edited) Mir is pinging it from the abyss of ocean. Just a few of people is aware that the Spektr module was equipped not just with the missile torch detector and target launcher, but also with sonar and torpedo tube. P.S. Or they have a problem... Spoiler Note: Next time take the Spoiler Looks like now they need to deorbit the whole station, as the whole Earth may be under attack. Edited September 2 by kerbiloid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AckSed Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 Update on the noises: Quote NASA issued the following explanation on Monday for the strange noises: "A pulsing sound from a speaker in Boeing’s Starliner spacecraft heard by NASA astronaut Butch Wilmore aboard the International Space Station has stopped. The feedback from the speaker was the result of an audio configuration between the space station and Starliner. The space station audio system is complex, allowing multiple spacecraft and modules to be interconnected, and it is common to experience noise and feedback." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exoscientist Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 8 hours ago, AckSed said: Update on the noises: Not likely. Probably the same as what happened on the first Chinese manned spaceflight in 2003: Who or What Is Knocking On His Spacecraft? | NASA’s Unexplained Files. https://youtu.be/ioJsRQ53IEM?si=xc4Arfx6ZadjG7lg It’s believed to be differential expansion due to thermal differences. Bob Clark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthgently Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 40 minutes ago, Exoscientist said: Not likely. Probably the same as what happened on the first Chinese manned spaceflight in 2003: Who or What Is Knocking On His Spacecraft? | NASA’s Unexplained Files. https://youtu.be/ioJsRQ53IEM?si=xc4Arfx6ZadjG7lg It’s believed to be differential expansion due to thermal differences. Bob Clark It is coming through the Starliner speaker not acoustically through the hull. It is a possibly a combo of a bad shield ground and EM noise among the various ISS modules and docked craft. If differential expansion is involved it is probably because it is affecting a flaky ground connection in the Starliner audio wiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exoscientist Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 3 hours ago, darthgently said: It is coming through the Starliner speaker not acoustically through the hull. It is a possibly a combo of a bad shield ground and EM noise among the various ISS modules and docked craft. If differential expansion is involved it is probably because it is affecting a flaky ground connection in the Starliner audio wiring. Actually, they can’t know that because the astronauts are not actually in the capsule. They are on the ISS hearing the sounds through speakers on the capsule. Then the speakers can be picking up sounds actually in the capsule. Bob Clark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthgently Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 9 minutes ago, Exoscientist said: Actually, they can’t know that because the astronauts are not actually in the capsule. They are on the ISS hearing the sounds through speakers on the capsule. Then the speakers can be picking up sounds actually in the capsule. Bob Clark No. The original released audio from NASA clearly tells us Butch went into Starliner and captured the sound from the speaker in Starliner for the ground operator to hear. You did go to the original source, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exoscientist Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 16 minutes ago, darthgently said: No. The original released audio from NASA clearly tells us Butch went into Starliner and captured the sound from the speaker in Starliner for the ground operator to hear. You did go to the original source, right? Ok I’ll take all look at the original reporting. Bob Clark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthgently Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 9 minutes ago, Exoscientist said: Ok I’ll take all look at the original reporting. Bob Clark It is in the video tater posted upthread. Clear as day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 4 hours ago, darthgently said: No. The original released audio from NASA clearly tells us Butch went into Starliner and captured the sound from the speaker in Starliner for the ground operator to hear. You did go to the original source, right? Yeah, it's coming from the speakers. Also, undocking is Friday, and I'm told it's a night landing at White Sands. I'm hoping it's coming from the NW, as that increases my chance of seeing it from my patio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubinator Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 2 hours ago, tater said: Yeah, it's coming from the speakers. Also, undocking is Friday, and I'm told it's a night landing at White Sands. I'm hoping it's coming from the NW, as that increases my chance of seeing it from my patio. Wish they'd land stuff in the Great Lakes once in a while so I could see it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 I just read some transcript of a Starliner press conference... Notice the RCS on the CM, vs the RCS facing forward/laterally on the SM? White (covers still on, never used), vs black (covers blown off by use)? After undock, the SM will move the vehicle away, then do the deorbit burn, after which is is staged off. Apparently at some point there is a hotfire test of the CM RCS, the question is if it is done before or after SM separation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthgently Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 1 hour ago, tater said: I just read some transcript of a Starliner press conference... Notice the RCS on the CM, vs the RCS facing forward/laterally on the SM? White (covers still on, never used), vs black (covers blown off by use)? After undock, the SM will move the vehicle away, then do the deorbit burn, after which is is staged off. Apparently at some point there is a hotfire test of the CM RCS, the question is if it is done before or after SM separation. After leaving the ISS ellipsoid? I hope. The fact that they are still testing thrusters reinforces my sense NASA made the right call We haven't seen the thruster issue result in a thruster being stuck on yet. That would be too interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 2 hours ago, darthgently said: After leaving the ISS ellipsoid? I hope. The fact that they are still testing thrusters reinforces my sense NASA made the right call We haven't seen the thruster issue result in a thruster being stuck on yet. That would be too interesting This is the same as the last flights, I guess I didn’t know the systems were entirely separate and did not operate together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 Go for undock per FCTs at MCC. Stream starts soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.